Five members from Canada’s 2018 world junior team (Hart, McLeod, Dube, Foote and Formenton) told to surrender to police, facing sexual assault charges

[Strangle]

Both the NHL investigation and the Hockey Canada appeal process regarding the suspensions will be hushed up until after any criminal proceedings.

They don't have to hush it up, but the NHL and Hockey Canada prioritize minimizing scrutiny of their own rather than minimizing rape enabling culture.

It's pretty clear that any improvements will come despite these two institutions, not because of them.

This is kind of what happens, though.

Marvel didn’t fire Kang until he was convicted. Having someone accused of something puts any organization in a tough spot, until they’re actually charged and arrested at least.

Even then, until the courts decide what they decide about who did what and when, you just have to act as if everyone is innocent.

I don’t know much about what hockey Canada did or didn’t do, I just remember people stepping down. I don’t know the details.

But if it’s a situation like the Blackhawks, where your bosses tell you “worry about hockey, we will handle this stuff” I don’t really know what else anyone is supposed to do.

If my boss at work told me they knew about something and would handle it, especially when legal would be involved, it’s reasonable to take them at their word.

If that kinda makes sense

Otherwise, the league or org can’t really do anything until the case is decided

 

[Ianturnedbull]

The mod warning is understood. For the longest time I named all the players. There's a lot of guilt to go around when it is all said and done...

 

[Martin Skoula]

I'm sorry that the "why" has been explained several times - most prominently in the 1st post of this thread - and you keep asking but why not?

Really, it boils down to this: because the admins here said no. That's it. That's all that really matters. They don't owe you, me or anyone else here any further explanation, they don't owe you, me or anyone else where further justification. If they decide to expand on it, awesome - but they could just as easily stand by because we said no and you don't get to keep saying but other places are doing it, why can't we?

HF isn't other places, HF doesn't control what other places do. HF has taken a stance on this matter. You can dislike it from here to Helsinki and back, but at the end of the post HF has said "this is what's going to be allowed, this is what's not going to be allowed" and you can either accept it or you can stand up in your chair, scream I'M GONNA PRESS MY LUCK! and find out how long it takes before you hit a Whammy.

Exactly, you are here to provide free content for this website and click on credit card phishing scam ads. We should be thankful we’re even allowed to do that in the first place, not make these absurd demands.

 

[Ciao]

Yeah, there is. Otherwise, major media outlets like TSN would be saying it explicitly.

Of course, if you're absolutely certain of their identity, you should (FA) name them here and now ... and then (FO) see how it goes.

HFB rules don't allow us to name them on this site.

 

[mr figgles]

The speculation and little tidbits I read about this case reminds me a lot of the Tupac case

Damn. I couldn’t even finish watching that. This case is very similar. She says flat out that she wasn’t okay with the other guys.

 

[Ciao]

So not allowing the players names:

(First my usual disclaimer - I am a lawyer, but only qualified to practice law in Alberta. Defamation/libel is something I studied in school but not an area I practice in)

I suspect that if HF Boards had a bunch of posts naming the players, then got sued by said players, HF Boards would probably win a defamation lawsuit. But you want to know the easiest way to win a lawsuit? Avoid getting sued in the first place! So I can't really blame the Mods for being overly cautious here. And I don't know who owns HFBoards (a whois query comes back to GoDaddy as proxy). It probably makes a few bucks from ads, but I can't imagine it's all that much, and getting into a bunch of lawsuits can go through money FAST.

Truth is an absolute defence to defamation.

If some HF posters name these dudes, there's no exposure unless what they've said is false.

Not much chance of that if all they do is say who they think is under investigation.

The bigger problem is it won't stop there. Once names are named -- and they will be soon -- there might be very little restraint as to speculation that has no resemblance to the truth. Huge exposure to liability for that.

I'm interested to see HFB's publication policy unfold after February 5, when the names of the players are likely to be part of the public record. What then? If they allow comment on the investigation and any legal proceedings, it may be very, very difficult to establish boundaries.

 

[Ciao]

All I know is that, if my personal leave was resulting in the rumor mill suggesting I was culpable in a crime for which I was not responsible, you can sure as hell bet either me or my lawyer would be releasing a statement clarifying the situation pronto.

Furthermore, as a litigation lawyer with 39 years of experience, including criminal defence work up to and including the Supreme Court of Canada, I never have and never would express my own opinion on my client's guilt or innocence. My own opinion is irrelevant, and I'm not my client's mouthpiece.

If a lawyer vouches for the veracity and/or innocence of one client, then what happens in the next case? If a similar endorsement is not given, does that then suggest the lawyer's opinion is not as favourable?

The evidence needs to speak for itself.

 

[hfman]

Gross.


I think being charged is different than being arrested, no?

to be charged you first need to be arrested

or at least thats the way i thought it went

 

[Rubi]

If only there was some world wide source where I could go to find these player's names. I know someone at HF knows but they aren't talking. Damn!

 

[BurnabyJoe7]

We have reports of evidence. I haven't personally seen the videos, but we have transcripts of the video and the texts. If you want to ignore all that and use pure speculation to convict them before there's even a trial, go right ahead, but don't pretend you have some moral high ground here.

You do realize you're just doing the opposite. You're using speculation to say they're innocent without seeing any of the evidence.

 

[KevinRedkey]

You are amazingly out of touch with where the world is on the topic of consent. There are a multitude of free legal forms available online that people print out and mutually execute prior to having sex to ensure they do not run into problems later on.

Sexual Consent (Contract) Form

A sexual consent form is a written agreement that relays in clear terms the intent of two consenting adults to participate in sexual acts together. The form allows the couple to enter the date and time the activity is to occur and list the exact permissions made by the consenting party.

eforms.com

Just because something exists, doesn't mean it's common or statistically relevant.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

"Whomever" the "five" are, since we can't say, deserve all the punishment coming to them.

I hope they rot in jail.

 

[nowhereman]

As long as your denial is demonstrably true -- and provable with admissible evidence.

This afternoon, someone else was ordered to pay more than $83-million for his false denials of a sexual assault, in addition to the $5-million an earlier jury had already awarded against him.

A cautionary tale for truth-deniers, indeed.

Better to say nothing at all than to speak a lie.

Furthermore, as a litigation lawyer with 39 years of experience, including criminal defence work up to and including the Supreme Court of Canada, I never have and never would express my own opinion on my client's guilt or innocence. My own opinion is irrelevant, and I'm not my client's mouthpiece.

If a lawyer vouches for the veracity and/or innocence of one client, then what happens in the next case? If a similar endorsement is not given, does that then suggest the lawyer's opinion is not as favourable?

The evidence needs to speak for itself.

What does any of this have to do with what I said?

The police have asked the 5 players involved in the incident to surrender themselves. If I am not one of those five players, having had nothing to do with the incident, and my personal leave unfortunately coincides with this recent news, I am making a personal statement to clarify the situation. We will find out who those five names are anyway.

Multiple lawyers have already spoken on behalf of other players on the team, denying that they were involved. If I'm not one of the accused, then there should be no issue with me or my lawyers clearing things up.

 

[Honour Over Glory]

Again, I'm not defending the behavior, all I'm arguing is that there is a big difference between immoral and illegal. She gave consent. Several times, and also confirmed she was sober. Should these young men face public scrutiny for a questionable behavior? Perhaps. Should they be facing jail time after doing their due diligence to ensure she was a willing participant? It could be argued that they should not.

Ah yes the poor athlete excuse. So tiring to see this crap. With the info that's out there and still take this stance is so ignorant.

 

[Ciao]

What does any of this have to do with what I said?

The police have asked the 5 players involved in the incident to surrender themselves. If I am not one of those five players, having had nothing to do with the incident, and my personal leave unfortunately coincides with this recent news, I am making a personal statement to clarify the situation. We will find out who those five names are anyway.

Multiple lawyers have already spoken on behalf of other players on the team, denying that they were involved. If I'm not one of the accused, then there should be no issue with me or my lawyers clearing things up.

You're quite right.

I'm just pointing out that lawyers for the five players in question are unlikely to issue false denials.

I do understand that's not what you were suggesting.

 

[Golden_Jet]

You do realize you're just doing the opposite. You're using speculation to say they're innocent without seeing any of the evidence.

No, the poster is using the judicial system, where innocent until proven guilty.

 

[BurnabyJoe7]

No, the poster is using the judicial system, where innocent until proven guilty.

You didn't follow the quote trail and that's not the argument. Their original quote said all evidence points to her giving consent:

All the evidence points to her giving consent both before and after. What absolutely SHOULDN'T be a thing is the retroactive retraction of consent.

 

[oilexport]

These were very young men and not scholars of informed consent.

 

[shaner8989]

Be careful what you say. Remember all those people ripping Trevor Bauer… not guilty. Remember Jake Virtanen… not guilty. Wait until we find out what really happened before commenting.

 

[DEANYOUNGBLOOD17]

Well yes, you should always have consent. But we’re talking about whether or not it’s normal to pull out a phone and ask for video consent.

Talking only on if it is normal to use your phone to document consent.

Hell yes!

Always film police interaction!

Always film any altercation or situation where you may be liable or misconstrued to have acted incorrectly.

Dash cams … great invention

Body cam great policy!

Victim mentality is a true thing .

Oh because a man is bigger and stronger they automatically have the burden of proof.

Not just in a sexual assault / but in almost all situations.

Oh, I agree with this completely.

Hockey Canada will wind up with a lesser punishment from the IIHF than Russia, even though the Russian players themselves didn’t do anything, while Hockey Canada covered up a rape case.

What did the current 17 year old and 18 year old Canada in players wanting to play in future wJC do ...... to be punished by having team Canada banned from future tournaments as a penalty to hockey Canada.

The executives who authorized the hush payment have all ready been punished and lost their positions in hockey Canada.

Please put down your pitch forks and stop the mob mentality.

 

[Ezekial]

These were very young men and not scholars of informed consent.

Maybe they should've been more learned and they wouldn't be looking down the barrel of a sexual assault charge.

I didn't rape anyone when I was 19.

 

[oilexport]

Maybe they should've been more learned and they wouldn't be looking down the barrel of a sexual assault charge.

I didn't rape anyone when I was 19.

You were not a target for 10 million people to analyze and dig through court cases to see if it was over the line or not.

A few drinks, stupid conduct by young males and females in a bar setting, can ruin your lives. Hope the victim is OK.

 

[DEANYOUNGBLOOD17]

I'd legit be curious at what point a man says no.lol

most beautiful consenting girl in the world me and 1 friend.. 2 friends... 3 friends... 4 friends

These guys got to 8.lol

Obivously, situation reversed... me and 1 girl, 2 girls, 3 girls...

Totally different numbers.lol

I still think as a man you are playing with fire in that situation.

I would definitely still get a consent video of all 8 women involved!

As I see it , As a man in that scenario ….. you are just 8 times more likely to be blamed for something.

Come to think of it there was 8 guys there with the same story. Each guy there had 7 witnesses that they are telling the truth.

 

[Ezekial]

You were not a target for 10 million people to analyze and dig through court cases to see if it was over the line or not.

A few drinks, stupid conduct by young males and females in a bar setting, can ruin your lives. Hope the victim is OK.

Still, never had to get coerced consent or sexually assaulted anyone

 

[TrufleShufle]

Still, never had to get coerced consent or sexually assaulted anyone

Nobody likes a bragger.