Five members from Canada’s 2018 world junior team (Hart, McLeod, Dube, Foote and Formenton) told to surrender to police, facing sexual assault charges

[Silky Johnson]

So what would you describe it as? Because threatening a woman with golf clubs after a rape is an action of a gang.

I know you like to play the devil's advocate, so don't hold back. We have names now.


Simple. The money. Socioeconomic factors change things.

The social dynamics of gangs typically are defined by UNDERPRIVILEGED people who largely come from unstable home/community situations. The gangs collectively prey on prospective members by giving them a sense of belonging that is otherwise lacking. There are elements to emotional & economic survival to it.

These players are more likely a product of overprivilege and lack of personal accountability due to their position in their community. If the allegations are thru, I doubt they believed they were doing something wrong at the time of the incident.

To me, the latter is less excusable and more personally offensive than the former.

So no they are not anything like a gang.

 

[Doshell Propivo]

This is just the beginning. I fully expect more of this from the younger, sexualized generation. We live in a world where Pornstars are idolized, you deal with outcomes like this. Programming has done a number to our children...

This is not unique to this generation.

 

[Strangle]

okay

What do you think gangs do? Sit around and play risk?

They sell drugs …. To make money

 

[luiginb]

Hell, football is certainly not king in Montreal and McGill's hazing rituals (the good ol' broomstick up the arse)

In my days as a handball player it was a boiled egg up the arse. I guess football players are just tougher like that haha

 

[Slats432]

I was a bit too graphic a moment ago. I'll try again without the extra. (sorry Mods).

I do think that Junior hockey in particular has a problem. We've seen so many reports of abusive billet situations, predatory coaches, sexual assault claims and settlements, stories of gang sex (2003, 2018), very odd hazing stories, etc, etc.

Gotta be honest -- not sure if I recall seeing so many reports of that kind of stuff in other sports. Bad behavior by players in the pro leagues? Of course. But not the seemingly constant sexualize power plays that the Juniors seem to be plagued with.

It's really really odd, to be honest.

People are less likely to sweep it under the rug, and with social media we get to hear about every incident. I don't think there are more situations (or less for that matter) just we are given the information on every one of them.

How may superstars went to watch football games in the 70s? Probably lots but we didn't hear about it like we hear about Taylor Swift.

 

[Darren McCord]

This is just the beginning. I fully expect more of this from the younger, sexualized generation. We live in a world where Pornstars are idolized, you deal with outcomes like this. Programming has done a number to our children...

Lol ya right this is new thing.....

The only new things is an attempt at holding some people accountable.

 

[Melrose Munch]

The social dynamics of gangs typically are defined by UNDERPRIVILEGED people who largely come from unstable home/community situations. The gangs collectively prey on prospective members by giving them a sense of belonging that is otherwise lacking. There are elements to emotional & economic survival to it.

These players are more likely a product of overprivilege and lack of personal accountability due to their position in their community. If the allegations are thru, I doubt they believed they were doing something wrong at the time of the incident.

To me, the latter is less excusable and more personally offensive than the former.

So no they are not anything like a gang.

Great, so they are ignorant buffoons in a group. At best. At worst...

 

[Primary Assist]

This is just the beginning. I fully expect more of this from the younger, sexualized generation. We live in a world where Pornstars are idolized, you deal with outcomes like this. Programming has done a number to our children...

Porn stars have been idolized since the days of Ron Jeremy. People from the past 4-5 generations have idolized certain, ahem, members of the porm community and that isn't unique to today's kids.

In fact, a lot of the research shows that this generation is not having nearly as much sex as the other generations. It's actually a pretty big issue stemming around repression and social isolation.

This generation has been constantly surveiling each other since they could mash their fingers into a smartphone screen during their toddler years. I have a feeling this type of situation is going to become less and less common, thankfully

 

[Number8]

I was about to respond with something equally graphic, but it definitely does happen in other sports. Having lived in both eastern and western Pennsylvania, where football is gospel, high school football teams get caught up in all sorts of nasty hazing incidents.

I make a lot of weird audio experiments and mixes, and I first started in high school. My dad had the stereo set up so you could dub from any audio source back to the tape deck. I'd make mixtapes from his record collection and intersperse clips of random TV audio. Was doing it once and intentionally stretching the tape at different points, though since the deck was inputting the TV I couldn't hear what I was getting at the time.

When I listened back, the bit of transition noise I'd caught in my sweet classic reggae mix was a local news anchor describing a football team's horrific and extremely painful-sounding sexual hazing incident, the audio stretched and distorted in all directions made it extra eerie and foreboding. I can remember every syllable of it because it was sonically so bizarre, but the details were just horrendous. Yeah, that shit happens. Football is a f***ed up game that attracts some f***ed up people and creates even more of them. It has its own extreme issues.

You know what, now you mention it there was that foul thing that happened in Ohio (I think, apologies if not) where the local sheriff was turning to blind eye to the abuse of a young girl.

Some people are f***ed up I guess and maybe it's more widespread than I assumed.

 

[Old Gregg]

So what would you describe it as? Because threatening a woman with golf clubs after a rape is an action of a gang.

I know you like to play the devil's advocate, so don't hold back. We have names now.


Simple. The money. Socioeconomic factors change things.

Where has this been stated? I haven't found an article stating this yet

 

[Number8]

Look for them.. they are everywhere.. some avenues just dont get coverage

It sucks......

I guess I'm blissfully naïve.

 

[Melrose Munch]

Where has this been stated? I haven't found an article stating this yet

Court filing reveals new details about alleged Hockey Canada group sexual assault

Some sections of the document have been redacted, but it provides the fullest picture to date of what allegedly transpired in the early morning hours of June 19, 2018

www.theglobeandmail.com

 

[Doshell Propivo]

What do you think gangs do? Sit around and play risk?

They sell drugs …. To make money

Gangs was one example I gave where a group of young males have power or perceived power. It can be about money but doesn't have to be about money. It can be social status. Like a fraternity. Or a popular HS sports team. A group of young males in this environment combined with certain "accelerants" like booze, hazing, drugs, etc. can lead to situations like this.

 

[Number8]

People are less likely to sweep it under the rug, and with social media we get to hear about every incident. I don't think there are more situations (or less for that matter) just we are given the information on every one of them.

How may superstars went to watch football games in the 70s? Probably lots but we didn't hear about it like we hear about Taylor Swift.

What you mean that "Pentagon psyop asset"???

It probably is a result of it being much more visible, as you say.

I will say that I do think that at least one potential positive will come out of this regardless of how court case plays out. Organizations are going to think long and hard before they try to bury shit, and as a result I have to assume they will make clear to their members that some types behavior is abhorrent and dealt with harshly and quickly in future. Not because they are suddenly ethically enlightened but because they will be scared of the blowback this case is finally getting.

 

[SFKingshomer]

This is not unique to this generation.

True but it's all by design from the powers that be. An easily manipulated and feminine society has always been the goal.

 

[SFKingshomer]

Lol ya right this is new thing.....

The only new things is an attempt at holding some people accountable.

I don't recall a highly sexualized generation growing up. Nothing like today, not even close to what my 16 year old has to deal with.

 

[Alex Jones]

True but it's all by design from the powers that be. An easily manipulated and feminine society has always been the goal.

Well if there's one demographic that's impossible to manipulate it's men that pride themselves on their masculinity.

 

[Canadiens Ghost]

Are there any sports organizations, other than Hockey Canada, that have established a trust fund to handle their hush money? Just curious...

Maybe? We only found out recently about the Hockey Canada hush money fund.
Wouldn't surprise me personally.

 

[PunchImlach is Alive]

True but it's all by design from the powers that be. An easily manipulated and feminine society has always been the goal.

For entertainment purposes, I'll bite. Who are "the powers that be"?

 

[Number8]

99.9% (rough estimate) of pro hockey players do NOT engage in sexual assault. Don't let the few bad apples ruin it for you.

I think that's probably true. Which is why all those whose sport is now being "painted" with a negative brush should be all behind making sure that the sociopaths who do this shit are named, shamed, and cancelled.

For example, I wonder if there are more than a few members of the 2003 Canadian Junior hockey team who wish the names of the cretins involved in that shit show just came out already.

And what about a member of the 2018 team that was not involved with this embarrassment but is actually buckling under the pressure of this taint over the team?? Lord knows he doesn't have the luxury of asking for a leave to deal with a problem. He'd be marked as a gang banger in a nanosecond.

Guilty or not - consent or not - these deviant little boys are making a lot of people look really bad by association. Let alone what they've left this girl to deal with. Their behavior was utterly indefensible. They were representing Canada for goodness sake.

Hope they all get cancelled/blacklisted/shunned.... whatever. Regardless of the legal case outcome.

Edit: sorry. Typo on date.

 

[Kerberos]

Look, this is not untrue, but when we're fans of hockey and we're talking on a hockey forum about alleged misbehavior by hockey players that was subsequently covered up by Hockey Canada, we're talking about a hockey problem.

The "yeah well it happens in other sports" is no different than being confronted over alcoholism and going "well, I'm not the only alcoholic." Just because it's a societal problem doesn't mean it isn't also a you problem in that scenario.

And even though there is awful behavior in most monied, male-dominated lanes, hockey's manifestation of this problem has its own specific odor based on the culture and class the athletes are almost universally rooted in. Hockey's problem is the same toxic bullshit with even more expected impunity and even less perspective. We don't have to go down that rabbit hole and probably shouldn't, but "hockey culture" is a distinct thing unto itself, and this problem has its own context within it.

This is a great post and right on the mark.

 

[andora]

It sucks......

I guess I'm blissfully naïve.

It is scum of earth.. i dont think naive is the right word

But the public does not get the full scope of organized sports horror stories anywhere

Hockey to swimming to football to whatever it ia gross

 

[93LEAFS]

I was a bit too graphic a moment ago. I'll try again without the extra. (sorry Mods).

I do think that Junior hockey in particular has a problem. We've seen so many reports of abusive billet situations, predatory coaches, sexual assault claims and settlements, stories of gang sex (2003, 2018), very odd hazing stories, etc, etc.

Gotta be honest -- not sure if I recall seeing so many reports of that kind of stuff in other sports. Bad behavior by players in the pro leagues? Of course. But not the seemingly constant sexualize power plays that the Juniors seem to be plagued with.

It's really really odd, to be honest.

D1 College football is likely as bad or worse to be honest. Northwestern which is an elite university (and one of the top schools with a power 5 football team) had a hazing situation that got a long-tenured head coach fired. Tons of guys face rape allegations or even charges and transfer out. Baylor got off scot free for basically burying sexual assaults for their football team. And, university issues are a much bigger problem, since most are handled by a police department affiliated with the university. Imagine if Hockey Canada or the London Knights had an affiliation with the police department in charge of investigating this. This article is from 2019, so it covers a 5 year span.

Athletes expelled for sex assault find new home, play on at TSU, Austin Peay. And they're not alone

Even when facing or convicted of criminal charges, even when suspended or expelled from school, NCAA rules allow college athletes to transfer elsewhere and keep playing.

www.tennessean.com

An investigation by the USA TODAY Network identified at least 28 current and former athletes since 2014 who transferred to NCAA schools despite being administratively disciplined for a sexual offense at another college. It found an additional five who continued playing after being convicted or disciplined for such offenses through the courts.

 

[Number8]

In my days as a handball player it was a boiled egg up the arse. I guess football players are just tougher like that haha

Are there any local clubs these days? Asking for a friend.

Edit: Apologies, I shouldn't joke. That's probably part of the problem. It was just the sudden insertion of handball hazing with a boiled egg up the ass to the topic that struck my funny bone.

I'll be better.

 

[Strangle]

Gangs was one example I gave where a group of young males have power or perceived power. It can be about money but doesn't have to be about money. It can be social status. Like a fraternity. Or a popular HS sports team. A group of young males in this environment combined with certain "accelerants" like booze, hazing, drugs, etc. can lead to situations like this.

But no matter what, it’s always about money. Even highschool sports, especially in the US