Five members from Canada’s 2018 world junior team (Hart, McLeod, Dube, Foote and Formenton) told to surrender to police, facing sexual assault charges

[Melrose Munch]

Not sure if you are joking or not. I've been in "hockey culture" my whole life and as abhorrent as this situation is, it is NOT a representative of hockey culture. Quite the opposite.

BS! This is not even the first Rape Scandal in the past 2 years.

 

[Harvey Birdman]

At the end of the day, it's privilege. Jocks, rich kids, kids with connections...anyone that has any kind of golden ticket gets to play by a different set of rules in the amateur sporting and academic world. And it needs to change.

In my opinion, hockey is hit with a double whammy simply because it has become a sport for the upper economic classes over the last two decades, and how iconic the game is regarded in Canada (especially in smaller junior hockey towns across the country).

It’s not privilege. It’s disconnection. People that often act upon others with sexual assault have a disconnection with the person or persons they are committing it against. You can be disconnected personally if you are poor, middle class, or upper class. I’m not privileged at all by any means, middle class born and raised. And when I was sexually assaulted it wasn’t by anyone in privilege, by all metrics, the people that assaulted me were lower than myself economically then and still are. But I do know that they had a disconnection from their peers. Something in their life severed it. That disconnection can happen to anyone. The homeless person that’s just had it with society and suffers a mental break all the way up too the privileged rich kid that views everyone in the world as their servants. But blaming where people come from will do very little to solve the issue, it’s a mental health issue, there will always be people of privilege. There will always be poor. And hopefully always an upward moving middle class. But the problem is a mental health issue.

 

[Melrose Munch]

 

[iCanada]

Further to this that seems to be going over many "devils advocate" minds;

not explictly saying "yes" also = no

Again, cause someone is bound to say I'm judging these 5 before the court, etc...,

All my posts are about consent and with a context to sex. I don't have an opinion on this specific case as I don't have specific facts outside of names of the accused and the allegations. But it seems there is a not-insignificant population here that seems clueless as to what "consent to sex" looks like initially and throughout the process. And many seem to have a very strong opinion on this in spite of that...

Scary shit if you ask me.

They're all being intentionally obtuse, not sure it's worth getting sucked into the argument, because I'm quite sure they'd understand consent and all it's intricacies if the hot girl who invited them home from the bar waited until he agreed to sex before waiving in a Ronnie Coleman looking MFer yelling"yeah buddy!"

 

[T REX]

I want to know who the other 3 in the room were, they are just a guilty for being bystanders. Absolute cowards.

Been trying to say this for a while and was attacked several times.

These guys are done in the NHL as well. Their names will eventually come out. Radioactive.

 

[Uncle Rotter]

Just for the sake of comparison, Jake Virtanen was charged with sexual assault in January 2022 and the trial and verdict was over by the end of July of the same year.

Obviously every case is going to be different and we’re looking at BC vs Ontario but your timeline seems off.

Bigger trial backlog in Ontario apparently

 

[oldunclehue]

Been trying to say this for a while and was attacked several times.

These guys are done in the NHL as well. Their names will eventually come out. Radioactive.

There was the one who released a statement that he was in the room to start and once sex started happening he left as he didn't want to be a part of it.

We don't know how the situation went down, could of been first guy is hooking up with the female and 7 others barge in for a laugh. Then it takes a shitty turn and guys start to want to join. One or three decide they didn't sign up for this and leave before much happens.

I guarentee this situation wasn't 8 guys walks in a room with a passed out girl, 5 have their way with her and leave.

 

[Regal]

Been trying to say this for a while and was attacked several times.

These guys are done in the NHL as well. Their names will eventually come out. Radioactive.

Like almost all things in sports, it will depend on how good they are. If they’re bit players I can see them cast off with feigned disdain, but a star will be excused. Maybe some time off. But I think you underestimate the public’s apathy and hockey exec’s desire to win.

 

[Frank Drebin]

So I was very curious to hear what the fellas on spittin chiclets had to say about this whole ordeal.

They ignored the issue completely on this past weeks episode. I imagine if they speak out at all some skeletons may come crawling out of the closet.

edit: I guess they made a statement that they weren't going to speak on this till its all settled. I thought they would have addressed this in the latest pod.

 

[Rich Nixon]

We don't know how the situation went down, could of been first guy is hooking up with the female and 7 others barge in for a laugh. Then it takes a shitty turn and guys start to want to join. One or three decide they didn't sign up for this and leave before much happens.

I guarentee this situation wasn't 8 guys walks in a room with a passed out girl, 5 have their way with her and leave.

There have been a lot of posts in this thread that state "we don't know x" when we, in fact, do. As per the Fifth Estate documentaries, we know that one player reportedly had consensual sex with the alleged victim and then texted the group to invite them up to join in some sort of sex act. We don't know what exact word he used, because that hasn't been reported--just characterized as I have here. But based on reporting, it seems established that players who received that specific text would have come to the room for a specific purpose.

 

[Cleatus]

Wouldn't it be a coincidence if one day a girl falsely accused you of doing something to her and your jury was built with people with that mindset?

As much as it sucks for people that get falsely accused, 99% of the time, rape accusations are real.

So odds are, none of us will ever be accused of rape, unless we actually commit it.

 

[Bard Marchand]

So I was very curious to hear what the fellas on spittin chiclets had to say about this whole ordeal.

They ignored the issue completely on this past weeks episode. I imagine if they speak out at all some skeletons may come crawling out of the closet.

For real, it's the biggest hockey story in months and they didn't even touch it. I am disappointed but I guess I am not surprised. They have been playing everything safe since they got JR fired.

At this point, they are probably rolling in the cash so they have a lot to lose if they say something stupid.

 

[oldunclehue]

There have been a lot of posts in this thread that state "we don't know x" when we, in fact, do. As per the Fifth Estate documentaries, we know that one player reportedly had consensual sex with the alleged victim and then texted the group to invite them up to join in some sort of sex act. We don't know what exact word he used, because that hasn't been reported--just characterized as I have here. But based on reporting, it seems established that players who received that specific text would have come to the room for a specific purpose.

You are making a lot of assumptions. 5 players were charged, meaning there were reasonable and probable grounds to charge 5 with various sexual assault related offences. The other three that were there were not charged therefore in the eyes of the law haven't committed an offence.

We also don't know what those three's roles were. Like I said one player of the 8 released a statement early on saying he was initially in the room and then left without having any physical contact with the victim.

That was my point in my post....we cant vilify the three players not charged as we don't know at all what the situation was...and can't expect 19 year old's to say "this is wrong, I better stop this" when the situation likely unfolded far differently than people who've never been in this type of situation believe.

I agree, one player was involved off the bat and sent a text, a group arrived. From there we have no clue. Those other 7 may have walked in the room for a laugh, then 4 others decided stupidly to take a part in the sex acts. The other three may have arrived, and said not my thing and left at different points.

I can tell you as someone who played hockey at a decently high level and attended many parties....the situations unfold quickly and often include very inebriated players and women.

I was lucky enough and smart enough not to put myself in situations where group sex acts were performed....but they happened but consent was never an issue in the ones I heard about.

So I don't think we are in a place to say "why didn't the other three stop the act, they should be ruined as people as well" just yet.

 

[Rich Nixon]

You are making a lot of assumptions. 5 players were charged, meaning there were reasonable and probable grounds to charge 5 with various sexual assault related offences. The other three that were there were not charged therefore in the eyes of the law haven't committed an offence.

We also don't know what those three's roles were. Like I said one player of the 8 released a statement early on saying he was initially in the room and then left without having any physical contact with the victim.

That was my point in my post....we cant vilify the three players not charged as we don't know at all what the situation was...and can't expect 19 year old's to say "this is wrong, I better stop this" when the situation likely unfolded far differently than people who've never been in this type of situation believe.

I agree, one player was involved off the bat and sent a text, a group arrived. From there we have no clue. Those other 7 may have walked in the room for a laugh, then 4 others decided stupidly to take a part in the sex acts. The other three may have arrived, and said not my thing and left at different points.

I can tell you as someone who played hockey at a decently high level and attended many parties....the situations unfold quickly and often include very inebriated players and women.

I was lucky enough and smart enough not to put myself in situations where group sex acts were performed....but they happened but consent was never an issue in the ones I heard about.

So I don't think we are in a place to say "why didn't the other three stop the act, they should be ruined as people as well" just yet.

I agree we don't know what went on with the others in the room. I agree that we don't know every last detail. But I am saying the hypothetical scenarios you first threw out there did not happen, because we know that a group chat involving some or all of the alleged perpetrators contained a message specifically inviting them to the room to engage in sex acts with a woman. We don't know what the invitation specifically said or if every single player in the room at that time was also in that group chat. There's a lot we don't know. I was solely pointing out that we know more than you thought we did 10 minutes ago.

 

[JackSlater]

I'm not surprised that they were charged, but I'm very interested in seeing what comes out regarding the texts or any other evidence. Honestly based on what's out there at the moment it seems highly unlikely that there would be a conviction, despite what the many people who believe they know what happened seem to think, but that could change. I'd guess that the NHL thinks the same thing based on whatever its "investigation" yielded given that the league's response is just to wait and see what the court says.

Sexual assault is difficult to prove while rape is especially egregious. If the players are guilty of it then hopefully they are severely punished. If they aren't then there are others who should face consequences. I doubt most people will ever know what happened for certain. I do wonder whether the London police pursued the case because they actually believed it warranted a charge or whether they just wilted when faced with a lot of scrutiny.

 

[kevsh]

Obviously every case is going to be different and we’re looking at BC vs Ontario but your timeline seems off.

I believe it comes down to what the defense attorneys believe is best for their clients. Lawyers are masters at drawing a case out for years if they choose, or forego the delay tactics and have the trial begin at the earliest available date.

From the player's POV, I'd think that if they are truly innocent they'd want the trial to happen ASAP, clear their names and get back to hockey. As pointed out, the longer this goes on the less likely they are playing NHL or even pro hockey again. But if they are guilty and/or believe the case will be difficult to beat then their careers will likely be a secondary concern.

(As a caveat, there are plenty of other reasons to speed up/slow down the trials so I personally will not assume anything simply based on whichever approach their lawyers use).

 

[LemonSauceD]

I agree we don't know what went on with the others in the room. I agree that we don't know every last detail. But I am saying the hypothetical scenarios you first threw out there did not happen, because we know that a group chat involving some or all of the alleged perpetrators contained a message specifically inviting them to the room to engage in sex acts with a woman. We don't know what the invitation specifically said or if every single player in the room at that time was also in that group chat. There's a lot we don't know. I was solely pointing out that we know more than you thought we did 10 minutes ago.

Simply put, those who did not commit a sexual assault.. did not commit sexual assault. Whether they could’ve stopped it or not is a different matter. At the end of the day, you’re in control of your own actions, not someone else’s. Unless the victim was completely passed out on the floor unresponsive and or they were aware of the victim not giving consent, going down the rabbit hole of trying to put blame on those 3 is just futile along with anyone else who might’ve entered and left.

If I walk into a room and see someone having sex with another person at a party, 10 times out of 10 I’m just going to walk back out and continue on with the night. Even if it was group sex. The sex could be consensual or non consensual, I wouldn’t know, because I’m not going to be there watching it.

 

[thammias]

I'm not surprised that they were charged, but I'm very interested in seeing what comes out regarding the texts or any other evidence. Honestly based on what's out there at the moment it seems highly unlikely that there would be a conviction, despite what the many people who believe they know what happened seem to think, but that could change. I'd guess that the NHL thinks the same thing based on whatever its "investigation" yielded given that the league's response is just to wait and see what the court says.

Sexual assault is difficult to prove while rape is especially egregious. If the players are guilty of it then hopefully they are severely punished. If they aren't then there are others who should face consequences. I doubt most people will ever know what happened for certain. I do wonder whether the London police pursued the case because they actually believed it warranted a charge or whether they just wilted when faced with a lot of scrutiny.

I agree but that's assuming that all the players that were there in the room are a united front in terms of messaging. Maybe interviewing the players in the room who were not charged are corroborating what the victim is saying happened. I have no idea but I'm just speculating that the other players may have damning testimony to what happened.

 

[Bobby Orrtuzzo]

For real, it's the biggest hockey story in months and they didn't even touch it. I am disappointed but I guess I am not surprised. They have been playing everything safe since they got JR fired.

At this point, they are probably rolling in the cash so they have a lot to lose if they say something stupid.

IIRC I think they pretty much just said “we’re not gonna touch it till it’s all settled”

 

[oilexport]

Just reading some articles and noticed the below quote. Link to article included. I haven't seen it before, and never heard anyone on the boards mention it.

So my question is, what if she did do this, while intoxicated ? It gets tougher to prosecute ?

Agent says former World Junior player unsure of what he witnessed in London hotel room - TSN.ca

A player on Canada’s 2018 World Juniors hockey team who was present in a London, Ont., hotel room at the time of an alleged sexual assault told police during their initial investigation he was not a participant in what transpired and left the room unsure of what he had witnessed, the player’s...

www.tsn.ca

"The players say that the woman in this case was encouraging other players to participate,” the lawyer said.

 

[Edgelord]

IIRC I think they pretty much just said “we’re not gonna touch it till it’s all settled”

ohh, I C they're using the Cosby method
All jokes aside it just makes sense for them to wait.

 

[GQS]

lol hockey culture is vile

I don't know why some people like you keep repeating this when its absolutely false if you care anything at all about facts and statistics.

Its factually true that NHL players get into very little trouble with the law compared to athletes from other sports especially like those from the NFL. Much of the issues with bad behavior from hockey players comes from the lower levels and this needs to be addressed, but this is the case for many sports where teens/young adults get into trouble for minor/major incidents.

So if you're going to criticise hockey and hockey culture at least come up with some facts rather than making a sweeping judgement of the entire sport and everyone involved for the actions of a relative few. If you're going to do that then do the same for the NBA, NFL, FIFA etc. who are all doing far worse and have far more problems than hockey does.

 

[MikeyMike01]

I don't know why some people like you keep repeating this when its absolutely false if you care anything at all about facts and statistics.

Its factually true that NHL players get into very little trouble with the law compared to athletes from other sports especially like those from the NFL. Much of the issues with bad behavior from hockey players comes from the lower levels and this needs to be addressed, but this is the case for many sports where teens/young adults get into trouble for minor/major incidents.

So if you're going to criticise hockey and hockey culture at least come up with some facts rather than making a sweeping judgement of the entire sport and everyone involved for the actions of a relative few. If you're going to do that then do the same for the NBA, NFL, FIFA etc. who are all doing far worse and have far more problems than hockey does.

‘Hockey culture’ is a euphemism.

 

[oilexport]

HC brings a heck of a lot of good in Canada. If they made a mistake, or cover up a few of these incidents is a judgemet call that may have to change in the future. Net positive, and good job to the hundreds of solid volunteer members who teach great things to our kids.

 

[T REX]

Wouldn't it be a coincidence if one day a girl falsely accused you of doing something to her and your jury was built with people with that mindset?

False accusations are less than .5% of all sexual assualts.

This is the mental gymnastics you wanna play with me?

Coincidence? Disgusting projection is more like it. Please do not quote or respond to any more of my posts in this thread.

SMDH. If anyone wants to see the problems with hockey culture go to twitter X or facebook or Instagram and see all the disgusting comments posted. Shameful. Barely any empathy at all. Most are Canadians. I have all the screenshots if the mods will allow it. You want to know why this is still going on? LET ME SHOW YOU. Mods?