Five members from Canada’s 2018 world junior team (Hart, McLeod, Dube, Foote and Formenton) told to surrender to police, facing sexual assault charges

[SannywithoutCompy]

Exactly what I thought.

I spent ten minutes in a room watching a bunch of my buddies having sex with some girl. I couldn't quite tell exactly what was going on. I couldn't determine whether it was consensual or assault. Ultimately, despite watching for 10 minutes, I still couldn't tell so I just left.

I didn't say anything because at the end of the day I was too much of a p***y and worried that my bro's would be pissed at me. Again, it wasn't clear whether it was consensual sex or sexual assault. Still processing.

I'd like the name of this pillar of society. He may not have done anything illegal, but he's certainly no moral giant. Might not want him first on the scene when an old lady is getting mugged. This p***y wouldn't want to, like you know, get involved and help someone.

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

Exactly what I thought.

I spent ten minutes in a room watching a bunch of my buddies having sex with some girl. I couldn't quite tell exactly what was going on. I couldn't determine whether it was consensual or assault. Ultimately, despite watching for 10 minutes, I still couldn't tell so I just left.

I didn't say anything because at the end of the day I was too much of a p***y and worried that my bro's would be pissed at me. Again, it wasn't clear whether it was consensual sex or sexual assault. Still processing.

I'd like the name of this pillar of society. He may not have done anything illegal, but he's certainly no moral giant. Might not want him first on the scene when an old lady is getting mugged. This p***y wouldn't want to, like you know, get involved and help someone.

I suppose its possible that the girl was so messed up that it was hard to determine whether it was consensual or not....that's the only way I could figure he wasn't sure

Teen guy walks in for Za, sees a live porn show happening and he’s not gonna watch for a bit… he has no idea it’s assault… human nature is to assume the best so assault likely didn’t even enter his thoughts

I somewhat agree with you , its not always clear cut....but still it's not a great look

 

[Jacob]

Basically this.

Another way to put it:

100% of false allegations of sexual assault are reported to police (duh!)
Only 8-10% of actual sexual assaults are reported to police.

Making a direct comparison between something that is 100% reported to something that is only 8-10% reported is disingenuous.

If you don't accuse someone you can't falsely accuse them.

 

[Pucklington]

Basically this.

Another way to put it:

100% of false allegations of sexual assault are reported to police (duh!)
Only 8-10% of actual sexual assaults are reported to police.

Making a direct comparison between something that is 100% reported to something that is only 8-10% reported is disingenuous.

And the tiny % of reports false allegations actually make up...

Either way, let's just wait and see.

 

[SannywithoutCompy]

I suppose its possible that the girl was so messed up that it was hard to determine whether it was consensual or not....that's the only way I could figure he wasn't sure


I somewhat agree with you , its not always clear cut....but still it's not a great look

It would certainly be odd to just sit in the cuck chair and study it for 10 minutes before deeming it inconclusive and leaving

 

[Dr Pepper]

That seems a little much. Sex parties are a thing. Stumbling across one out of context doesn’t give you an onus or even a reasonable right to intervene and start asking about consent, unless there’s a clear reason to do so (e.g. cries for help) which doesn’t appear to have been the case.

We need to see justice on this, but not a fan of this idea that there’s a huge moral onus on people to do vigilante investigations or even call the cops when they’re “not sure what they’re seeing”. Historically that has not ended well.

Sure, but this anonymous player still chose to keep his mouth shut even now, refusing to name names, knowing full well what he saw has led us to where we are now?

 

[sepster]

"shit happens and life goes on" is quite a way to describe a gang rape

I did not describe gang rape as shit happens.

I described being presented with traumatic life events as shit happens.

Making the jump from my quote to your assumption is you making the assumption that the alleged players are guilty.

 

[Sigh]

10 minutes? Gotta act caj and finish your slices bro

 

[Three On Zero]

It's possible - I can confirm that I've participated in two-thirds of a threesome before.

Heresay! I’ll need an official source on these claims

 

[PatrickEaves]

Exactly what I thought.

I spent ten minutes in a room watching a bunch of my buddies having sex with some girl. I couldn't quite tell exactly what was going on. I couldn't determine whether it was consensual or assault. Ultimately, despite watching for 10 minutes, I still couldn't tell so I just left.

I didn't say anything because at the end of the day I was too much of a p***y and worried that my bro's would be pissed at me. Again, it wasn't clear whether it was consensual sex or sexual assault. Still processing.

I'd like the name of this pillar of society. He may not have done anything illegal, but he's certainly no moral giant. Might not want him first on the scene when an old lady is getting mugged. This p***y wouldn't want to, like you know, get involved and help someone.

Dude, 10 minutes isn't as long as you think it is. You're like a fifth of the way through character creation in a BG3 after 10 minutes.

 

[CanMerc]

I suppose its possible that the girl was so messed up that it was hard to determine whether it was consensual or not....that's the only way I could figure he wasn't sure


I somewhat agree with you , its not always clear cut....but still it's not a great look

No it’s not, but this is the problem with judging the past with todays standards.
For all we know, consensual group sex is common in those circles, and this was just another day in his view

 

[Ted Hoffman]

Some people would be surprised at how many members of the media, families of players, and some players themselves peruse this site.

I'd be surprised of the answer is above 0 lol.

You ... might want to sit down, because I can say for sure the answer is way above 0.

And that holds true for people who work in the front office of an NHL team. People would be really surprised how many front office people browse HF.

 

[swiftwin]

If you don't accuse someone you can't falsely accuse them.

Exactly. That's why 100% of false accusations are accusations. You can't make a false accusation if you don't accuse someone.

 

[Number8]

I suppose its possible that the girl was so messed up that it was hard to determine whether it was consensual or not....that's the only way I could figure he wasn't sure


I somewhat agree with you , its not always clear cut....but still it's not a great look

I get it. Still, as you say, it's a terrible look. I hope everyone involved on the team side is having an extremely difficult time with this -- either legally or with their conscience.

She and her family have to live with this -- hope they are haunted by it for as long as she is plus some.

 

[super6646]

You ... might want to sit down, because I can say for sure the answer is way above 0.

And that holds true for people who work in the front office of an NHL team. People would be really surprised how many front office people browse HF.

I meant this more in jest. I'm sure there are ppl in hockey circles that follow this site.

 

[TrufleShufle]

Exactly. That's why 100% of false accusations are accusations. You can't make a false accusation if you don't accuse someone.

Didn't Gretzky say that?

 

[PatrickEaves]

Exactly. That's why 100% of false accusations are accusations. You can't make a false accusation if you don't accuse someone.

Actually. 100% of proven false accusations are counted. False accusations that aren't proven as false accusations are counted as rape accusations.

 

[MXD]

I suppose its possible that the girl was so messed up that it was hard to determine whether it was consensual or not....that's the only way I could figure he wasn't sure

It which case, it can't be consensual.

 

[CanMerc]

I get it. Still, as you say, it's a terrible look. I hope everyone involved on the team side is having an extremely difficult time with this -- either legally or with their conscience.

She and her family have to live with this -- hope they are haunted by it for as long as she is plus some.

That guy, if he’s human, is likely blaming himself constantly for not seeing what was happening and at least calling someone… imagine what he’s living with knowing now what he saw then

 

[Jeune Poulet]

At last!

May justice prevail for all, including those who distorted or hid the truth.

 

[swiftwin]

I get it. Still, as you say, it's a terrible look. I hope everyone involved on the team side is having an extremely difficult time with this -- either legally or with their conscience.

She and her family have to live with this -- hope they are haunted by it for as long as she is plus some.

That's a little harsh, no?

We have no details on the specifics of the non-intervention. The bystander effect is a very real thing that affects most people, especially when it's unclear whether a crime is actually being committed. It's a bit easy to armchair this when you weren't there and don't have the full picture, especially when that person didn't have the full picture at the time either.

 

[CanMerc]

my cousins, friends, brothers, girlfriends, mothers, doctors, mechanics favorite players teammate is likely on the list of 5

 

[SmytheKing]

I see a lot of people forget what’s it’s like to be a teen guy…..

I don't. I was on a hockey trip with my team up to Edmonton when we were 16-18 years old. We met a few girls in the food court of the West Edmonton Mall and they came up to our room in the hotel in there. One of them, when asked what they do around there (we weren't the best conversationalists), said they drank and ****ed. Another one asked if we had any alcohol and I asked how old they were. One said 14 and we told them to GTFO of the room immediately.

Basically, you know when something isn't right or you don't care. I get that being told yes all the time when you're a high level athlete as a kid makes it harder to reign in bad behavior, but this isn't just that. I can't think of a time I ever did something wrong when I was a kid where I didn't know it was wrong. You just think you'll get away with it.

 

[Mike C]

Right?

Name the five that are going to be charged, so the rest of the team can at least know they're finally in the clear.

I'm interested in seeing how the NHL's higher ups react to this news, once the names are released. Not a guarantee all five are current NHLers, nor were they NHLers at the time of the incident.

I suspect those who didn't participate already know they're in the clear eh?

 

[Bear of Bad News]

Pro tip: if you're starting your post with "Not speculating, but...", I'd recommend carefully reviewing what follows the ellipses.

It's the thread equivalent of "No offense, but...".