Five members from Canada’s 2018 world junior team (Hart, McLeod, Dube, Foote and Formenton) told to surrender to police, facing sexual assault charges

[SensFactor]

I know these were the 5 that have been charged. However, there were at least 8 in the room. 3 more unknown players may be called into the trial to testify.

 

[horner]

That confirms McLeod is player 1 hence the two charges

 

[T REX]

Like someone else pointed out do you think the guys said " guess what 8 of us raped some girl" I'm guessing it was something like this girl was totally down for this gang bang and I even have video proof she was and at that point are the others on the team supposed to do? launch there own investigation?

I fully agree the hockey culture needs to change thou even thou I love the wjc TC should be suspended

All they need is one person to turn. Or they enough proof on video she was unable to consent.

Again...imho...there's noway these charges are brought without slam dunk evidence.

Pizza guy is collateral damage. Every player should and will be investigated. Phone records are forever...texts calls and locations. All evidence. I doubt it ends with these 5 players.

Ignorance isn't a defense. Good luck trying to ice a player once word gets out they knew and did nothing. Boys will be boys. That crap is over.

Watch.

 

[93LEAFS]

I know these were the 5 that have been charged. However, there were at least 8 in the room. 3 more unknown players may be called into the trial to testify.

Oh, the potential witness list for this could be a horrific look for the NHL. Who knows what else they got up to that night that may not get them criminally charged but could be embarrassing if publicly revealed under sworn testimony.

 

[T REX]

Oh, the potential witness list for this could be a horrific look for the NHL. Who knows what else they got up to that night that may not get them criminally charged but could be embarrassing if publicly revealed under sworn testimony.

Post of the day. Anyone thinking that this ends with these 5 players is extremely naive. Every player with a solid alibi is safe. Everyone else? Their careers are in serious jeopardy. This isn't getting swept under the rug like the first time. Some hard nosed journalists are going to out them. And it is the right thing to do btw. No more fostering this culture. Boys will be boys time is over. No hiding it anymore. Too bad Bettman is spineless. But the folks in the media trying to make a name for themselves won't give AF about some vow of silence or the greater good of the sport. BURN IT DOWN!

 

[Seanaconda]

Like someone else pointed out do you think the guys said " guess what 8 of us raped some girl" I'm guessing it was something like this girl was totally down for this gang bang and I even have video proof she was and at that point are the others on the team supposed to do? launch there own investigation?

I fully agree the hockey culture needs to change thou even thou I love the wjc TC should be suspended

Plus sex can look rapey and be consensual

Also the other way.

 

[Ezekial]

Do we know what the room was layout was like? Could it have been a suite with a separate living room area from the bedroom? It look s really bad for the pizza guy if he's sitting there eating pizza and watching it in front of him, but it's different if he's in an adjacent area and doesn't really know exactly what's going on in the room next to him for a few mins.

It could be very damning for him, but there's a reality where the extent of what was taking place wasn't obvious to him.

 

[NJDevs26]

A creep who proudly wore the McLeod jersey to a game recently (after he took his LOA) hitting up minors. She called him out on it.

I might have to think about it a little if you asked me who was the bigger scumbag, that particular internet creep or McLeod himself. Between hitting on minors, being obnoxious about politics and provocative about everything else including most likely getting into fights it wouldn't shock me to see him hauled off some day. He'll surely be the only dude wearing a McLeod jersey now.

 

[Gregor Samsa]

There are so many possible variables with the witnesses that it’s almost pointless to speculate. Do we even know if it was a single room hotel room? If it was a multi room place, the witnesses could have been standing around a box of pizza as the incident goes on in the other room. Pizza guy comes in and they awkwardly stand around eating pizza until pizza guy gets weird vibes and leaves. Maybe the witnesses did say something to the players. Maybe that’s why the 5 got video “consent”. Maybe there was even an argument. Maybe the witnesses weren’t there for the whole thing and only saw a part of the incident and they’ve seen those group bonding activities so many times they didn’t realize this one was different. Maybe they didn’t see or speak to the girl. Maybe things weren’t so black or white to witnesses. What we have is a vague general outline and 5 perpetrators. Calling for blood of any person tangentially related is dangerous. Plenty of revolutions devolves into butcheries because of overzealous mob mentality. Let’s see exactly what happened before calling for heads. Shit, might as well throw Ryan McLeod out the league as well

 

[T REX]

There are so many possible variables with the witnesses that it’s almost pointless to speculate. Do we even know if it was a single room hotel room? If it was a multi room place, the witnesses could have been standing around a box of pizza as the incident goes on in the other room. Pizza guy comes in and they awkwardly stand around eating pizza until pizza guy gets weird vibes and leaves. Maybe the witnesses did say something to the players. Maybe that’s why the 5 got video “consent”. Maybe there was even an argument. Maybe the witnesses weren’t there for the whole thing and only saw a part of the incident and they’ve seen those group bonding activities so many times they didn’t realize this one was different. Maybe they didn’t see or speak to the girl. Maybe things weren’t so black or white to witnesses. What we have is a vague general outline and 5 perpetrators. Calling for blood of any person tangentially related is dangerous. Plenty of revolutions devolves into butcheries because of overzealous mob mentality. Let’s see exactly what happened before calling for heads. Shit, might as well throw Ryan McLeod out the league as well

Occam's razor. There was a poster earlier in this thread that tried to explain this encounter away as commonplace...pizza group sex MAYBE a thing in their circle. Too many maybes. The simplest answer is usually the right one. I stopped counting at 5 of your maybes. Good luck with that.

Might as well of said boys will be boys.

 

[Leafs87]

I doubt any team would ever sign them but they all plead not guilty. Does the NHL really have any grounds to ban them if they’re found not guiltily? The reason I ask is because there are allegations made all the time and this could send a very dangerous precedent.

I get this case is bad, but I remember other cases where if found not guilty, the athlete/celebrity continued on with their careers after a not guilty verdict. There’s a huge Epstein list out right now that is getting less attention than this and likely has more “solid evidence” and witnesses.

 

[Tryblot]

There are so many possible variables with the witnesses that it’s almost pointless to speculate. Do we even know if it was a single room hotel room? If it was a multi room place, the witnesses could have been standing around a box of pizza as the incident goes on in the other room. Pizza guy comes in and they awkwardly stand around eating pizza until pizza guy gets weird vibes and leaves. Maybe the witnesses did say something to the players. Maybe that’s why the 5 got video “consent”. Maybe there was even an argument. Maybe the witnesses weren’t there for the whole thing and only saw a part of the incident and they’ve seen those group bonding activities so many times they didn’t realize this one was different. Maybe they didn’t see or speak to the girl. Maybe things weren’t so black or white to witnesses. What we have is a vague general outline and 5 perpetrators. Calling for blood of any person tangentially related is dangerous. Plenty of revolutions devolves into butcheries because of overzealous mob mentality. Let’s see exactly what happened before calling for heads. Shit, might as well throw Ryan McLeod out the league as well

That hotel isn't an all suite hotel, and likely if he was sharing a room with another player and hockey canada booked a block of rooms then it was just a standard 2 bed room.

 

[Frank Drebin]

That player's career will be over if it's not already.

No it won't.

 

[Frank Drebin]

That guy might be a key witness in this case, IIRC his agent also said that he would cooperate if need be (unless I'm mistaken). It could very well be why he has not been charged.

What's interesting though, is that his agent says that he "didn't know if what he was witnessing was consensual, or sexual assault". That sounds like BS to absolve a guilty conscience and not incriminate himself. What that statement really says is that "I thought it was probably sexual assault but I didn't know how to react in the moment". If it was consensual, you wouldn't have doubts.

However if his name becomes public, and it's been heavily rumored to be one guy who's name keeps coming back, he might have some issues depending on what exactly comes out in the trial.

If I walked into a gangbang I would have no idea what to think. They don't sound like a good time from a woman's perspective, neither does rough and degrading sec but some are into it I think?

I think as a middle aged man I would try make contact with the female, give a little "everything alright?" Before I left maybe?

The situation is just so bizarre

The guy she is talking about (she's like 15 by the way) is so universally HATED by all Devils fans it's insane. He appeared in court for a domestic dispute in Florida for hitting his ex, scams people out of money on the regular by lying about being a brand ambassador for Fanatics, I've heard stories of him following underaged girls during and after games, one girl told me a story that he stalked her and followed her back to her hotel in NYC she had to ask the front desk and door man to please not let him in. He usually wears a Devils jersey that says TRUMP on the back. I don't care about anyone's politics... that's just some attention seeking BS... and then the next game after McLeod takes a leave of absence he shows up in a McLeod jersey.

That guys is a piece of trash and we all want him in jail and or/banned from all NHL buildings.

Why are we talking about some loser devil fan?

 

[93LEAFS]

I doubt any team would ever sign them but they all plead not guilty. Does the NHL really have any grounds to ban them if they’re found not guiltily? The reason I ask is because there are allegations made all the time and this could send a very dangerous precedent.

I get this case is bad, but I remember other cases where if found not guilty, the athlete/celebrity continued on with their careers after a not guilty verdict. There’s a huge Epstein list out right now that is getting less attention than this and likely has more “solid evidence” and witnesses.

I'm sure the commissioners office as a wide range of abilities related to this. Outright ban them? Probably not. But, he can point to the NHL's "investigation" and say they likely did it even if it didn't meet the burden of proof in a criminal trial, and suspend them for a significant period of time. Deshaun Watson is probably the most recent example of something like this and he got 11 games in the NFL which is almost 75% of the season, despite settling out of court and not even being charged criminally. Granted, the amount of accusers he had was absolutely ridiculous.

 

[Pink Mist]

Read a lot of garbage spewed towards Batherson when there were yet to be formal charges laid against any persons.

I wouldnt be so quick to absolve other players on the team just because 5 players have been now charged.

Don't forget there were 8 players in the room so theres 3 that at best witnessed it and did nothing, or at worst participated but the police determined they would not be able to stick a charge on them due to lack of evidence.

There's a lot more to come in this and we've barely scratched the surface on what occured and who was involved

 

[PanniniClaus]

Who orders pizza in the middle of a gang bang? "this is gonna be a long one... better get some dominos".

What a mess.. I stand by my comments that people suck..

 

[T REX]

No it won't.

Any idea who it is? That may be causing a bias. I have no clue but if you think the gen pop is going to fall for...I only stopped by for some slices and stayed for 10 minutes then left. You are absolutely underestimating the fans at large. Not to mention the female ones. The pizza defense. Sure pal.

You see something...you say something...been that way for years and years. Long before 2018. So good luck with your "it's not delivery it's DiGiornio defense". May get him through the court case but the court of public opinion is going to put pizza boy on a cheese shredder. And rightly so.

 

[Ezekial]

Occam's razor. There was a poster earlier in this thread that tried to explain this encounter away as commonplace...pizza group sex MAYBE a thing in their circle. Too many maybes. The simplest answer is usually the right one. I stopped counting at 5 of your maybes. Good luck with that.

Might as well of said boys will be boys.

For someone who speaks in such absolutes you'd think you'd have a grasp on the words have and of.

 

[Uncle Rotter]

Their options are severely limited in Europe as well. Not that many teams want to deal with a PR nightmare like this. There is this one club in Slovakia though that got Mitchell Miller and Severi Lahtinen, a Finnish player who got convicted of rape recently though...

Reid Boucher (who sexually assaulted a 12 year old girl) is currently leading the KHL in goal scoring.

 

[T REX]

Reid Boucher (who sexually assaulted a 12 year old girl) is currently leading the KHL in goal scoring.

Says more about the KHL than anything else

 

[red devil]

Robyn Doolittle was on podcast called The Decible and it is in total about 24 minutes long. She talks about the details that night that most here have already hearc or read.

One issue she talked about is the London Police initial investigation. They truly messed this up as they didn't know about the group text, they didn't interview some witnesses properly or fully and example is M.M. the older man from the bar who works for Nike. She didn't go into other examples but this shows why the police closed they investigation around 6 months after it started.

 

[Blue and Green]

Do we even know if it was a single room hotel room? If it was a multi room place, the witnesses could have been standing around a box of pizza as the incident goes on in the other room. Pizza guy comes in and they awkwardly stand around eating pizza until pizza guy gets weird vibes and leaves.

“My guy got a text message from one of his teammates that there was a party going on with pizza, so he went up to the room,” the agent said. “He did not know how to process what was going on when he saw what was happening in the room. He did not know if this was consensual group sex or if it was a sexual assault.

“It’s true that he did not intervene and say stop. You can judge him for not intervening. What would you do in the same situation when you were a teenager? Is this something he should lose his career and reputation over?”

The agent, who requested anonymity to protect the identity of his client, said the player left the room after about 10 minutes.

Agent says former World Junior player unsure of what he witnessed in London hotel room | TSN

A player on Canada’s 2018 World Juniors hockey team who was present in a London, Ont., hotel room at the time of an alleged sexual assault told police during their initial investigation he was not a participant in what transpired and left the room unsure of what he had witnessed, the player’s...

www.tsn.ca

 

[I am toxic]

Word of advice - if after 10 minutes* you can't determine if a gang bang is going on or it is a gang rape, default to the latter and effin' do something about it.

Especially if you were invited unwittingly and no sort of consent whatsoever was ever discussed.

I doubt there can be any conviction in a criminal case, "beyond a reasonable doubt" is too high a bar to clear, seeing as most people aren't very bright. But there is no doubt that had this case gone to civil court E.M. would win based on whatever that standard is, balance of probabilities or whatever it's called.

*Did I say 10 minutes? I meant 10 seconds.

 

[Sidney the Kidney]

“My guy got a text message from one of his teammates that there was a party going on with pizza, so he went up to the room,” the agent said. “He did not know how to process what was going on when he saw what was happening in the room. He did not know if this was consensual group sex or if it was a sexual assault.

“It’s true that he did not intervene and say stop. You can judge him for not intervening. What would you do in the same situation when you were a teenager? Is this something he should lose his career and reputation over?”

The agent, who requested anonymity to protect the identity of his client, said the player left the room after about 10 minutes.

Agent says former World Junior player unsure of what he witnessed in London hotel room | TSN

A player on Canada’s 2018 World Juniors hockey team who was present in a London, Ont., hotel room at the time of an alleged sexual assault told police during their initial investigation he was not a participant in what transpired and left the room unsure of what he had witnessed, the player’s...

www.tsn.ca

I mean, this might (and I stress the word "might") be a defense if he stuck around for 10 seconds where he pops his head in, doesn't really see much and leaves. But when you stick around EATING PIZZA FOR 10 MINUTES, how is that a defense at that point?