Five members from Canada’s 2018 world junior team (Hart, McLeod, Dube, Foote and Formenton) told to surrender to police, facing sexual assault charges

[snag]

Within the Cdn judicial system, at what age are you tried as a juvenile vs an adult?

18. But there are exceptions to that. However, even if they are minors tried as as an adult, their names are usually still not released.

 

[super6646]

Very unlikely. It’s probably an open secret among NHL teams at this point who was involved and his team said he is under the care of a mental health team.

Could it be a lie? Yeah, but saying that it is definitely a lie is way too far. If we get another name later today from that team, it just shows the other player was taking a legitimate mental health leave.

Didn't say it was definitely a lie, I'm just saying its one of the possibilities. I agree that I find it hard to believe the organization was entirely out of the loop, but it isn't an entirely unfeasible situation either. Again, IMO 3 possibilities:

Player lied/misled to the team, team lied/misled in the PR statement, or its just rotten luck. I don't buy the last explanation at this point given what we know.

 

[Coffey]

You should see the suggestions that have been submitted to us over the contact form over the years - although they usually involve me participating with myself.

Can you get an infraction for those messages?

 

[CanMerc]

You should see the suggestions that have been submitted to us over the contact form over the years - although they usually involve me participating with myself.

I think I’ve sent some of those…lol

 

[joestevens29]

It's possible - I can confirm that I've participated in two-thirds of a threesome before.

Was there at least one female involved? If not case closed

 

[Jee]

Very unlikely. It’s probably an open secret among NHL teams at this point who was involved and his team said he is under the care of a mental health team.

you mean there was speculation within nhl teams?!

 

[Bear of Bad News]

Can you get an infraction for those messages?

You get a pretty long leash on the contact forum. Death threats, doxxing, and whatnot are probably still not advised.

 

[VivaLasVegas]

Merely noting that a defendant living in the U.S. could refuse to appear and instead fight extradition to Canada. Probably would fail due to extradition treaties, but they might be some substantial time of freedom during the extradition fight to get their affairs in order.

 

[T REX]

Do you have receipts for the bolded statistic?

It actually much less than that. Here's an excerpt from a well known sociologist on the topic. Feel free to "keep the receipts".

"How common are false allegations of rape or sexual assault?

One commonly cited figure holds that 5 percent of rape allegations are found to be false, but that figure paints a very incomplete picture, says Belknap. Typically, this figure comes from studies done on college students, an estimated 95 percent of whom do not report their assaults to police. Overall, an estimated 8 to 10 percent of women are thought to report their rapes to the police, which means that — at the very highest — we can infer that 90 percent of rapes go unreported, says Belknap. Obviously, only those rapes that are reported in the first place can be considered falsely reported, so that 5 percent figure only applies to 10 percent (at most) of rapes that occur. This puts the actual false allegation figure closer to 0.5 percent.

Of course, these figures are estimates, and Belknap doesn’t doubt they’re imperfect — we can’t count what isn’t being counted. But her research suggests that, if anything, we underestimate the number of rapes that go unreported."

 

[Coffey]

You get a pretty long leash on the contact forum. Death threats, doxxing, and whatnot are probably still not advised.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

Was there at least one female involved? If not case closed

 

[The Gr8 Dane]

I kind of felt bad for the guy when he said, he kind of stumbled upon a group of guys having sex with a woman and didn't know what to do until he said he stayed there for 10 mins lol

Exactly , I get it , you open the door and you can't tell if its consensual group sex or something far worse going on , but 10 minutes?!?!?! Nonsense

 

[Ghost of Murph]

Given that when the Corey Perry story broke half the internet was saying he slept with Bedard's mom, I can understand hfboards wanting to be careful to not be accused of being the source of any false allegations.

Twitter has much deeper pockets but a privately run hockey forum seems like low hanging fruit if a player's lawyer is looking for someone to sue to make a point or hope for a settlement.

Your example is a good one.

HFBoards is not run by some hobbyist in his basement. It's the largest and most prominent hockey forum on the planet. It's owned by a company. Some people would be surprised at how many members of the media, families of players, and some players themselves peruse this site. When it comes to a topic such as this one it only makes sense for the mods to have a short leash.

 

[Empoleon8771]

you mean there was speculation within nhl teams?!

Andy Strickland just tweeted something that suggests that’s the case. Can’t link it because it lists a players name, but go check out his twitter.

It seems like at least some of the names were known to be involved in this among NHL circles.

 

[PatrickEaves]

All this seems to make sense until they casually drop that he was in there for 10 whole minutes ...... fishy

How long do you think 10 minutes is? You go up for pizza, and while eating you notice that some guys that may or may not be friends are having group sex off in the corner (not no obvious indication - allegedly - that its not consensual, and that they arent into being watched) , and you're like wtf dude, that's weird.

You finish your pizza and go alright I'm out, you guys do you.

10 minutes seems reasonable.

 

[abax44]

Pizza and a show. I would've stuck around, too. /s

 

[CanMerc]

Exactly , I get it , you open the door and you can't tell if its consensual group sex or something far worse going on , but 10 minutes?!?!?! Nonsense

I see a lot of people forget what’s it’s like to be a teen guy…..

 

[tarheelhockey]

That seems a little much. Sex parties are a thing. Stumbling across one out of context doesn’t give you an onus or even a reasonable right to intervene and start asking about consent, unless there’s a clear reason to do so (e.g. cries for help) which doesn’t appear to have been the case.

We need to see justice on this, but not a fan of this idea that there’s a huge moral onus on people to do vigilante investigations or even call the cops when they’re “not sure what they’re seeing”. Historically that has not ended well.

 

[SSMHoundsFan]

It actually much less than that. Here's an excerpt from a well known sociologist on the topic. Feel free to "keep the receipts".

"How common are false allegations of rape or sexual assault?

One commonly cited figure holds that 5 percent of rape allegations are found to be false, but that figure paints a very incomplete picture, says Belknap. Typically, this figure comes from studies done on college students, an estimated 95 percent of whom do not report their assaults to police. Overall, an estimated 8 to 10 percent of women are thought to report their rapes to the police, which means that — at the very highest — we can infer that 90 percent of rapes go unreported, says Belknap. Obviously, only those rapes that are reported in the first place can be considered falsely reported, so that 5 percent figure only applies to 10 percent (at most) of rapes that occur. This puts the actual false allegation figure closer to 0.5 percent.

Of course, these figures are estimates, and Belknap doesn’t doubt they’re imperfect — we can’t count what isn’t being counted. But her research suggests that, if anything, we underestimate the number of rapes that go unreported."

Working for a lawyer that handles alot of sexual assault cases, I can tell you it's higher than 5%....

 

[Jee]

I see a lot of people forget what’s it’s like to be a teen guy…..

dahell youre talking about, not all teens are degenerate

 

[super6646]

Your example is a good one.

HFBoards is not run by some hobbyist in his basement. It's the largest and most prominent hockey forum on the planet. It's owned by a company. Some people would be surprised at how many members of the media, families of players, and some players themselves peruse this site. When it comes to a topic such as this one it only makes sense for the mods to have a short leash.

I'd be surprised of the answer is above 0 lol. No offence to my fellow jabronis, but no one in the hockey world should take 95% of the discourse seriously. The prospects and hockey history parts are actually pretty solid, but otherwise.... nah.

 

[Number8]

All this seems to make sense until they casually drop that he was in there for 10 whole minutes ...... fishy

Exactly what I thought.

I spent ten minutes in a room watching a bunch of my buddies having sex with some girl. I couldn't quite tell exactly what was going on. I couldn't determine whether it was consensual or assault. Ultimately, despite watching for 10 minutes, I still couldn't tell so I just left.

I didn't say anything because at the end of the day I was too much of a p***y and worried that my bro's would be pissed at me. Again, it wasn't clear whether it was consensual sex or sexual assault. Still processing.

I'd like the name of this pillar of society. He may not have done anything illegal, but he's certainly no moral giant. Might not want him first on the scene when an old lady is getting mugged. This p***y wouldn't want to, like you know, get involved and help someone.

 

[swiftwin]

It actually much less than that. Here's an excerpt from a well known sociologist on the topic. Feel free to "keep the receipts".

"How common are false allegations of rape or sexual assault?

One commonly cited figure holds that 5 percent of rape allegations are found to be false, but that figure paints a very incomplete picture, says Belknap. Typically, this figure comes from studies done on college students, an estimated 95 percent of whom do not report their assaults to police. Overall, an estimated 8 to 10 percent of women are thought to report their rapes to the police, which means that — at the very highest — we can infer that 90 percent of rapes go unreported, says Belknap. Obviously, only those rapes that are reported in the first place can be considered falsely reported, so that 5 percent figure only applies to 10 percent (at most) of rapes that occur. This puts the actual false allegation figure closer to 0.5 percent.

Of course, these figures are estimates, and Belknap doesn’t doubt they’re imperfect — we can’t count what isn’t being counted. But her research suggests that, if anything, we underestimate the number of rapes that go unreported."

Basically this.

Another way to put it:

100% of false allegations of sexual assault are reported to police (duh!)
Only 8-10% of actual sexual assaults are reported to police.

Making a direct comparison between something that is 100% reported to something that is only 8-10% reported is disingenuous.

 

[Kairi Zaide]

I see a lot of people forget what’s it’s like to be a teen guy…..

I don't think having a functional brain as a teen is that rare, no.

 

[CanMerc]

dahell youre talking about, not all teens are degenerate

Teen guy walks in for Za, sees a live porn show happening and he’s not gonna watch for a bit… he has no idea it’s assault… human nature is to assume the best so assault likely didn’t even enter his thoughts.
Theres no reports of her screaming or fighting, and he’s likely had girls throw themselves at him for years as a high end athlete… why would he think something bad was happening…
we are looking back at this with current knowledge, where as he was living it in the moment