Five members from Canada’s 2018 world junior team (Hart, McLeod, Dube, Foote and Formenton) told to surrender to police, facing sexual assault charges

[MoneyManny]

I just hope that if they are sentenced to prison, that they put them in the general population and not the protection blocks so that they may truly be sorry for their actions.

At this point i feel like their innocence is extremely unlikely.

 

[jetsmooseice]

I feel like if you have to obtain a video deposition of a woman before and after you and others have had sex with her, you may have done something wrong.

I also don't know how much weight we should give to the statement of a woman who was in a room alone with 5-8 males looking to have sex with her. She is completely outnumbered, overpowered, and more.

The mere fact that she was outnumbered in a hotel room like this is wrong enough. From things I've read she seemed to be interested in/okay with having sex with one person who took that trust and brought in several others.

Is this standard behaviour now? Am I just a prude?

I have to admit in my younger days it never even crossed my mind to try and get my buddies involved in "intimate times" with a woman. Let alone the way these guys allegedly went about it which, if true, constitutes a criminal act that also happens to be completely morally reprehensible.

 

[Gaylord Q Tinkledink]

Listening to the team 1200 and the guest is saying because people were asked to surrender to the police there will be charges.

 

[Scandale du Jour]

I also have a daughter, but even if I didn't there was never any time where I wouldn't have thought 'whatever anyone says in that state, when surrounded, consent cannot be presumed'. To use a much lower stakes comparison - I'm going to "willingly" (that is, I will say I am happy to do it) give up my lunch money if I'm surrounded by 5 big guys who, erm, "ask" me for it. Obviously I'm not comparing that to being a rape victim, only situations in which people had enough brain cells to rub together would consider that 'consent' given in those circumstances isn't to be taken seriously.

As a youth sports coach, I tend to think that this kind of behavior is not natural. That isn't to say people aren't naturally predatory, but that this kind of ganged up predatory stuff which seeks to create the illusion of consent, is taught. I do not mean it as an excuse for anyone, *and* I also find it difficult to believe people do these things without either having been victimized themselves, or having being coerced into assisting a victimizer by being groomed. It's true that misogyny is part of the problem, but I imagine that as bad as ordinary misogyny is, this stuff has even darker causes.

Look no further than the culture around initiation to learn where they learn the predatory behavior. It is the exact same pattern.

 

[inthewings]

I just hope that if they are sentenced to prison, that they put them in the general population and not the protection blocks so that they may truly be sorry for their actions.

At this point i feel like their innocence is extremely unlikely.

I hate posts like this. In Canada we sentence people to a loss of their freedom, not to daily violence and prison rape.

 

[Jee]

Listening to the team 1200 and the guest is saying because people were asked to surrender to the police there will be charges.

that was the consensus yesterday, yes. but nothing confirmed yet, so this post is borderline speculation. paging @Bear of Bad News

 

[Unbiased Fan]

What are you even talking about? The victim doesn't need a "defence".

Excuse*?

 

[Mike Jones]

At this point i feel like their innocence is extremely unlikely.

Let the courts decide that.

And general population isn't always a good idea. It's one thing to punish someone for a particular crime it's quite another to turn them into a habitual offender.

Hopefully, if one or more of these kids do jail time they'll come out ready to rejoin society.

humans are trash.

We are a pretty malignant species. But we are all we have right now.

 

[saintunspecified]

Look no further than the culture around initiation to learn where they learn the predatory behavior. It is the exact same pattern.

I'm so lucky that I never had to deal with any of that, and I also think that I would have quit rather than deal with it. But, then, never being an exceptional (much less than elite) athlete, I wouldn't have had much to lose.

 

[DEANYOUNGBLOOD17]

From what I've read it says that John Does 1-8 committed acts towards the woman so why are only 5 players being charged?

Hockey Canada paid more $$$ out of their slush fund to have HD 6/7/8 removed from having to attend summer class (Ontario courtroom) this July with HD 1/2/3/4/5

 

[SensFactor]

Justice is coming...and soon if they are convicted

 

[AslanRH]

Just came to revisit this thread after an evening off and a good nap to see how many of the Mods survived.

 

[njdevil26]

Is this standard behaviour now? Am I just a prude?

I have to admit in my younger days it never even crossed my mind to try and get my buddies involved in "intimate times" with a woman. Let alone the way these guys allegedly went about it which, if true, constitutes a criminal act that also happens to be completely morally reprehensible.

I agree with you here. I was happy enough a woman was interested in hooking up.. I definitely didn't want to bring in my pals who could possibly do a better job and make me look bad!

But in all seriousness this is common in hockey culture. Probably in other sports too but I don't think any of the other sports have the teenage/20 year old frat culture that hockey does.

I have heard from friends and a cousin who have played at the junior level that this kind of thing is common unfortunately.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Listening to the team 1200 and the guest is saying because people were asked to surrender to the police there will be charges.

We learnt that in the OP tweet., from Westhead.

 

[VivaLasVegas]

Could also be that 3 were consensual but 5 were not, the point is that we don’t have any information to make any judgment calls on any of it

Exactly. For what we don't know, might as well consult the OUIJA board.

 

[Jee]

Justice is coming...and soon if they are convicted

they did release two new singles yesterday

 

[DEANYOUNGBLOOD17]

I hope justice is served.

And that hockey culture has a long overdue reckoning. Now, of course these problems are pervasive across all of society, but that doesn't mean they're aren't things specific to hockey, especially in Canada, that don't need addressing.

Moreso than any other sport, hockey leans into nostalgia. Kids skating on frozen ponds, peewees wearing ties to the rink, the arena being the heartbeat of the community from coast to coast to coast. All this is based on a premise that all this is done (perhaps the best comparison is high school football in the US) because these are GOOD kids. They're the kids with crew cuts from yesteryear.

It's myth making and it's dangerous. I'm not saying we all have to be cynics and hate and mistrust athletes, but someone's worth isn't determined based on their ability to play a sport no matter what TSN and the WJC try to tell us or Sportsnet and Hockey Day in Canada try to tell us.

Because once we accept that as the premise, THAT's how victims get maligned, because we've decided in our minds these are good boys from good families who play for OUR team. They can't possibly be in the wrong.

All of it needs to end, no matter who it makes uncomfortable in the process.

This sounds like a pity party from the person always taken / picked last in gym class.

They all good kids!

Don’t throw out the barrel of apples due to a few bad apples when they grow up!

 

[beowulf]

I'll refrain from judgement until they are charged and have had their day in court but I think we all know who the five are given 5 players took leave of abscesses in the week leading up to this announcement.

 

[DEANYOUNGBLOOD17]

If you have to ask multiple times if it’s consensual while videotaping…

Correct me if I’m wrong?

But asking and ensuring consent not just at the beginning / but the middle and the end is the exact description of informed consent from the me too movement.

And you just used it as a way to identify that he is guilty and paranoid about it.

No satisfying a witch hunt!!!

 

[hoglund]

Yeah, it seems to be fine to take advantage of an intoxicated girl here? First f*** here, then call your 7 friends there to use her more? WTF is wrong with ppl? If theese things had happened to my daughters, I promise the guys never are able to play hockey again!

You could be right and that behavior is terrible, but we don't know all of the facts, they could be innocent. I encourage you to watch the 2006 documentary "fantastic lies" on Disney plus. It's about the Duke University lacrosse team that had a party and a few players were accused on sexual harassment. The women lied

I also have a daughter, but even if I didn't there was never any time where I wouldn't have thought 'whatever anyone says in that state, when surrounded, consent cannot be presumed'. To use a much lower stakes comparison - I'm going to "willingly" (that is, I will say I am happy to do it) give up my lunch money if I'm surrounded by 5 big guys who, erm, "ask" me for it. Obviously I'm not comparing that to being a rape victim, only situations in which people had enough brain cells to rub together would consider that 'consent' given in those circumstances isn't to be taken seriously.

As a youth sports coach, I tend to think that this kind of behavior is not natural. That isn't to say people aren't naturally predatory, but that this kind of ganged up predatory stuff which seeks to create the illusion of consent, is taught. I do not mean it as an excuse for anyone, *and* I also find it difficult to believe people do these things without either having been victimized themselves, or having being coerced into assisting a victimizer by being groomed. It's true that misogyny is part of the problem, but I imagine that as bad as ordinary misogyny is, this stuff has even darker causes.

Everyone needs to watch the ESPN documentary Fantastic lies about the Duke University lacrosse team in 2006. 3 players were accused of sexual assault and after 8 months of investigation they were proven innocent and the accuser admitted to lying. The same may be true for these players. The documentary Fantastic lies is on Disney plus and I encourage everyone interested in this case to watch it.

 

[njdevil26]

Correct me if I’m wrong?

But asking and ensuring consent not just at the beginning / but the middle and the end is the exact description of informed consent from the me too movement.

And you just used it as a way to identify that he is guilty and paranoid about it.

No satisfying a witch hunt!!!

“She s a witch burn her / cut her balls off!”

No one is wrong here... it's all up to our interpretation until the facts eventually come out. I just personally don't trust 20 year old hockey players partying in a hotel to do the right thing and be respectful of a woman. To me I take the whole thing as guys knowing they may have done something wrong trying to get something that will keep them out of trouble.

 

[Scotianhab]

I didn’t backread to see if it was mentioned. Halifax police is now investigating the 2003 team.

 

[hangman005]

Just came to revisit this thread after an evening off and a good nap to see how many of the Mods survived.

 

[DEANYOUNGBLOOD17]

Again I ask, if nothing happened, why is there a police investigation and criminal charges coming?

Follow the Money $$$$…

The London Police had all this information 5-1/2 years ago. No charges laid!

Introduce a backhanded shady slush fund 3 plus million payout and 5 days of parliament meeting getting the vocal me too movement stirred up …. Which probably cost an additional 5 -10 million of public $ to have these public inquires.

You don’t spend that kind of $$$ and have all those 2 faced no good politicians on all sides make promises for change with out having a final act in the courtroom !

Where’s the drama
Where’s the suspense in that
Where’s the cliffhanger
Who has the smoking gun

Follow the money !

The correct answer was probably deducted 5-1/2 years ago by the London police investigation then.

Nothing to see here … looked into it … move along … nothing to see here!

-3-1/2million later ( slush$) hockey Canada
-5-10 public $ money million later
- a lot of people out there want to see millionaire athletes lose everything and get knocked down 10 pegs citing hockey culture and they have it to easy….

Politicians and do gooders getting involved…..

 

[Sasha Orlov]

Follow the Money $$$$…

The London Police had all this information 5-1/2 years ago. No charges laid!

Introduce a backhanded shady slush fund 3 plus million payout and 5 days of parliament meeting getting the vocal me too movement stirred up …. Which probably cost an additional 5 -10 million of public $ to have these public inquires.

You don’t spend that kind of $$$ and have all those 2 faced no good politicians on all sides make promises for change with out having a final act in the courtroom !

Where’s the drama
Where’s the suspense in that
Where’s the cliffhanger
Who has the smoking gun

Follow the money !

The correct answer was probably deducted 5-1/2 years ago by the London police investigation then.

Nothing to see here … looked into it …

-3-12 million later
-5-10 public $ money million later
- a lot of people out there want to see millionaire athletes lose everything and get knocked down 10 pegs citing hockey culture and they have it to easy….

Politicians and do goiders getting involved…..