Five members from Canada’s 2018 world junior team (Hart, McLeod, Dube, Foote and Formenton) told to surrender to police, facing sexual assault charges

[Channelcat]

Anyone that doesn't think hockey culture needs a huge reset...read that and then tell me there's not a huge problem. Can you do that if you can?

Hockey culture is better than non-hockey culture.

 

[Edgelord]

I don't see race... or gender, or friend, or foe, or family, or good people, or bad people. Humanity is one homogenous blob.

imagine living in a world where you have to look at race, sexuality, gender and do some sort of mental calculus of power dynamics or victim status before you consider someone's point.
I know I can't do it, people are people to me.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Not sure where in my response was "testy" to you?

All I said was the number of convictions for sexual assault where the accuser was drunk/inebriated GREATLY outweights the number that are overturned. I proceeded to say that if your reasoning for having sex with someone who is drunk is based off that one overturned case you quoted me, that its your choice, but odds aren't in your favour for working out for you should the other party press charges.

If that set of statements offends you or comes off as "testy" (whatever that means in this context), I'm sorry facts make you uncomfortable? Perhaps you should self-reflect on why it makes you feel that way.

lol, wasn’t the point at all, but ok.
I’m sorry you feel that way, and jumped to wrong conclusions.

 

[4thline]

I don't see race... or gender, or friend, or foe, or family, or good people, or bad people. Humanity is one homogenous blob.

Life is free from consequences outside of those imposed by the judicial system
(Sarcasm, for those skimming)

 

[Ezekial]

imagine living in a world where you have to look at race, sexuality, gender and do some sort of mental calculus of power dynamics or victim status before you consider someone's point.
I know I can't do it, people are people to me.

You treat people differently based on sex and race without knowing it or doing any mental calculus or victimizing.

In fact, I can see it in this post right here, that you don't treat all people the same.

 

[Melrose Munch]

Hockey culture is better than non-hockey culture.

If it was, this thread wouldn't exist.

 

[tp71]

If it was, this thread wouldn't exist.

There's bad people in every walk of life and bad things happening every day. Read a newspaper, watch the news on TV. The statement hockey culture is better than other culture by that poster could inherently be true. It could also be false. Its almost impossible to quantify and state without beyond any doubt one way or the other.

There have always been bad people and bad culture people in hockey.

There have always been bad people and bad culture people in society.

In every single company that exists in this world, there are bad people and bad culture people. Every single one.

This thread exists because there are bad people in the world. This thread exists in every company, in every country, in every sport both male and female.

Hockey is not exclusive to this company. And people just buried their head in the sand for a long time regarding it.

 

[Channelcat]

There's bad people in every walk of life and bad things happening every day. Read a newspaper, watch the news on TV. The statement hockey culture is better than other culture by that poster could inherently be true. It could also be false. Its almost impossible to quantify and state without beyond any doubt one way or the other.

There have always been bad people and bad culture people in hockey.

There have always been bad people and bad culture people in society.

In every single company that exists in this world, there are bad people and bad culture people. Every single one.

This thread exists because there are bad people in the world. This thread exists in every company, in every country, in every sport both male and female.

Hockey is not exclusive to this company. And people just buried their head in the sand for a long time regarding it.

It's not really hard to quantify. Professional hockey players face criminal charges at a lower rate than the general population. I haven't seen the numbers but I guarantee it's true. Unfortunately there is an element of society that is hell bent on destroying anything and anyone that they see as as better than themselves.

 

[Frank Drebin]

That was easy.

Did you interpret consent to be in the room as consent to have sex with the woman?

 

[Melrose Munch]

It's not really hard to quantify. Professional hockey players face criminal charges at a lower rate than the general population. I haven't seen the numbers but I guarantee it's true. Unfortunately there is an element of society that is hell bent on destroying anything and anyone that they see as as better than themselves.

Athletes as a whole commit less crime, but we're talking about crimes committed by 18/19-year-olds during a junior tournament.

That makes no sense.

It's not better. It was just marketed as better. Better would not mean stuff like this.

 

[Pink Mist]

The blog it was hosted on is gone. But this article has a decent summary: Rape Culture Has Poisoned Junior Hockey

Junior Hockey Bible was deleted, but you can read it through the wayback machine here
The Bible

 

[Edgelord]

Junior Hockey Bible was deleted, but you can read it through the wayback machine here
The Bible

holy shit, its a real thing, I thought it was satire

 

[Peasy]

It's not really hard to quantify. Professional hockey players face criminal charges at a lower rate than the general population. I haven't seen the numbers but I guarantee it's true. Unfortunately there is an element of society that is hell bent on destroying anything and anyone that they see as as better than themselves.

Rich, wealthy people have faced the consequences of their actions way less or have committed less "crimes" than the general populous. What a riveting take. Take any well off person/group of people and compare them to the general population and you will find the exact same results. There's this thing called privilege, that is going to make you less likely to commit a crime or get caught committing a crime.

 

[Stud Muffin]

I want to know who the other 3 in the room were, they are just a guilty for being bystanders. Absolute cowards.

 

[Edgelord]

I want to know who the other 3 in the room were, they are just a guilty for being bystanders. Absolute cowards.

Yup, we will find out when it gets to trial.

 

[Channelcat]

Rich, wealthy people have faced the consequences of their actions way less or have committed less "crimes" than the general populous. What a riveting take. Take any well off person/group of people and compare them to the general population and you will find the exact same results. There's this thing called privilege, that is going to make you less likely to commit a crime or get caught committing a crime.

Completely untrue....this only supports my point.

 

[MikeyMike01]

So your opinion of everyone you meet and interact with is completely the same? No change at all based on your judgement of their character, non-criminal actions, choices etc?

I call bullshit

I try to avoid interacting with anyone

 

[Edgelord]

You treat people differently based on sex and race without knowing it or doing any mental calculus or victimizing.

In fact, I can see it in this post right here, that you don't treat all people the same.

I feel you owe me an explanation of the bold.
I think its unfair because I really try to judge people based on the content of their character and nothing else.

 

[kevsh]

I don't think Bettman addressed it, but what about the possibility that one or more players are found not guilty at their trial and that result contradicts the internal NHL investigation's findings? Remember, if these are jury trials anything can happen.

There's other possible scenarios along the same lines of course, but if the NHL intends to release their report after the trial(s) are over and that may involve (further) discipline, this could be problematic. Can/will the NHL suspend a player even if he's found not guilty? The opposite?

 

[andora]

I feel you owe me an explanation of the bold.
I think its unfair because I really try to judge people based on the content of their character and nothing else.

Lol.. i am intrigued too. I might ask him to do me next

 

[Nac Mac Feegle]

It's not just hockey culture but fratboy / jock culture. This problem wont end here. Countless incidents like this happen in Colleges around the country every year they just get covered up because there is more money involved than in Canadian junior hockey.

At the end of the day, it's privilege. Jocks, rich kids, kids with connections...anyone that has any kind of golden ticket gets to play by a different set of rules in the amateur sporting and academic world. And it needs to change.

In my opinion, hockey is hit with a double whammy simply because it has become a sport for the upper economic classes over the last two decades, and how iconic the game is regarded in Canada (especially in smaller junior hockey towns across the country).

 

[Spring in Fialta]

That was easy.

Same poster also once went with 'Black people use white people saying the N-Word as an excuse to behave badly'

Zero surprised by his weird comment.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

I try to avoid interacting with anyone

Good on you to spare them. Sheesh. Wouldn't want to feel morally superior, as you put it.

 

[Spring in Fialta]

Did you interpret consent to be in the room as consent to have sex with the woman?

If a woman goes 'Who's this?' without directly asking you to leave, are you saying that this is consent to be there?

There's a million ways in which a woman (while being assaulted) wouldn't have the ability/opportunity (let alone the fear) of saying 'leave' that would not remotely amount to consent.

 

[MXD]

I don't think Bettman addressed it, but what about the possibility that one or more players are found not guilty at their trial and that result contradicts the internal NHL investigation's findings? Remember, if these are jury trials anything can happen.

There's other possible scenarios along the same lines of course, but if the NHL intends to release their report after the trial(s) are over and that may involve (further) discipline, this could be problematic. Can/will the NHL suspend a player even if he's found not guilty? The opposite?

Internal investigations findings are usually not written on the basis of BARD standard of evidence and are totally unaffected by matters of criminal rules of procedure and evidence; thus, a non-guilty verdict for Player 4 wouldn't necessarily contradict a finding to the effect that Player 4 committed sexual assault.

For the record, I would have no issue whatsoever with Player 4 being declared non-guilty following, I don't know, a breach of procedure meaning a crucial piece of evidence couldn't be used against him. Those rules exist for many reasons, one of which is making sure the investigators/police are as clean as possible.