Five members from Canada’s 2018 world junior team (Hart, McLeod, Dube, Foote and Formenton) told to surrender to police, facing sexual assault charges

[Chairman Maouth]

I completely understand; you are far from the only person to struggle with the dissonance between the literal reaction represented by a 'social media react' and the way they've all kind of been debased into a generic "roger that!" / "I hear that!" sentiment.

Obviously beyond any doubt, it's crystal clear none of us 'likes' any of these horrible events that we are talking about.



People are talking about the facts of the charges, the facts of societal double standards, the facts of salient misogyny, the facts of hockey culture's toxic aspects, and we're all doing it just fine.

Although things are not always as they may appear at first glance, I feel like you are a kindred spirit.

You and I could get along.

 

[potatowejj]

If true, arguably the worst thing that's ever happened to Canadian hockey, and extrapolated, to the NHL. Maybe someone else can think of something worse, but I can't.

It's a dark day for me personally, and I'm sure for many of you also.

Perhaps what's most chilling about this is knowing how many times things like this, Graeme James, and the Beach incident have probably happened in hockey only to get covered up by the toxicity that is hockey culture.

 

[AlphaLackey]

Although things are not always as they may appear at first glance, I feel like you are a kindred spirit.

You and I could get along.

Well, I hope we get a chance to. Shoot me a DM or stop by the Jets forums any time we're not playing your team. And I know that my argumentative style doesn't always make me the easiest to get to know. I can only emphasize that I speak the way I do not as some pompous affectation, but out of a desire to be precise and exact; doubly important when we are dealing with legal and criminal matters where so many young people's lives hang in the balance, most importantly of all of course the woman at the center of it all.

 

[WhatTheDuck]

Hey for people that don't like pickles have you tried role playing the pickles as the pickled remains of your enemies ? ?

Have not tried that
#BellLetsTalk

 

[AlphaLackey]

Perhaps what's most chilling about this is knowing how many times things like this, Graeme James, and the Beach incident have probably happened in hockey only to get covered up by the toxicity that is hockey culture.

Which is precisely why the exposure of James and of Beach's assailants and of any and all criminal members of the CJ team is so vital. And why, as they say, the perfect is the enemy of the good. We can't take a bigger second step without taking this first big one.

Even just in my lifetime (49.5 years and counting) I've seen attitudes change in matters of head shots, homophobic and racist slurs on the ice, hazing, and additive diversity measures. It actually nicely parallels the similar changes we've seen in the statistical and analytic side of the game, from back when +/- was some big secret tech.

There are two key signs to the change that is righteous: it is slow, and it is inexorable.

 

[cptjeff]

Perhaps what's most chilling about this is knowing how many times things like this, Graeme James, and the Beach incident have probably happened in hockey only to get covered up by the toxicity that is hockey culture.

I mean, there was that time that Harold Ballard was covering up a youth sex trafficking ring that several Leafs employees were running out of Maple Leaf Gardens.

 

[Chairman Maouth]

Perhaps what's most chilling about this is knowing how many times things like this, Graeme James, and the Beach incident have probably happened in hockey only to get covered up by the toxicity that is hockey culture.

Great points. Fantastic.

Because of firsthand experiences with sexual abuse, I find this news about 2018 Team Canada particularly distressing.

Which is precisely why the exposure of James and of Beach's assailants and of any and all criminal members of the CJ team is so vital. And why, as they say, the perfect is the enemy of the good. We can't take a bigger second step without taking this first big one.

Even just in my lifetime (49.5 years and counting) I've seen attitudes change in matters of head shots, homophobic and racist slurs on the ice, hazing, and additive diversity measures. It actually nicely parallels the similar changes we've seen in the statistical and analytic side of the game, from back when +/- was some big secret tech.

There are two key signs to the change that is righteous: it is slow, and it is inexorable.

Again....

 

[Primary Assist]

Hey for people that don't like pickles have you tried role playing the pickles as the pickled remains of your enemies ? ?

Rarely do I actually laugh out loud out a post, but wow this one got me

 

[potatowejj]

I mean, there was that time that Harold Ballard was covering up a youth sex trafficking ring that several Leafs employees were running out of Maple Leaf Gardens.

Harold Ballard was one of the worst humans to ever be involved with hockey. No surprise there.

 

[RickyLafleur]

I completely understand; you are far from the only person to struggle with the dissonance between the literal reaction represented by a 'social media react' and the way they've all kind of been debased into a generic "roger that!" / "I hear that!" sentiment.

Obviously beyond any doubt, it's crystal clear none of us 'likes' any of these horrible events that we are talking about.



People are talking about the facts of the charges, the facts of societal double standards, the facts of salient misogyny, the facts of hockey culture's toxic aspects, and we're all doing it just fine.

All of those topics have been beaten to death on this website, aside from charges being laid, as this is the most recent development.

 

[Strangle]

In reality, theres only a handful of posters that @Bear of Bad News is willing to get sued over.

None of us are on the list though....

I hope it’s me!!!

 

[Pink Mist]

You can talk about the case and what the implications will be for the league and whichever players are charged without trying to play guess the player.

Except we don't need to guess who the players are because credible media has already effectively established who they are...

Bizarre decision that we can't discuss it

 

[Ted Hoffman]

This is gonna get weird if we are flexing on which tragedy was worse lol

Should flex on which food mentioned in this thread is worse. So far.

 

[canuckslover10]

Agreed. Indefinite suspension during legal proceedings is the right way to go. It's a nice "probabilistic" punishment for something that may or may not be indicative of guilt.

During my days as a civvy with the Calgary Police, if I had been found at the scene of some crime, to the point where there was an investigation, I could have counted on a suspension until the matter was resolved. And it would have been real easy. I used to play in underground poker games and I attended many parties where then-illegal marijuana was _de rigeur_



To reiterate, it may well be the case that, when JD 6-8 left, they had witnessed nothing illegal. I apologize for being repetitive, but this is a key distinction and one that keeps getting dropped.

Possible but unlikely IMO especially considering the woman claimed to leave and made multiple attempts, all the details must come out which they should and most likely will but if the victim in this situation says that 8 men were there then they should be named, none of these players deserve protection IMO, the fact they aren't going to be buried under a prison is more than enough protection IMO.

 

[Chileiceman]

Is it reasonable to assume that the players who have taken leaves of absences who shan't be named will not be playing until their names are cleared, if that ever happens? If Quenneville and Bowman were chased out of the league on unproven (in court) allegations of having covered something up, one has to imagine the implications of these unproven allegations would be even more severe as they involve alleged rapists.

 

[Mad Dog Tannen]

They can rot in jail.

There are some big names on the 2018 roster.

Will be interesting.

 

[Chairman Maouth]

Well, I hope we get a chance to. Shoot me a DM or stop by the Jets forums any time we're not playing your team. And I know that my argumentative style doesn't always make me the easiest to get to know. I can only emphasize that I speak the way I do not as some pompous affectation, but out of a desire to be precise and exact; doubly important when we are dealing with legal and criminal matters where so many young people's lives hang in the balance, most importantly of all of course the woman at the center of it all.

Is it reasonable to assume that the players who have taken leaves of absences who shan't be named will not be playing until their names are cleared, if that ever happens? If Quenneville and Bowman were chased out of the league on unproven (in court) allegations of having covered something up, one has to imagine the implications of these unproven allegations would be even more severe as they involve alleged rapists.

I'm not sure who from the 2018 team have taken leaves of absence, but no, that would not be unreasonable.

 

[ForsbergForever]

Is it reasonable to assume that the players who have taken leaves of absences who shan't be named will not be playing until their names are cleared, if that ever happens? If Quenneville and Bowman were chased out of the league on unproven (in court) allegations of having covered something up, one has to imagine the implications of these unproven allegations would be even more severe as they involve alleged rapists.

I would imagine at least not in North America, however all 5 could be making very good money in the KHL for as long as they'd like to play. An NHL-calibre starting goaltender, for instance, if one was to be involved, would be in high demand in Russia or China.

 

[Mad Dog Tannen]

Uh no, it's called following the law.

Yeah. “Law”.

If you’re getting charged with something. Particularly as serious as this, I’m sure the police will let you come in at your leisure. It’s not like cops show up at peoples houses and arrest them - or work with police forces in say, the states to coordinate arrests since we have extradition agreements with them.

White glove treatment.

Wouldn’t be surprised if it includes an nhler or 2 or 5.

 

[AlphaLackey]

This is gonna get weird if we are flexing on which tragedy was worse lol

I have a very strong feeling that no one here is going to gain any actual 'flex' if their examples are shown to be the worst. Our motivation is pretty clearly one of cataloguing, not of ordering. And it's a sobering reminder as to how many black eyes this game has had. Think about what a.. individual that Theo Fleury is on social media, but surely some part of that has to be a receipt for the trauma he endured as a child.

Of course, plenty of it is him being an asshole like he always was.

And an explanation is not an exculpation.

But you can't tell me that his bad behaviour doesn't have at least somewhat of a predictable genesis.

 

[Grifter3511]

I'm not sure who from the 2018 team have taken leaves of absence, but no, that would not be unreasonable.

There's a 6 hour old article on the score that lists exactly who has taken leaves.

 

[AlphaLackey]

There's a 6 hour old article on the score that lists exactly who has taken leaves.

A leave is not a concession of guilt. One could easily take a leave to gain time and space for support of a friend or former teammate charged with a heinous crime.

 

[Jeffrey Pedler]

Wrong....you can be charged without being arrested, often happens and Police seek a endorsed/unendorsed warrant of arrest.

Exactly! Especially when it comes to summary conviction offenses where the police must find committing in order to arrest. If the police don't find commiting, they can still lay charges.

 

[Grifter3511]

A leave is not a concession of guilt. One could easily take a leave to gain time and space for support of a friend or former teammate charged with a heinous crime.

I am in no way saying it is. I'm just letting Chairman know that the information on who has taken leaves is easily available, should he care to look at it. But im sure he already knew that. He seems quite knowledgeable.

 

[Pink Mist]

A leave is not a concession of guilt. One could easily take a leave to gain time and space for support of a friend or former teammate charged with a heinous crime.

If you truely believe that, I have a bridge to sell you...