Five members from Canada’s 2018 world junior team (Hart, McLeod, Dube, Foote and Formenton) told to surrender to police, facing sexual assault charges

[snag]

No, you get tried as a youth if you were a youth at the time of the allegation.

Not too many years ago I represented a guy on charges from the 1960s. So I was defending a man in his 60s in youth court.

That's is so crazy. But it brings in another thing: Canada has no statute of limitations

 

[AnInjuredJasonZucker]

"I'm distraught and can't come to work because some guys I played hockey with 5 years ago are getting charged for sexually assaulting somebody"?

Yeah... Gonna go ahead and say that's a completely illogical suggestion.

I agree that it would be pretty doubtful just because their buddies were getting charged, however, I could see it for uninvolved players from that team because of all of the speculation over such a long period of time. If they find out they're about to be publicly cleared that "relief" can manifest in a few different ways - not all of it positive.

 

[AlphaLackey]

Most important post in this thread

The "No consenting to wake-up sex", though something I was familiar with, is still mind-boggling to me. How many otherwise ordinary married Canadian couples does this criminalize for activity they are both ostensibly consenting to?

 

[Sasha Orlov]

The "No consenting to wake-up sex", though something I was familiar with, is still mind-boggling to me. How many otherwise ordinary married Canadian couples does this criminalize for activity they are both ostensibly consenting to?

Canadas sexual assault laws are by no means perfect

If you want a good example, check out the history of intoxication as a defense

 

[sepster]

Everyone even discussing that the girl is making it up needs their computers checked.

Attention everyone, this is an absurd take.

 

[AlphaLackey]

"I'm distraught and can't come to work because some guys I played hockey with 5 years ago are getting charged for sexually assaulting somebody"?

Yeah... Gonna go ahead and say that's a completely illogical suggestion.

I had someone I considered a friend, an industry comrade, and a role model get charged for (and then convicted of) murder. If you don't think that can mess you up enough to where you would need a lot of time to process it, then I pray you remain with the good fortune of never being in that position.

And the leave of absence could just as easily be wanting to be there to support their friend, right? Again, something that I had an.. instinct? Pull? Concern? about. I never did, of course, but you'd be surprised how many emails to reporters and social media beat websites correcting misinformation and supplying missing context. Because it was just an 'I need to do this' thing.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

Attention everyone, this is an absurd take.

Thank God you're back - you were gone long enough that I was worried people would think we thread-banned you for your "my free speech!" stuff.

 

[Profet]

ESPN seems to link the players and the allegations together in this article...

NHL players on leave amid sexual assault inquiry

Five players from Canada's 2018 world junior team have taken a leave of absence from their current clubs in recent days amid a report that five members of that team have been asked to surrender to police to face sexual assault charges.

www.espn.com

Can we stop calling it speculation yet?

 

[AnInjuredJasonZucker]

The law isnt perfect to capture all of the rapist but we should never let one innocent person go to jail for something they didnt do. Thats morally worse and has been agreed upon in almost every civilized society.

Yup - And I didn't suggest otherwise. Just poking holes in the "best way to find the validity" argument. There are a lot of very loud voices that like to use that argument to dismiss out of hand all accusations that don't come with reams of physical evidence, often in an effort to downplay how large the problem is while overstating the occurrence of false accusations.

 

[Ted Hoffman]

Ah, time for the good ole HF Boards automatic guilty verdict.

I'm so jealous of these crystal ball holding posters!

Wait until you see all the posters who are secretly lawyers with an expertise in the law re: sexual assault, who last week were also experts in labor law re: the draft and the week prior to that were personal injury experts re: defamation.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

Wait until you see all the posters who are secretly lawyers with an expertise in the law re: sexual assault, who last week were also experts in labor law re: the draft and the week prior to that were personal injury experts re: defamation.

And Ukraine, and COVID-19.

 

[Kane One]

ESPN seems to link the players and the allegations together in this article...

NHL players on leave amid sexual assault inquiry

Five players from Canada's 2018 world junior team have taken a leave of absence from their current clubs in recent days amid a report that five members of that team have been asked to surrender to police to face sexual assault charges.

www.espn.com

Can we stop calling it speculation yet?

Even ESPN is speculating on the players. It’s still not confirmed.

 

[MXD]

Thank God you're back - you were gone long enough that I was worried people would think we thread-banned you for your "my free speech!" stuff.

Nothing of relevance would've been lost.

 

[Jmo89]

She couldnt have if she had been drinking. Thats the law in Canada.

Legally in Canada you have to be sober to give consent, police statement, etc. If she wasnt sober she couldnt give consent.

This is not the law. You can't be incapacitated and consent, you can be intoxicated.

Even the incapacitated part is a bit subjective, but there are certain things on their own (unconsciousness) and together (vomiting, slurred speech, confusion, etc.) that would indicate their capacity to consent is compromised.

 

[Sasha Orlov]

And Ukraine, and COVID-19.

Some of us are just general experts ok???

 

[abax44]

I had someone I considered a friend, an industry comrade, and a role model get charged for (and then convicted of) murder. If you don't think that can mess you up enough to where you would need a lot of time to process it, then I pray you remain with the good fortune of never being in that position.

And the leave of absence could just as easily be wanting to be there to support their friend, right? Again, something that I had an.. instinct? Pull? Concern? about. I never did, of course, but you'd be surprised how many emails to reporters and social media beat websites correcting misinformation and supplying missing context. Because it was just an 'I need to do this' thing.

This guy was my instructor at a by-law enforcement course I did. It didn't bother me to find out what he was, but I was never close to him. Super nice guy, though (to me).

Michael Sandham - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

 

[Ted Hoffman]

ESPN seems to link the players and the allegations together in this article...

NHL players on leave amid sexual assault inquiry

Five players from Canada's 2018 world junior team have taken a leave of absence from their current clubs in recent days amid a report that five members of that team have been asked to surrender to police to face sexual assault charges.

www.espn.com

Can we stop calling it speculation yet?

Sure! Right after you show exactly where in that article it explicitly states that the players named are the same players asked to surrender.

Oh, wait - that's not in there? Then no - we can't stop calling it speculation.

 

[AlphaLackey]

So they think rationally enough to induce their partners to confirm consent on camera to avoid assault charges as a matter of course, but not rationally enough to carefully select their partners?

Do you see how that makes absolutely zero sense?

If they made it a matter of habit to document consent after the fact, yes. Either you can't or simply won't factor in just how horny young men can be, and can't or won't factor in how men and women alike engage in statistically-unfounded safety measures.

I promise you, right now, on campuses in America, there are men who are hooking up with women are recording the entire counter for these purposes.

 

[Profet]

Even ESPN is speculating on the players. It’s still not confirmed.

I mean... that's one way to read the article.

But even if they are speculating, as a trusted news source... wouldn't their speculation open the door for us to talk about it?

 

[Lazlo Hollyfeld]

In my case I'm extremely sympathetic to the victim with little to offer that side of the conversation except my sympathy. However, I believe it's dangerous to propagate the illusion that the real world is a safe place for young people, and I see a lot of good natured people doing that here.

I don't think anyone is really arguing the world is a safe place. But I don't see how monday morning quarterbacking what the victim could have done different is particularly helpful.

If you go to a gas station and get shot by someone trying to rob the place, the obvious answer is if only you hadn't gone to that gas station you wouldn't have been shot.

And again, it's the one-sided nature of the conversation. There's a lesson about alcohol, and what constitutes consent for everyone involved in this incident.

 

[sepster]

Thank God you're back - you were gone long enough that I was worried people would think we thread-banned you for your "my free speech!" stuff.

Yeah well, I have an actual job and responsibilities that require my attention from time to time.

Thank you for the concern.

 

[The Grim Reaper]

Some of us are just general experts ok???

I just finished Ron Chernow's book "Grant". I'm confident that I could have led the Union Armies.

 

[NotASheep]

can we having a running tab of how many posts get deleted for this thread?

 

[ps241]

Because our super-awesome Canadian justice system states that if they were a minor when the act was committed, the YCJA act still applies.

Not so much if they're tried as adults though, which may be the case here.

Most of the players on that Canada team were either 18 or 19 in June of 2018.

 

[Aoko]

"A good way to not be falsely accused of rape is to never have sex" is some fine victim blaming.

If you think what I said is victim blaming, you need to be educated.