Five members from Canada’s 2018 world junior team (Hart, McLeod, Dube, Foote and Formenton) told to surrender to police, facing sexual assault charges

[Frank Drebin]

I am almost positive this is what players 2-5 assumed was consent as well.

I'm talking about consent to be in the room

 

[HugeInTheShire]

Any truth to the rumour he wore it to a flyers game?

View attachment 813931

I haven't heard that but he wore it the the Hurricanes game on Jan 25, literally the day after McLeod and Foote took the LOA.
If anyone deserves that kind of treatment though, it's him.

Other people have mentioned him in this thread, but I won't say his name cuz he's the kind that'd sue for sure.

 

[T REX]

Some innocent people sacrificed for the greater good arguments..

Sounds like a witch Hunt!

Going down the list of everybody that even knew something and destroy their livelihood. (Players /Gms / agents / lawyers / bellboys/ stick boys.

Why don’t we concentrate on the 5 players charged.

And then

Let justice proceed where everyone is assumed innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.


Not assumed despicable and castrated by a mob on a hockey forum.

You completely missed the point of my post.

There are more people besides these 5 that have to do some explaining for various reasons. Maybe some written law wasn't broken but morally? These individuals are bankrupt. That's how you change culture. If you think these 5 are the only ones whose careers are over...I have a couple bridges to sell you.

 

[BE Friend]

These guys aren't getting legal aid lawyers. They will be getting top level stuff. There will be a PI's going through EM;s garbage cans. Talking to past boyfriends, Surveillance. We have CBC Gian 2.0. And he got acquitted ! Not Guilty ! And his life will never be rehabbed back to his glory days. Not surprised if that happens here. Court - not guilty. Public Court - guilty.
I can see one or more saying - Plead me down just get it over with, I'll apologize and ask for forgiveness,
AND no doubt we're going to get other cases and stories coming out of the woodwork now. Was this a one and done incident? It's gonna get ugly.

 

[Yukon Joe]

Now that charges have been laid the clock has started and the SCoC Jordan decision could potentially come into effect and force the prosecution to stay charges or seek plea deals just to get it over with and not have to start the whole process over again.

Like many provinces the Ontario judicial system is a mess and critically understaffed.

The Jordan clock is absolutely now ticking.

I can tell you again though that given how high-profile the case is the Crown and the courts are going to make every effort to make sure they're available.

And the process "can't start all over again". The Jordan clock, once it starts ticking, doesn't stop.

 

[oilexport]

A lot of rapes aren’t going to involve screaming or fighting back. I’d imagine the victim wants to mollify the attacker(s), not make the situation worse, and get it over with. Pizza guy could have come up for a slice, saw what was going on, felt uncomfortable for some reason, but think “well, there have been girls that have done this before”, and taken his slice and bounced. We don’t know what he saw or thought but we’ll find out, I’m sure. No reason to think the girl cried out to him for help and she probably thought he’s one of them. Probably best to withhold the call for blood for someone who can be a key piece in putting these guys away

Pretty sure that the lobby is as far as the pizza legend got. Player 1 went down to get it.

 

[Ezekial]

Pretty sure that the lobby is as far as the pizza legend got. Player 1 went down to get it.

Dude just stop posting this over and over, "pizza guy" does not mean pizza delivery driver. The fact that you keep repeating this shows just how ignorant you are of the case you keep opining on. "Pizza guy" is a member of 2018 Team Canada like the other 5.

 

[Yukon Joe]

These guys aren't getting legal aid lawyers. They will be getting top level stuff. There will be a PI's going through EM;s garbage cans. Talking to past boyfriends, Surveillance. We have CBC Gian 2.0. And he got acquitted ! Not Guilty ! And his life will never be rehabbed back to his glory days. Not surprised if that happens here. Court - not guilty. Public Court - guilty.
I can see one or more saying - Plead me down just get it over with, I'll apologize and ask for forgiveness,
AND no doubt we're going to get other cases and stories coming out of the woodwork now. Was this a one and done incident? It's gonna get ugly.

So you're not necessarily wrong, but there were significant legislative changes made in response to the Ghomeshi trial - specifically s. 278.92. Defence can no longer lie in wait with text messages and the like.

And Ghomeshi's own version of events made him out to be a total creep, even if not guilty, so not surprised to see the public wants nothing to do with him.

Will one or more plead guilty? Maybe, but I doubt it. No one will get a slap on the wrist if they enter a plea. A good rule of thumb (NOT etched in stone or caselaw) is about a one third to one half reduction in sentence. So maybe instead of 2 years (as suggested in the Westhead article) someone might get 1 year in jail. But 1 year in jail is still a long time. Many might prefer to roll the dice.

 

[Gregor Samsa]

Honestly I’d think a player that takes accountability and pleads guilty while the others plead not guilty, gives a statement that isn’t lawyer written, and actually shows they have changed through actions, has a better chance of playing in the NHL again; not that that chance would be much though

 

[Leonardo87]

You guys are teasing me with all these Pizza delivery posts.

 

[Korpse]

Also worth pointing that there may not have been actual pizza and that invited to the room for "pizza" may have been code

Player 1 ordered and went and got food from the lobby at one point. That is in what’s been reported.

 

[Ezekial]

You guys are teasing me with all these Pizza delivery posts.

 

[T REX]

But that's the problem.

The vast majority of these stories get swept under the rug.

It's time to put an end to this type of culture/behavior where it's ok to high five your teammates and go on about your day. Whether it's right or wrong DOES matter.

Being immature isn't an excuse for doing something like this.

Maybe these players being made an example of will make young boys think twice about their actions and realize they are wrong and stop them from doing something really bad. It will save them and potential victims.

Bingo. I can't believe some posters are still playing the boys will be boys excuse. Totally disgusting. SMDH.

 

[prongertheman9]

I'm talking about consent to be in the room

I know. But what you said probably sums up exactly what the rest of the players thought after player 1 texted them. I doubt EM explicitly said “no” and they just assumed that was implied consent.

 

[T REX]

Why have a conversation in bad faith? You know he was referring to the story itself not being massive on the grand sports scale, and he’s right.

We are headed into Valentines and Super Bowl weekend. This might not even make the ticker at the bottom of the screen for most sports fans.

This made our local...LOCAL news at multiple times...IN TAMPA.

Uhhhh...the toothpaste is out of the tube. It's not going back in.

 

[SupremeTeam16]

The Jordan clock is absolutely now ticking.

I can tell you again though that given how high-profile the case is the Crown and the courts are going to make every effort to make sure they're available.

And the process "can't start all over again". The Jordan clock, once it starts ticking, doesn't stop.

I agree that because of public interest this case will get a push through the system. Which in a way is kind of sad because certainly to accommodate this, other cases will surely be dropped, likely even other SA cases that don’t have the publics interest. Very likely to serve justice in this situation we could see other SA cases dropped. But the angry mob can only see what’s in front of them and for them it’s imperative that these young men of privilege are punished even if in the course of that it means many others not getting their justice and other perpetrators going free.

The accused and their teams have the ability to draw these proceedings out and drain the already strained court resources. I really don’t see a win here in any sense because as I mentioned it likely comes at the cost of Justice not being served in other cases that may have been more expeditious prosecutions with higher chances of conviction, which may be why charges were not originally pursued. But the public and political powers that be want their pound of flesh even if it comes at a cost.

 

[MacMacandBarbie]

Honestly I’d think a player that takes accountability and pleads guilty while the others plead not guilty, gives a statement that isn’t lawyer written, and actually shows they have changed through actions, has a better chance of playing in the NHL again; not that that chance would be much though

That is why players should take advice from experts. Winning the court of public opinion has nothing to do with whether someone was in the right or wrong, as evidenced by the many delusional and just misinformed opinions littered throughout this thread.

 

[Frank Drebin]

I know. But what you said probably sums up exactly what the rest of the players thought after player 1 texted them. I doubt EM explicitly said “no” and they just assumed that was implied consent.

The whole receiving consent thing from the pizza player is very confusing. I'm not really sure what he was supposed to receive consent for.

 

[Yukon Joe]

I agree that because of public interest this case will get a push through the system. Which in a way is kind of sad because certainly to accommodate this, other cases will surely be dropped, likely even other SA cases that don’t have the publics interest. Very likely to serve justice in this situation we could see other SA cases dropped. But the angry mob can only see what’s in front of them and for them it’s imperative that these young men of privilege are punished even if in the course of that it means many others not getting their justice and other perpetrators going free.

The accused and their teams have the ability to draw these proceedings out and drain the already strained court resources. I really don’t see a win here in any sense because as I mentioned it likely comes at the cost of Justice not being served in other cases that may have been more expeditious prosecutions with higher chances of conviction, which may be why charges were not originally pursued. But the public and political powers that be want their pound of flesh even if it comes at a cost.

I think you're being very unfair with all this "angry mob" and "pound of flesh" language.

More serious cases take precedence over less serious cases. I think this fairly obvious and common sense. The court will take a sex assault as having more priority than a drunk driving, even if that means the drunk driving gets stayed. If it came down to one sex assault versus another - well not sure what they'd do.

Defence lawyers don't have the same interest in seeing things move quite so quickly - but they're professionals also and aren't going to deliberately try to stall things. Or if they do - the courts can refuse to count certain amounts of time as against the Jordan deadline.

 

[AnInjuredJasonZucker]

Sometimes I think people forget what it’s like to be a teenager. It’s always easy as a mature adult to say you’d denounce your friends and social circle as a teenager, but it’s probably forgotten how important that social hierarchy structure was to you as a teenager. Plenty of parents who say they have a great upstanding teenager would be shocked at how often they’d look the other way. There is bad herd mentality, a strong desire to fit in, and not go against the grain. There is a reason things like bullying are an issue and if bullying is stopped, it’s almost always because mature adults get involved. Is it right? No, but teenagers have a bad reputation for a reason. They are often immature and not their own person yet. They are always looking towards the herd, and getting ostracized from the herd is a crisis.

What if...and just hear me out because this is going to be a wild though...what committing rape was the thing that got you ostracized from the herd?

 

[Yukon Joe]

That is why players should take advice from experts. Winning the court of public opinion has nothing to do with whether someone was in the right or wrong, as evidenced by the many delusional and just misinformed opinions littered throughout this thread.

I'll just say that players should take advice from experts - being both lawyers and public relations experts.

 

[oilexport]

Dude just stop posting this over and over, "pizza guy" does not mean pizza delivery driver. The fact that you keep repeating this shows just how ignorant you are of the case you keep opining on. "Pizza guy" is a member of 2018 Team Canada like the other 5.

Oh, sorry. Can you briefly explain so I understand ?

 

[Frank Drebin]

Oh, sorry. Can you briefly explain so I understand ?

If your search this thread for pizza you'll find it's a player that stopped in the room for about 10 minutes

 

[MacMacandBarbie]

This made our local...LOCAL news at multiple times...IN TAMPA.

Uhhhh...the toothpaste is out of the tube. It's not going back in.

That’s not that many people. A local news station isn’t going to reach as many people as Lebron James’ latest tweet, let alone engage them.

Tampa being a market that just went to 3 Stanley cup finals in a row, and drafted Cal Foote(IMO the most recognizable last name involved) might have more motivation to air this locally as well.

 

[Ezekial]

Oh, sorry. Can you briefly explain so I understand ?

Post 4698:

“My guy got a text message from one of his teammates that there was a party going on with pizza, so he went up to the room,” the agent said. “He did not know how to process what was going on when he saw what was happening in the room. He did not know if this was consensual group sex or if it was a sexual assault.

“It’s true that he did not intervene and say stop. You can judge him for not intervening. What would you do in the same situation when you were a teenager? Is this something he should lose his career and reputation over?”

The agent, who requested anonymity to protect the identity of his client, said the player left the room after about 10 minutes.

Agent says former World Junior player unsure of what he witnessed in London hotel room | TSN

A player on Canada’s 2018 World Juniors hockey team who was present in a London, Ont., hotel room at the time of an alleged sexual assault told police during their initial investigation he was not a participant in what transpired and left the room unsure of what he had witnessed, the player’s...

www.tsn.ca

Five members from Canada’s 2018 world junior team (Hart, McLeod, Dube, Foote and Formenton) told to surrender to police, facing sexual assault charges

Borderline yes So your going with “boys will be boys”? Gross.

forums.hfboards.com

This was your response to me, Post 4701:

Down in the lobby is where the player 1 went to get the pizza.

Look and you will see.