Five members from Canada’s 2018 world junior team (Hart, McLeod, Dube, Foote and Formenton) told to surrender to police, facing sexual assault charges

[Profet]

Intoxication isn’t a defence in most cases the exception are being drugged or pressured into drinking.

What are you even talking about? The victim doesn't need a "defence".

 

[4thline]

Would someone really call police back after filing a report to say stop with any proceedings? If you really felt some sort of assault was taken on you there is no way you call them back and say to stop any proceedings. Am I wrong here?

Yes.

 

[oldunclehue]

I wonder if the reason it took so long to press charges is because one or more of the 3 other players in the room had a change of heart and decided to testify

I believe the case was re-opened after the Hockey Canada scandal was brought to light by Rick Westhead. He discovered the incident after the payout by however means. Hockey Canada and London police were found to have egg on their faces and had to do something.

I'm guessing it wasn't closed due to lack of victim cooperation, I am guessing she was coerced into letting it go based upon the monetary side of a civil suit.

 

[Strangle]

Seems like it was 8 but there are multiple but purely speculative possible explanations: The other folks were present, but didn't participate (watching a sexual assault may be morally onerous but might not rise to the dignity of a crime in a particular jurisdiction), or they did participate but have turned state's evidence and agreed to plead guilty later for reduced sentences in exchange for cooperation, or the original story was just wrong, etc. & etc. & etc.

As a lawyer myself, I will suggest that there is nothing to be gained from such speculation other than frustration so it's better to just ignore the myriad possibilities until the real facts do come out. You can't do anything about it anyway.

Noting that I know utterly nothing about substantive criminal law in Canada, which is often different than in the States (which themselves frequently differ), and might even differ between the Provinces (I don't know), nor do I have the least little bit of knowledge of Canadian criminal procedure other than to presume that it is akin to English criminal procedure. Happily waiting to read the press releases from the prosecutor's office and defense counsel who will presumably know something of these issues.

Could also be that 3 were consensual but 5 were not, the point is that we don’t have any information to make any judgment calls on any of it

 

[mr figgles]

This topic shouldn't be discussed until after the trial. These 5 players are not even convicted yet, it's circumstantial evidence because they left their teams for personal reasons. I'm sure that these are the players in question, but there's no proof and everyone is innocent until proven guilty.

Nah. It not being discussed and in the public eye was why it was so easy for Team Canada to have it buried in the first place.

 

[MXD]

What are you even talking about? The victim doesn't need a "defence".

I think he's saying that an accused cannot raise its own intoxication as a defense.

 

[Scandale du Jour]

Nah. It not being discussed and in the public eye was why it was so easy for Team Canada to have it buried in the first place.

I think that, at the end of the, it is what disgusts me the most. Hockey Canada doing everything in their power to bury the story.

How many other stories like that have they, or other organizations (sports, business, etc), have been able to successfully suppress?

 

[CanMerc]

I think that, at the end of the, it is what disgusts me the most. Hockey Canada doing everything in their power to bury the story.

How many other stories like that have they, or other organizations (sports, business, etc), have been able to successfully suppress?

That’s why ending that boys club culture of entitlement is so important… it has been going on for decades and it needs to stop

 

[Edgelord]

I wanted trades but 5 players to the London PD for future considerations was not what I expected

 

[njdevil26]

I feel like if you have to obtain a video deposition of a woman before and after you and others have had sex with her, you may have done something wrong.

I also don't know how much weight we should give to the statement of a woman who was in a room alone with 5-8 males looking to have sex with her. She is completely outnumbered, overpowered, and more.

The mere fact that she was outnumbered in a hotel room like this is wrong enough. From things I've read she seemed to be interested in/okay with having sex with one person who took that trust and brought in several others.

 

[CanMerc]

I wanted trades but 5 players to the London PD for future considerations was not what I expected

They’re gonna have a good jail league team, though

 

[Mike Jones]

Ok…I’m back…can we speculate yet???

Just check out news sources like the Globe and Mail - the names are all in there. Basically anybody granted a leave of absence yesterday is a good guess.

 

[MXD]

I think that, at the end of the, it is what disgusts me the most. Hockey Canada doing everything in their power to bury the story.

How many other stories like that have they, or other organizations (sports, business, etc), have been able to successfully suppress?

It's not only Hockey Canada. It's mostly cultural. Impunity culture and a non-negligible amount of bootlickers.

 

[CanMerc]

I feel like if you have to obtain a video deposition of a woman before and after you and others have had sex with her, you may have done something wrong.

I also don't know how much weight we should give to the statement of a woman who was in a room alone with 5-8 males looking to have sex with her. She is completely outnumbered, overpowered, and more.

The mere fact that she was outnumbered in a hotel room like this is wrong enough. From things I've read she seemed to be interested in/okay with having sex with one person who took that trust and brought in several others.

Any woman should be able to walk into any room full of any number of men without fear of sexual assault….

 

[njdevil26]

Any woman should be able to walk into any room full of any number of men without fear of sexual assault….

That's 1000% true and unfortunately not the case in society then and now.

 

[4thline]

It's not only Hockey Canada. It's mostly cultural. Impunity culture and a non-negligible amount of bootlickers.

And too many guys made way to uncomfortable by the concept that badgering/convincing someone in a compromising situation into grudging "consent" isn't kosher morally, and potentially legally

 

[Reality Czech]

That's 1000% true and unfortunately not the case in society then and now.

I also strongly believe that murder is wrong, yet some people still insist on doing it from time to time. What a world

 

[njdevil26]

I also strongly believe that murder is wrong, yet some people still insist on doing it from time to time. What a world

This is a really bold thing to say so early in the morning.

 

[Jee]

I also strongly believe that murder is wrong, yet some people still insist on doing it from time to time. What a world

humans are trash

 

[PavelBure10]

Just thankful they have the players in question.

 

[Strangle]

Any woman should be able to walk into any room full of any number of men without fear of sexual assault….

People should be able to live peacefully in their homes without locking their doors but we share the planet with a number of scum bags

 

[Scandale du Jour]

It's not only Hockey Canada. It's mostly cultural. Impunity culture and a non-negligible amount of bootlickers.

Yeah, that's the saddest thing. It is rather systemic.

 

[saintunspecified]

Found guilty or not, theese guys should face justice. Not only the 5, but the guys watching too. As a dad of 2 daughters, I`m absolutely not ok with 8 guys taking advantage of 1 girl, no matter how drunk she was and if she said "no" or not. They should all face justice. In 1 way or another...

I also have a daughter, but even if I didn't there was never any time where I wouldn't have thought 'whatever anyone says in that state, when surrounded, consent cannot be presumed'. To use a much lower stakes comparison - I'm going to "willingly" (that is, I will say I am happy to do it) give up my lunch money if I'm surrounded by 5 big guys who, erm, "ask" me for it. Obviously I'm not comparing that to being a rape victim, only situations in which people had enough brain cells to rub together would consider that 'consent' given in those circumstances isn't to be taken seriously.

As a youth sports coach, I tend to think that this kind of behavior is not natural. That isn't to say people aren't naturally predatory, but that this kind of ganged up predatory stuff which seeks to create the illusion of consent, is taught. I do not mean it as an excuse for anyone, *and* I also find it difficult to believe people do these things without either having been victimized themselves, or having being coerced into assisting a victimizer by being groomed. It's true that misogyny is part of the problem, but I imagine that as bad as ordinary misogyny is, this stuff has even darker causes.

 

[Reality Czech]

This is a really bold thing to say so early in the morning.

I'm fairness I live in Europe. But I hope my controversial statement didn't cause anyone to spit out their coffee!

 

[jonlin]

This topic shouldn't be discussed until after the trial. These 5 players are not even convicted yet, it's circumstantial evidence because they left their teams for personal reasons. I'm sure that these are the players in question, but there's no proof and everyone is innocent until proven guilty.

Yeah, it seems to be fine to take advantage of an intoxicated girl here? First f*** here, then call your 7 friends there to use her more? WTF is wrong with ppl? If theese things had happened to my daughters, I promise the guys never are able to play hockey again!