Five members from Canada’s 2018 world junior team (Hart, McLeod, Dube, Foote and Formenton) told to surrender to police, facing sexual assault charges

[Kane One]

Well they banned Russia for stuff unrelated to the players and perpetrated by their government.

The US has certainly done enough bad shit to be worthy of the same.

But like I said I don't want to distract from this issue.

More stating how I think it's f***ed up that Russian eats a ban for what they did and hockey Canada is gonna get off scot free for this. Maybe some members of management and players face repercussions, but the program as a whole will go on and not face the music over this.

I hope I'm wrong.

Oh, I agree with this completely.

Hockey Canada will wind up with a lesser punishment from the IIHF than Russia, even though the Russian players themselves didn’t do anything, while Hockey Canada covered up a rape case.

 

[RegDunlop]

Well they banned Russia for stuff unrelated to the players and perpetrated by their government.

The US has certainly done enough bad shit to be worthy of the same.

But like I said I don't want to distract from this issue.

More stating how I think it's f***ed up that Russian eats a ban for what they did and hockey Canada is gonna get off scot free for this. Maybe some members of management and players face repercussions, but the program as a whole will go on and not face the music over this.

I hope I'm wrong.

I actually think you are wrong.
This one ain't going away despite HC attempts to sweep it under the rug

 

[Pancakes]

I actually think you are wrong.
This one ain't going away despite HC attempts to sweep it under the rug

I think Hc will just have some fall guys in management though.

Like the program itself isn't gonna face bans over this or fines.

Again, hope I'm wrong. Imo just punishing the individuals involved is not enough of a strong message. The program itself should face some punishments.

 

[Primary Assist]

Hockey Canada should get a ban from the world juniors.

Better yet, make the players from this scandal (if found guilty) play a game where the refs let the other team break any rules they want

 

[Kane One]

Based on the past few years, the real punishment would be to allow them to participate in the WJC like normal but force everyone in the country to watch

True, but ironically, the 2018 Canadian team won gold. Can it be stripped? Let the players have the medal, but strip it from Hockey Canada. Like a retroactive playing under an IOC flag.

 

[Gregor Samsa]

Is 2+ guys, 1 girl the norm for hockey players? You hear about this shit all the time. I’m sure there are posters here who have played at a pretty high level of hockey that can chime in

 

[Ted Hoffman]

How about you? What exactly have YOU ever done other than chirp on an internet board? I thought so...

Loaded question - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[OilersFanatics505]

Yet she said no one told her she couldn't leave and no one restrained her.

So if you enter a room, and a woman says its consensual and you don't restrain her you consider it rape? Sad culture we live in these days.

Are you saying for sure no one said it or there’s no video evidence of them not saying it?

That's not always the case, it could be one thing and she could say another.

Not the case here though I dont think.


I feel like most people who follow the news know of who and what happened in that case.

good thing Canadas justice system doesn’t run on “I don’t think”

 

[LesCanadiens]

Ok. Let's take a step back to make sure no one is misinterpreting someone.

"Our society has totally devolved at a rapid rate in this manner. From politics, to gender issues, to SA and on and on. Wasn't like that at one time. And I'm old enough to remember."

How has society totally devolved? Shitty politics, gender issues, SA are not new. Not in the slightest. They've been part of human history for the entirety of human history. What has changed is that people are no longer hiding and/or putting up with bullshit from others anymore. That's moving in the right direction.

Bingo. What I meant was that the extremes in either direction get in the way of the dialogue required to move towards solving the issues people have. That's what I meant. Nowadays, people jump to conclusions and can't wait to hear the sound of their own voice. And much of this leads to splitting or AKA all-or-nothing thinking. At that is not healthy no matter what ones beliefs are. That's what I meant. Make sense?

 

[forsbergavs32]

When my parents died, I inherited an entire box of Berenstain Bears books. Kids love 'em.

There's our new distraction topic for this thread. Screw pineapple on pizza, Berenstain or Berenstein!

 

[Machinehead]

Bring back Team Russia.

 

[Number8]

I appreciate the civility in your reply, a tone I will endeavour to return. If my response comes across as trenchant, please parse that as my passion about the subject matter and not any attack on you.

First, I vehemently reject your framing of complaints about this double standard as 'soft whining'. A description of this sort might invoke a man going to a Dodgers game on Mother's Day, where they were giving out free handbags to any woman who attended, and reminding them that California state law means you have to give me a freebie too. That, I could see getting an eye roll and a 'technically he's right, but I hope he's happy, whatever bro' dismissal

What I am railing against has consequences that are not measured in a missed freebie. We are talking unequal protection under the law in criminal cases with severe consequences -- like we're looking at here. When it happens on campus, we are talking a Title 9 violation. And these are not just my idle exaggerations, these are the conclusions of court cases and lawsuits -- and more are coming every day.

Secondly, I reject your framing that the correct response to this is a "tough shit, fellow men, there's no reason to advocate against anti-male sexist biases". That's up to you how or if you want to be an activist, but even at that, us having different angles of activism doesn't mean that we must therefore be opposers, or that you must therefore seek to defend or strengthen this sexist double standard. Plenty of my allies on this issue are feminists who understand that the underlying hypocrisy of the slut/stud dichotomy has plenty of misogynistic consequences, and that through allyship, we can cover more of the issue than we could separately.

You don't have to be my opposer on this situation. If you choose to, of course that's your choice.

Thirdly, though neither of us are likely to experience any life-changing metanoia over this discussion, I think there's an important blind spot in your rhetoric and I think it's a dangerous one: while you correctly conclude that most victims of sexual assault are women and that victims of sexual assault face a challenge being accepted as such, the underlying inference that this difficulty singularly applies to women victims.

On the contrary, I'd say this difficulty is even greater for male victims of sexual assault.

If you recall my discussion of a bog-standard series of events in Las Vegas that lead to statutory rape, while yes it is difficult for a woman in that situation to get justice, at least we're even willing to say she was a victim of rape in the first place, and we as a society are far less likely to do so for men.

And this is precisely because of the double standard I'm speaking of, the same double standard you are dismissing as 'soft whining', where women who commit sexual assault receive much lighter sentences and are incarcerated far less --as with all crimes, actually; Dr. Sonja Starr's 2010 study estimated this bias as over 6x larger the equivalently measured pro-white race bias, and I don't need to convince you how big THAT bias is. And yes, judges have on occasions defended their double standards with an open candor that would make Tim Peel shit his pants.

If judicial double standards don't sway you, just look at our culture. How many more movies like Wedding Crashers or 40 Days and 40 Nights or Super or Big Daddy need to be released before even someone in your position decides to say "yeah, this needs to change"?

Cause I gotta tell you, I don't like it, I don't like any of it, and I think it's important enough that it merits activism and that it merits serious treatment and that laws need to keep changing as they have.

And if you disagree, well, then you disagree. And to complain about that, I'd
definitely count as 'soft whining'

Peace out.

Same to you. Your thoughts are well reasoned and cogent, no doubt. And in principle, I agree that the fairness standard is uneven. Unfortunately that is the case in life — all manor of people deal with that as an every day fact of life. It runs the gamut across different races, sex, socio-economics, etc, etc.

I guess I look at it as a parent — hopefully a good one. I have a son and a daughter and I do treat them differently consciously, and probably more often than not subconsciously.

For example, I have talked to both of my kids about being alert to their surroundings and be mindful of taking bad risks. That said, I’ve emphasized that far more with my daughter. To use another example, I’ve talked with my daughter many times about being careful of open drinks in bars/parties (“I know Dad, we’ve talked about that you know?”). I’ve never talked to my son about that (perhaps I should, who knows?). Is it because I love him less? Absolutely not. It’s because I perceive the risk of that sort of thing is far far greater for her than him. And I think the facts are with me on that.

How many times have we heard stories about black parents talking to their kids about how to deal with being pulled over by the police? How brutal it must be to have to have that talk, and how patently unfair (but very wise IMO). I too have told my kids about this and guided them to be respectful and answer questions clearly and without attitude if in that situation. However, to equate the two would be disrespectful to those families who have far more clear and reasonable fears simply based on the color of their skin.

Is any of this fair or equitable. Absolutely not. However, my experience in life is that not everything is fair.

Does that mean we should not fight for equity and justice where necessary? Absolutely not and kudos to you for your work. In principle I agree with it.

That said one has to look no further than this thread for a sense of the problem. There are many in this thread that I would strongly dissuade my daughter from sitting down and having a drink with. Some of the perceptions and opinions are a bit frightening.

 

[RegDunlop]

I think Hc will just have some fall guys in management though.

Like the program itself isn't gonna face bans over this or fines.

Again, hope I'm wrong. Imo just punishing the individuals involved is not enough of a strong message. The program itself should face some punishments.

Agree
HC
NHL
London Police Dept
should all be investigated thoroughly

 

[norrisnick]

Bingo. What I meant was that the extremes in either direction get in the way of the dialogue required to move towards solving the issues people have. That's what I meant. Nowadays, people jump to conclusions and can't wait to hear the sound of their own voice. And much of this leads to splitting or AKA all-or-nothing thinking. At that is not healthy no matter what ones beliefs are. That's what I meant. Make sense?

Both sides are the same. Right.

Loud and clear.

 

[Sniper99]

I've now completed my law degree thanks everyone.

All you gotta do is watch one episode of suits and you're a lawyer, didnt you know?

 

[Chan790]

I think Hc will just have some fall guys in management though.

Like the program itself isn't gonna face bans over this or fines.

Again, hope I'm wrong. Imo just punishing the individuals involved is not enough of a strong message. The program itself should face some punishments.

 

[Czechboy]

Here is my absurd take ... but there is another side I don't see mentioned too often

Let's say the absolute most beautiful girl in the world is 100% consenting, sober and dying to sleep with 8 guys. This is her dream.

7 of my friends are in the room and fulfilling her 100% consenual fantasies. Her dreams come true.

They need an 8th guy to join in.. have sex with her, film it, take turns ...

They text me!!!

Hey Czechboy! We got the most beautiful girl in the world here.. all 7 of us are having sex with her, taking turns and filiming it. BUT, she really wants an 8th guy to join in... come on over.. we are in room 10 at the Sheraton. She is sober and consenting. Bring a condom and your phone.. it's going to be great!

My reply - f*** NO

I don't want to have sex with 7 of my buddies. I don't need to see 3 of them have sex with a girl while I record. I don't want to stand beside 2 friends while 5 have fun. This just isn't for me. Having sex with 1 woman while 7 buddies are watching doesn't seem appealing to me in any way, shape or form. I am probably not man enough or something. Guilty or not, I'm still shocked that 8 guys wanted to be in that room in anyway, shape or form.lol

I'll see myself out!

 

[Leonardo87]

There's our new distraction topic for this thread. Screw pineapple on pizza, Berenstain or Berenstein!

Pineapple on pizza????

Hell no!

 

[Pink Mist]

Is 2+ guys, 1 girl the norm for hockey players? You hear about this shit all the time. I’m sure there are posters here who have played at a pretty high level of hockey that can chime in

I'll preface by saying that there's nothing wrong with group sex.

However, in the cases of hockey/jock culture i'd speculate it's more about teammates bonding by having power over/degrading women

 

[Seanaconda]

I was responding to the position that some have that say that it’s unfair to assume that men don’t have a higher level of responsibility when it comes to rape. It’s nonsensical. Does it carry unfair implications for men that don’t behave that way? Of course. But it is what it is.

Those that suggest that men are somehow at the same level of risk for this abhorrent behavior as women? Come on man. You may hate the implications, but you may have to deal with it.

No one is saying that men are somehow subhumans, but if you really think that’s men don’t sexually abuse women far far more than the other way around, I don’t know what to say other than the facts are most definitely against you.

This is off topic but I pass as both m or f and it's wild how different men and women are just on dating sites. Like I didn't know I was supposed to be this aggressive as a man lol.

But men are aggressive but i sorta see why cuz I matched with like 50000 of them so you have to stick out I guess ?

 

[D Wakaluk]

Rumor has it if you read this topic more than two pages you will actually start losing brain cells.

Herd derp

 

[MXD]

Everyone knows pineapple doesn't belong on a pizza..

But does it belong on cannelonis?

 

[Profet]

Bring back Team Russia.

In Soviet Canada, Team brings back you!

 

[Seanaconda]

Everyone knows pineapple doesn't belong on a pizza..

But does it belong on cannelonis?

People that think pineapple doesn't belong on pizza and can't keep it to themselves are the worst people . It's like vegans I don't care what you don't eat

 

[MXD]

People that think pineapple doesn't belong on pizza and can't keep it to themselves are the worst people . It's like vegans I don't care what you don't eat

Nah, the worst people are those who can't figure out an obvious mean to change topic, and who can't keep to themselves about it.