Five members from Canada’s 2018 world junior team (Hart, McLeod, Dube, Foote and Formenton) told to surrender to police, facing sexual assault charges

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

These choices of words just makes you think that he was the only conscious person and every other persons involved were a bunch of vegetables without their own will.

I see it both ways. It does sort of come off like you say, but at the same time, it's also fair to say that none of this at all transpires without JD1 facilitating it for them. It's hard to believe that anyone partaking wouldn't be capable or didn't have intentions to do the same, but it deserves pointing out imo.

 

[Straight Fire]

I'm kind of shocked at this thread in a way.

The proper wishes should be:

First: That the claims are false as then the woman wouldn't be suffering the effects of sexual assault.

I wonder how many people wish for ^^^^.

Second: That if true, the full details be proved and the scope of the assault be articulated and revealed so that the appropriate judgements be meted out. Tied to all of this would be that the woman be able to get the help and resolution she needs to recover as much as possible.

I haven't been following this thread but to me the massive interest seems warped, similar to the Depp/Heard case.

Again I wonder how many people actually wish from the outset that the complainant is lying as in reality in such a case then, the minimum amount of damage exists.

 

[TheMadHatTrick]

Embarrassing

Yes you are. At least we know what your agenda is. Anyone else?

 

[SmytheKing]

I'm curious how many people in here still think Trevor Bauer is guilty of sexual assault?

Since the prevailing argument here seems to be, "let it play out in court", I guess we'll never know right? Without a trial, how do we REALLY know? We haven't been able to see all of the evidence so it's really impossible to determine guilt or innocence at this point.

Or, is the argument that since charges weren't brought by the D.A. that it proves he was innocent? If so, does that infer that if charges are brought that they are guilty? Or is that different somehow?

 

[TheMadHatTrick]

Since the prevailing argument here seems to be, "let it play out in court", I guess we'll never know right? Without a trial, how do we REALLY know? We haven't been able to see all of the evidence so it's really impossible to determine guilt or innocence at this point.

Or, is the argument that since charges weren't brought by the D.A. that it proves he was innocent? If so, does that infer that if charges are brought that they are guilty? Or is that different somehow?

These guys may or may not be guilty. My curiosity is more about people who refuse to change their minds in light of evidence. Those people are in the sunken place.

 

[Kane One]

Since the prevailing argument here seems to be, "let it play out in court", I guess we'll never know right? Without a trial, how do we REALLY know? We haven't been able to see all of the evidence so it's really impossible to determine guilt or innocence at this point.

Or, is the argument that since charges weren't brought by the D.A. that it proves he was innocent? If so, does that infer that if charges are brought that they are guilty? Or is that different somehow?

No, one of the cases against him had proof to be a lie. There are text messages with the woman and her friend saying she’s “targeting Bauer next.”

 

[SmytheKing]

No, one of the cases against him had proof to be a lie.

Can you show me the proof that was presented in court? I'd like to see it.

These guys may or may not be guilty. My curiosity is more about people who refuse to change their minds in light of evidence. Those people are in the sunken place.

I would also like to see the evidence that was presented in court. Maybe you have a link to it?

 

[Kane One]

Can you show me the proof that was presented in court? I'd like to see it.

Just edited my post. You can google it yourself, but I provided more info.

 

[SmytheKing]

Just edited my post. You can google it yourself, but I provided more info.

I'm at work and don't have time to google it. Just link me to the court records please. I'll read it later. Thank you.

 

[Pierce Hawthorne]

Yes you are. At least we know what your agenda is. Anyone else?

Extremely ironic.

 

[TheMadHatTrick]

Can you show me the proof that was presented in court? I'd like to see it.


I would also like to see the evidence that was presented in court. Maybe you have a link to it?

Well, I guess I know whose opinion to ignore here. You're clearly arguing in bad faith. Bauer is a scumbag of a person but the amount of exculpatory evidence in his favor speaks for itself. It's why charges were never brought and her civil case dropped.

Extremely ironic.

Sure bud.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

I’m beginning to think the original investigation might’ve been covered up.

Wouldn't surprise me. The London Knights get away with murder (not literally) in that city. Granted, maybe not *this* specific type of thing, but you'd be surprised (or maybe not) at the stuff they'll look the other way about when it comes to the Knights and high profile athletes in that city in general.

 

[VivaLasVegas]

Since the prevailing argument here seems to be, "let it play out in court", I guess we'll never know right? Without a trial, how do we REALLY know? We haven't been able to see all of the evidence so it's really impossible to determine guilt or innocence at this point.

The hard truth is that unless somebody invents a time machine, we are never going to know what really happened. The court process does the best it can with the evidence available, but really just reaches a determination of what amounts to the best guess of what happened so as to bring the matter to conclusion. Since we also have no better way of determining what happened, those of us not involved with the court process will have to accept that result as well.

Speculating on what might be without seeing the evidence is quite probably wasted energy.

 

[Gregor Samsa]

I'm kind of shocked at this thread in a way.

The proper wishes should be:

First: That the claims are false as then the woman wouldn't be suffering the effects of sexual assault.

I wonder how many people wish for ^^^^.

Second: That if true, the full details be proved and the scope of the assault be articulated and revealed so that the appropriate judgements be meted out. Tied to all of this would be that the woman be able to get the help and resolution she needs to recover as much as possible.

I haven't been following this thread but to me the massive interest seems warped, similar to the Depp/Heard case.

Again I wonder how many people actually wish from the outset that the complainant is lying as in reality in such a case then, the minimum amount of damage exists.

If someone is hoping the accusations are untrue then that is being skeptical of the victim’s claim. It seems in rape cases there are 2 starting points: the victim is lying, or the victim is to be believed. Everyone who says they want to see it out in court generally show their bias. They will only comment on the people they call the mob but they won’t say “let’s see how it plays out in court” to the people who are skeptical of the victim. I am of the belief that a victim who comes forth should be believed until proven otherwise

ETA: also a lying accuser (not a not guilty verdict but a purely bullshit allegation) could get jail time and would suffer many repercussions

 

[TheMadHatTrick]

The hard truth is that unless somebody invents a time machine, we are never going to know what really happened. The court process does the best it can with the evidence available, but really just reaches a determination of what amounts to the best guess of what happened so as to bring the matter to conclusion. Since we also have no better way of determining what happened, those of us not involved with the court process will have to accept that result as well.

Speculating on what might be without seeing the evidence is quite probably wasted energy.

Also, courts do not determine innocence. Only guilty and not guilty. I'm pretty agnostic as to the actual conclusion of this case, but I'm at least open to having evidence determine my position not pre-conceptions. Some people are dug into their opinion on both sides.

 

[Melrose Munch]

I'm curious how many people in here still think Trevor Bauer is guilty of sexual assault?

Why does Trevor Bauer matter here?

 

[AnInjuredJasonZucker]

We've got another one who's prioritizing the hardship of men, for whom the plight of false allegations amounts to a rounding error, over women who have to overcome an entire system that is champing at the bit to protect their abusers.

Thinks he's making a profound point and doesn't realize that his point is already foundational.

 

[TheMadHatTrick]

Why does Trevor Bauer matter here?

I'll take that as a yes.

 

[I am toxic]

Here is what was said in the late summer early fall of 2022 by members of that 2018 world junior team.

Several things stand out, but I won't address them here.

The one thing I will say is Cal Foote's agent at the time (still?) needs to be investigated by the NHL to determine whether he knowingly or unwittingly lied about his client's involvement.

 

[BackToTheBrierePatch]

Why does Trevor Bauer matter here?

Oh no you have been added

 

[TheMadHatTrick]

For the idiots who keep repeating this claim as though its disposative, the number of accusations proven false is between 2 and 10%. That figure only includes claims that were clearly proven to be false and not claims which could not be adjudicated either way. Conversely, only between 5 and 10% of accusations result in convictions (I.e., proven to be clearly true). Virtually identical. The great majority are indetermined. That's just the reality because these things tend to happen in private.

 

[SmytheKing]

Well, I guess I know whose opinion to ignore here. You're clearly arguing in bad faith. Bauer is a scumbag of a person but the amount of exculpatory evidence in his favor speaks for itself. It's why charges were never brought and her civil case dropped.


Sure bud.

Bro I'm just asking to see the proof that you've clearly seen which would lead you to your determination. I'm not sure why you think there's any agenda here.

Like everyone says in this case here, wait until we see all the evidence. I haven't seen any of it other than statements by him that he's innocent. Since we can't judge someone guilty by the alleged victim statements, I'll go ahead and presume we can't judge someone innocent based on the statements of the accused.

So, again, I'll ask for a link to the evidence presented in the case. I'm not sure why it's so hard to show me. There's got to be a record of it being presented to a judge or something.

Further, if charges not being brought speaks for itself, then don't charges being brought also speak too? It's not bad faith to ask for consistency in an argument. However, being hypocritical sure does show a side.

 

[Gregor Samsa]

Here is what was said in the late summer early fall of 2022 by members of that 2018 world junior team.

Several things stand out, but I won't address them here.

The one thing I will say is Cal Foote's agent at the time (still?) needs to be investigated by the NHL to determine whether he knowingly or unwittingly lied about his client's involvement.

Looking through these lawyer written statements, I think it’s pretty easy to tell who may be a witness, if the statements are to be believed word for word

ETA: the one pizza guy rumors makes some sense if you take these at 100% face value. The Fabbro statement makes me chuckle for some reason

 

[Oscar The Grouch]

I'm kind of shocked at this thread in a way.

The proper wishes should be:

First: That the claims are false as then the woman wouldn't be suffering the effects of sexual assault.

What? The woman is suffering from the effects, regardless of what a court finds. You think if the the players are found not guilty, the woman will all of a sudden be ok? And say: oh, I guess I wasn't assaulted.

This thread is so weird.

 

[OG Eberle]

For the idiots who keep repeating this claim as though its disposative, the number of accusations proven false is between 2 and 10 percent. That figure only includes claims that were clearly proven to be false and not claims which could not be adjudicated either way. Conversely, only between 5 and 10% of accusations result in convictions (I.e., proven to be clearly true). The great majority are indetermined. That's just the reality because these things tend to happen in private.

The only reason I can see you randomly walking into this thread on a hockey forum about 5 players being charged with sexual assault of a female years ago, and bringing up Trevor Bauer and "adding people to the list" who question why you're doing this or talk about the differences between the two cases is because you are either a) trying to play Devil's Advocate at a really weird time or b) dancing around the fact that you think there is actual merit to her lying about this scenario happening.

And if I'm misinterpretting your actions/words here, I and probably a lot of people in here, would welcome some clarity as to your intentions. But assuming you're not and my reading of your posts are correct, against my better judgement, I'll indugle you.

Question for your own bias: since she recieved $3million payout years ago over this civilly, what probable cause would she have to continue to talk to the police and aid in the investigation if she didn't actually feel she was harmed? She's got the money. She can't get anything else from a criminal court ruling. There was a police report filed the morning after the alleged incident. The fact that they felt the need to get "consent videos" at like 3am in the morning with her naked for like 6s in length each after the alleged incident happened seems like a very abnormal thing to do in a consensual relationship. What would be her angle for dragging this out further? She has the money and anonymity if this was all false. What else is to be gained?