Five members from Canada’s 2018 world junior team (Hart, McLeod, Dube, Foote and Formenton) told to surrender to police, facing sexual assault charges

[Ciao]

to be charged you first need to be arrested

or at least thats the way i thought it went

You can be charged without being arrested, and you can be arrested without being charged.

I expect that the players in question will attend the London Police headquarters, where charges have likely already been laid, and released on their own recognizance or a promise to appear in court. An arrest is probably not needed.

 

[The Hanging Jowl]

Here is my absurd take ... but there is another side I don't see mentioned too often

Let's say the absolute most beautiful girl in the world is 100% consenting, sober and dying to sleep with 8 guys. This is her dream.

7 of my friends are in the room and fulfilling her 100% consenual fantasies. Her dreams come true.

They need an 8th guy to join in.. have sex with her, film it, take turns ...

They text me!!!

Hey Czechboy! We got the most beautiful girl in the world here.. all 7 of us are having sex with her, taking turns and filiming it. BUT, she really wants an 8th guy to join in... come on over.. we are in room 10 at the Sheraton. She is sober and consenting. Bring a condom and your phone.. it's going to be great!

My reply - f*** NO

I don't want to have sex with 7 of my buddies. I don't need to see 3 of them have sex with a girl while I record. I don't want to stand beside 2 friends while 5 have fun. This just isn't for me. Having sex with 1 woman while 7 buddies are watching doesn't seem appealing to me in any way, shape or form. I am probably not man enough or something. Guilty or not, I'm still shocked that 8 guys wanted to be in that room in anyway, shape or form.lol

I'll see myself out!

That's definitely another angle to this. I wouldn't take that offer even for money. Gross. I guess when you're a young athletic star you're in a different world but then that just means I'm glad I was never a young athletic star.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Supreme Court of Canada upholds acquittal in sex assault case revolving around consent

A key piece of evidence in the trial was a video recording of the complainant saying she consented to the sex

www.theglobeandmail.com

 

[DEANYOUNGBLOOD17]

for me it is amusing this thread is still open. The bigger picture is, it looks more and more hockey canada tried to cover up what happened and interfered with investigations. Now, the people who did this have been fired. But Hockey Canada needs to be punished for this but not many on this site want to have an honest discussion about it

The people in charge at Hockey Canada at the time of the hush money have been let go and replaced with new people with a mandate not to act in that manner in the future.

How do you propose to punish Hockey Canada which is not a person but an entity without punishing countless of innocent people unnecessarily.

Please put your pitchforks away leave the mob mentality at home and don’t start a riot of do - gooders trying to right your morale concerns.

The wheels of justice are taking care of the situation.

 

[DEANYOUNGBLOOD17]

I'm sorry that the "why" has been explained several times - most prominently in the 1st post of this thread - and you keep asking but why not?

Really, it boils down to this: because the admins here said no. That's it. That's all that really matters. They don't owe you, me or anyone else here any further explanation, they don't owe you, me or anyone else where further justification. If they decide to expand on it, awesome - but they could just as easily stand by because we said no and you don't get to keep saying but other places are doing it, why can't we?

HF isn't other places, HF doesn't control what other places do. HF has taken a stance on this matter. You can dislike it from here to Helsinki and back, but at the end of the post HF has said "this is what's going to be allowed, this is what's not going to be allowed" and you can either accept it or you can stand up in your chair, scream I'M GONNA PRESS MY LUCK! and find out how long it takes before you hit a Whammy.

I think the moderators are doing a great job.

To all those posters that keep badgering the mods and begging them to change their minds.

I say this;

1)Your constant insistence to get your way and trying to force your views and ways are causing us and the moderators a lot of duress.
2) No means No!
It does not mean maybe later,

3) Ever since this thread opened all the moderators have been forced to drink large quantities of alcohol.

So even if the moderators were to consent to allow the names of the players to be used / or allow posters to speculate….. that consent would then be suspect the next day (or 5 years later when London Police reopen the investigation) and you would all be banned from HFB for life … unable to discuss hockey ever again on HFB and give up the millions of dollars that the owners are paying you to do so.

 

[BurnabyJoe7]

These were very young men and not scholars of informed consent.

You don't have to be a scholar of consent to know it's not okay to rape somebody.

Some of these comments are just absurd.

Be careful what you say. Remember all those people ripping Trevor Bauer… not guilty. Remember Jake Virtanen… not guilty. Wait until we find out what really happened before commenting.

Trevor Bauer has somewhat disproved one of several accusations from different people. If you're being accused of sexual assault from 3 different people you can read between the lines that the guy is probably a huge POS and that there are likely others that aren't coming forward.

People will say all the accusers are colluding against the guy and that is possible, but the chances are slim. That's probably why he still isn't signed by a MLB team.

 

[GeoRox89]

Supreme Court of Canada upholds acquittal in sex assault case revolving around consent

A key piece of evidence in the trial was a video recording of the complainant saying she consented to the sex

www.theglobeandmail.com

What a messed up case. That Supreme Court ruling reads a lot like challenge reviews in football where if the trial judges had convicted instead the SC likely would have upheld that ruling as well

Basically reads that in their judgement that this original trial judges had explained their reasoning well enough, there were no errors in the law to overturn and that they defer to the trial judges in the matter of fact finding

That the original judgement was 2 to 1 does suggest there was convincing evidence on both sides and this was not a clear cut easy decision

It is rather troubling that they included the woman’s physical response as part of their reasoning when there are documented instances of sexual assault victims (with convicted offenders) also physically responding during an assault because they are not actually in control of their body’s response to sexual stimuli regardless of their mind’s response to it

 

[oilexport]

I find it hard to believe we have gathered 8 sex predators and magically put them on one team.

That's not what we have here. Whatever happened is obviously over the line, to what degree, will come out.

One female victim and some boys who went too far, and are gonna pay a monster price.

 

[saskriders]

I find it hard to believe we have gathered 8 sex predators and magically put them on one team.

That's not what we have here. Whatever happened is obviously over the line, to what degree, will come out.

One female victim and some boys who went too far, and are gonna pay a monster price.

It is easy to believe. A toxic culture, and a bunch of boys getting treated like gods since they are kids. Seems like the perfect environment to breed people that act like this.

 

[oilexport]

I don’t know about that. Find it hard to believe it was a wildly unusual situation that in my high school the guys on the WHL team were by and large the most entitled arrogant twats in the whole school and only one of them was even good enough to be drafted

It’s not hockey’s fault but to suggest that the elite high school athletes don’t have a tendency to be entitled and full of themselves is an interesting take

Did you hear this from the 100 top shelf girls in that high school, that wanted to attend and meet these elite athletes ?

Works both ways ?

Just so ya know, the entitled hot girls, who work hard themselves to stay in shape and eat right, feel entitled at a WHL party.

Hope the victim is the main focus for the upcomming mess with legalities. I hope they can minimize the trauma. She is gonna have the hardest time of all of them. I think they should leave her out of court. Some of the others will lose 10's of millions.

 

[GeoRox89]

Did you hear this from the 100 top self girls in that high school, that wanted to attend and meet these elite athletes ?

Works both ways ?

Just so ya know, the entitled hot girls, who work hard themselves to stay in shape and eat right, feel entitled at a WHL party.

All you had to do was ever be in the same room or general area with them to see how they acted and interacted with people. Of course a good percentage of the hottest girls in the school were also arrogant. Two wrongs don’t make a right and two arrogant twats don’t make magically turn the pair into respectful down to earth people

 

[HighAndTight]

I don’t know about that. Find it hard to believe it was a wildly unusual situation that in my high school the guys on the WHL team were by and large the most entitled arrogant twats in the whole school and only one of them was even good enough to be drafted

It’s not hockey’s fault but to suggest that the elite high school athletes don’t have a tendency to be entitled and full of themselves is an interesting take

Everything's on a spectrum homie. Absolutes and things masking as absolutes do you no favors.

 

[Nut Upstrom]

Did you hear this from the 100 top shelf girls in that high school, that wanted to attend and meet these elite athletes ?

Works both ways ?

Just so ya know, the entitled hot girls, who work hard themselves to stay in shape and eat right, feel entitled at a WHL party.

Hope the victim is the main focus for the upcomming mess with legalities. I hope they can minimize the trauma. She is gonna have the hardest time of all of them. I think they should leave her out of court. Some of the others will lose 10's of millions.

When you exhaust all your breath trying to minimize what these young men did and excuse away any repercussions they should have coming their way, it rings rather phony when you dole out some false sounding concern for the young woman. You've Cleary chosen the dirty side here, trying to spit shine the mud is like putting lipstick on the proverbial pig. Its really not a good look and it's pretty obvious to all that you have far less concern for the woman than you do for the "boys."

 

[Coaches Coroner]

I find it hard to believe we have gathered 8 sex predators and magically put them on one team.

That's not what we have here. Whatever happened is obviously over the line, to what degree, will come out.

One female victim and some boys who went too far, and are gonna pay a monster price.

ah yes infantilize the legal adult males who appear to have quite plausibly done a sex crime.

 

[Ciao]

It's a little early for the jury on this board to render a verdict when it hasn't yet heard any evidence.

Guilty? Not guilty? Either outcome is quite possible on each and every count.

 

[HBK27]

I find it hard to believe we have gathered 8 sex predators and magically put them on one team.

That's not what we have here. Whatever happened is obviously over the line, to what degree, will come out.

One female victim and some boys who went too far, and are gonna pay a monster price.

Yeah, this is certainly something that gives me some pause regarding this case. We have 5 to 8 guys - all with extremely promising futures that they've been working towards their whole lives, who probably don't have much difficultly getting girls - and they're all going to decide to sexually assault someone and risk throwing that all away?

Also from the little we do know about the case, the alleged victim did not explicitly tell them "stop" or say "no", etc. (or at least that was not reported publicly released details thus far).

That doesn't mean a crime wasn't committed - obviously there's more than a decent chance there was if the police are moving forward with charges.

It just doesn't scream to me a case of all these guys knowingly committing a sexual assault and all cool with it, repercussions be damned. Maybe something that got out of hand where they pressured her to go further than she wanted and might not have realized that she really wasn't OK with it? Then again, the whole situation of having a bunch of guys in one room doing the things that are being alleged is really creepy/odd/disturbing to begin with even if she did consent to everything. There was also surely a ton of alcohol involved, which clouds judgement especially for teenagers, so who knows?

 

[Seanaconda]

If a full scale WW3 broke out, hell, make it full global scale nuclear war, if would be labeled politics here and the last admin standing would be hammering people here until the servers would be blown out.

Just to keep your expectations in perspective.

Nah ! Once games got delayed it would be hockey related so we would be able to talk about it

 

[SnowblindNYR]

I will say I'm glad the politics of this have been kept to a minimum unless it's mods cleaning things up. I expected a back and forth between all men are predators and all men do nothing wrong ever posts and thankfully that's been kept to a minimum.

 

[Lions67]

Already solved. The Italians said no.

And the Italians would be WRONG!!

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

Yeah, this is certainly something that gives me some pause regarding this case. We have 5 to 8 guys - all with extremely promising futures that they've been working towards their whole lives, who probably don't have much difficultly getting girls - and they're all going to decide to sexually assault someone and risk throwing that all away?

Also from the little we do know about the case, the alleged victim did not explicitly tell them "stop" or say "no", etc. (or at least that was not reported publicly released details thus far).

That doesn't mean a crime wasn't committed - obviously there's more than a decent chance there was if the police are moving forward with charges.

It just doesn't scream to me a case of all these guys knowingly committing a sexual assault and all cool with it, repercussions be damned. Maybe something that got out of hand where they pressured her to go further than she wanted and might not have realized that she really wasn't OK with it? Then again, the whole situation of having a bunch of guys in one room doing the things that are being alleged is really creepy/odd/disturbing to begin with even if she did consent to everything. There was also surely a ton of alcohol involved, which clouds judgement especially for teenagers, so who knows?

It can still be sexual assault even if the person doing it wasn't knowingly doing it.

As you point out, legal distinctions aside the whole thing is creepy odd and disturbing. I'd like to believe that if you took a sample of young men that age from the general population and put them in that environment, the chances of it turning into a sexual assault go way down. Otherwise we have a serious societal problem if young men at a party see nothing off about walking into a room where a guy is having sex with a girl and being invited to have sex with her too.

 

[HighAndTight]

It can still be sexual assault even if the person doing it wasn't knowingly doing it.

As you point out, legal distinctions aside the whole thing is creepy odd and disturbing. I'd like to believe that if you took a sample of young men that age from the general population and put them in that environment, the chances of it turning into a sexual assault go way down. Otherwise we have a serious societal problem if young men at a party see nothing off about walking into a room where a guy is having sex with a girl and being invited to have sex with her too.

Well you have to think a generation of dudes grew up on Porky's and things like that.

I honestly thought the way you did society wise until you stumble upon, the amount men who like to be dominated and abused and assaulted(semi socially acceptable but everyone knows about it) but also the weirdly large group of women who have rape fantasies or have been raped and now long for their attacker(which very few people know about).

I'm not at all saying that in response to what is happening to the woman in this case, just commenting off the societal aspects of the poster I quoted.

I trust your average person less and less.

 

[HBK27]

It can still be sexual assault even if the person doing it wasn't knowingly doing it.

As you point out, legal distinctions aside the whole thing is creepy odd and disturbing. I'd like to believe that if you took a sample of young men that age from the general population and put them in that environment, the chances of it turning into a sexual assault go way down. Otherwise we have a serious societal problem if young men at a party see nothing off about walking into a room where a guy is having sex with a girl and being invited to have sex with her too.

100% agree.

This is also a different generation that is growing up with access to lots and any type of pornography at a young age as soon as you get a phone. Maybe that plays a part in wanting to even be involved in something like this, even if it is consensual - really don't know as it is well, well beyond my wheelhouse. Something I'm concerned with though as the father of two young teenage boys.

 

[Ezekial]

When you exhaust all your breath trying to minimize what these young men did and excuse away any repercussions they should have coming their way, it rings rather phony when you dole out some false sounding concern for the young woman. You've Cleary chosen the dirty side here, trying to spit shine the mud is like putting lipstick on the proverbial pig. Its really not a good look and it's pretty obvious to all that you have far less concern for the woman than you do for the "boys."

These people always show such concern for these types "promising young men" but are also the first to throw stones at a different type of 19 year old criminal.

 

[93LEAFS]

These people always show such concern for these types "promising young men" but are also the first to throw stones at a different type of 19 year old criminal.

The way these guys are put on a pedestal and idealized is a major part of the problem. This happens at high-level High school and NCAA sports, happens with young players on top soccer teams in Europe etc. The oh, it's just boys being boys, and there usually good kids because they are athletic is a trend that needs to stop. Because, in some ways they are products of their environment (not in this case, if guilty they crossed serious lines), but they are put on a pedestal and anything bad they do is excused. This Don Cherry myth of them being these hard working, respectful kids needs to end. I went to London, Ontario for University, and met tons of Knights players. They were not much different than the rich entitled frat boys at a wealthy university. Maybe a bit dumber, and obviously way more athletic. There background tends to have much more in common with rich kids at a good university, than that of this blue collar farm-boy overacheiver.

 

[Hank Plank]

If only there was some world wide source where I could go to find these player's names. I know someone at HF knows but they aren't talking. Damn!

They have the internet on computers now.