Five members from Canada’s 2018 world junior team (Hart, McLeod, Dube, Foote and Formenton) told to surrender to police, facing sexual assault charges

[McFlyingV]

It has to do with seeing these kinda interactions as normal as well though. These kids having been watching this kinda shit for years online, combine that with the feeling of being untouchable and this shit is bound to happen.

It's even worse cause they obviously could get their own girls. But sex is so degraded that this kinda foolishness seems more normal to young people than trying to have 1 on 1 interactions with the opposite sex and actually giving it some real value. They would probably feel like "simps" but end up in a situation where theyre damn near humping each other instead.

Sure, a lot of factors influence this kind of behaviour. I just wanted to point out that group assaults like this have very little to do with actual pleasure of the act itself, but rather pleasure in the power they feel being able to control and humiliate a woman. As you said it makes them feel untouchable, and it's a disgusting culture. They deserve to have their careers and lives turned upside down much like they've done to the life of the victim. There's absolutely nothing to feel sorry for them about.

 

[holy]

Sure, a lot of factors influence this kind of behaviour. I just wanted to point out that group assaults like this have very little to do with actual pleasure of the act itself, but rather pleasure in the power they feel being able to control and humiliate a woman. As you said it makes them feel untouchable, and it's a disgusting culture. They deserve to have their careers and lives turned upside down much like they've done to the life of the victim. There's absolutely nothing to feel sorry for them about.

I'm not really losing sleep over it, and I don't imagine this is anything new in terms of goings on surrounding these type of crowds as everyday creeps from the past are being exposed.

I just hope we can better start to come to terms with what's out of line. We know how accessible it is for people to view this kinda imagery online so i just hope this event is a learning lesson more than a righteous chest thumping.

 

[TheSmokingMan]

And lastly what you're talking about isn't 'toxic hockey culture', its toxic celebrity/class/fame/money/power culture which IS NOT specific to only hockey.

No, this is definitely the result of a corrupt hockey culture. Denying that this is a systemic problem is basically taking the same stance as Hockey Canada. We won't be able to fix it until we admit that something in hockey culture is really broken. It isn't just a couple of kids who's heads got too big and made a bad decision. Remember, half of the team likely knew that this was happening.

This is a system that at every turn has enabled these behaviors to thrive and even helped cover them up. It's been going on for decades and no one has stepped in to stop it including other players, coaches, staff, parents, sponsors, scouts, and fans who won't admit there's a bigger problem. It created an environment for this kind of toxic masculinity to thrive and we see the result. Hockey Canada needs to be completely transparent and start cleaning house of anyone who had a hand in allowing it to go on for so long.

 

[Kinnikuniverse]

Honestly, after seeing this, i pretty much don't wanna watch hockey anymore. It sucks, man. Everything i like, from pro sports to wrestling to motorsports and everything in between, is revealed to be rotten to the core. I don't know what i'm gonna do with my life, man. I've loved those stuff since i was a kid. I already feel lost nowadays, now i'll feel even more lost. Sure, i have my family, my GF, taking walks with her, swimming at the pool and traveling around to support my uncle's softball club, but, like...it sucks, man.

 

[nhlfan9191]

Honestly, after seeing this, i pretty much don't wanna watch hockey anymore. It sucks, man. Everything i like, from pro sports to wrestling to motorsports and everything in between, is revealed to be rotten to the core. I don't know what i'm gonna do with my life, man. I've loved those stuff since i was a kid. I already feel lost nowadays, now i'll feel even more lost. Sure, i have my family, my GF, taking walks with her, swimming at the pool and traveling around to support my uncle's softball club, but, like...it sucks, man.

I have to imagine this stuff happens in all sports involving kids within the college demographic that either gets covered up successfully or the victims don’t speak out. I wouldn’t take it out on the entire sport of hockey. If you’re going to boycott anything because of this, boycott Hockey Canada for how they handled this.

 

[gimbznyr]

Honestly, after seeing this, i pretty much don't wanna watch hockey anymore. It sucks, man. Everything i like, from pro sports to wrestling to motorsports and everything in between, is revealed to be rotten to the core. I don't know what i'm gonna do with my life, man. I've loved those stuff since i was a kid. I already feel lost nowadays, now i'll feel even more lost. Sure, i have my family, my GF, taking walks with her, swimming at the pool and traveling around to support my uncle's softball club, but, like...it sucks, man.

Oh christ get over yourself. You're never going to find anything that is 100% "pure:

 

[GQS]

No, this is definitely the result of a corrupt hockey culture. Denying that this is a systemic problem is basically taking the same stance as Hockey Canada. We won't be able to fix it until we admit that something in hockey culture is really broken. It isn't just a couple of kids who's heads got too big and made a bad decision. Remember, half of the team likely knew that this was happening.

When you say 'corrupt hockey culture' to me it means you're saying these kinds of incidents happen the most often in hockey and not in any other sport or at least not to this degree and I say you're 100% WRONG on both counts. Tell me how many NHL players do you remember in recent memory that have gotten into serious trouble where they were charged/arrested for major crimes? Can you list it? Outside of a few cases there hasn't been many has there?

Compare that to other sports and like the NFL list here:

NFL player arrests database: Records since 2000 | USA TODAY Databases | USA TODAY NETWORK

These are arrests, charges and citations of NFL players for crimes more serious than common traffic violations. Almost all of the players belonged to an NFL roster at the time of the incident. In rare cases, a free agent is included only if that player later signs with an NFL team. The data...

databases.usatoday.com

I don't know why you insist on denying the facts and want to paint hockey and the people involved as being all horrible for the actions of a relative few especially when most of those incidents like this case pretty much are happening in lower leagues that don't involve players that were in NHL when it happened. You say to own up to these issues and to not ignore them OK fine lets do that for hockey, but then when I show you facts about what's happening in leagues like the NFL with ACTIVE NFL players you say 'so what' as if you don't want your narrative to be destroyed by having to look through the long list of NFL players who have gotten into trouble with the law in just the past few years let alone having 1,000 players getting into trouble since 2000.

Why do you REFUSE to acknowledge that the NFL has many more players getting into trouble or that an organization like FIFA is wayyy more corrupt and has more issues than hockey? Its like you want people to ignore all that because it doesn't fit your argument and pretend that other sports don't have many major problems as well and that its only hockey that has issues.

If you're going to dump on hockey and its 'toxic culture' at least be honest and compare it with other sports and what's happening there instead of completely ignoring it just because it will negate your argument.

This is a system that at every turn has enabled these behaviors to thrive and even helped cover them up. It's been going on for decades and no one has stepped in to stop it including other players, coaches, staff, parents, sponsors, scouts, and fans who won't admit there's a bigger problem. It created an environment for this kind of toxic masculinity to thrive and we see the result. Hockey Canada needs to be completely transparent and start cleaning house of anyone who had a hand in allowing it to go on for so long.

Again you say that as if everything you list happens exclusively in hockey and it doesn't happen in basketball, football, soccer etc. All you have to do is look at basketball and football in US colleges to see the exact same things happening on a much larger scale that you willingly ignore and pretend it doesn't exist because it would bust your narrative to pieces.

 

[PhysicX]

Oh christ get over yourself. You're never going to find anything that is 100% "pure:

The second part is the truth. There is a lot, A LOT of things happening behind the scenes in most team sports where athletes get paid beyond rational money. In 2007, the U-20 world cup of soccer was hosted by Canada. I am of the same age as those guys, and trust me... Partying with some of them, you could see a major gap in behavior and self-imposed limits. It's a different world man.

 

[TheSmokingMan]

Again you say that as if everything you list happens exclusively in hockey and it doesn't happen in basketball, football, soccer etc. All you have to do is look at basketball and football in US colleges to see the exact same things happening on a much larger scale that you willingly ignore and pretend it doesn't exist because it would bust your narrative to pieces.

I never made a statement saying that hockey is the only sport with a culture that enables this sort of behavior. Honestly, whether it happens in other sports is completely irrelevant. The discussion that needs to happen involves hockey culture, and in particular, Hockey Canada and it's role in enabling these behaviors. Please stop trying to derail the conversation by introducing a bunch of red herrings.

 

[Dion TheFluff]

Honestly, after seeing this, i pretty much don't wanna watch hockey anymore. It sucks, man. Everything i like, from pro sports to wrestling to motorsports and everything in between, is revealed to be rotten to the core. I don't know what i'm gonna do with my life, man. I've loved those stuff since i was a kid. I already feel lost nowadays, now i'll feel even more lost. Sure, i have my family, my GF, taking walks with her, swimming at the pool and traveling around to support my uncle's softball club, but, like...it sucks, man.

maybe try playing some recreational sports? Even if you're not good, it's a good way to get out, get some exercise, build friendships, and still gets you involved in sports.

 

[Strangle]

I agree about leaving home but we have heard lots of stories like Bill Peters, JVB, Babcock etc.

Hockey Canada and the NHL have to clean this stuff up. A absolute zero tolerance policy, instead of covering it up or just saying boys will be boys.

At 18 , the 5 should have known better. If what’s alleged is true it’s all on them.

Hockey culture is toxic.

It’s money, and the promise of money that’s toxic. Not the sport itself.

You’ll find these sorts of decisions anywhere a lot of money is involved

 

[Indrid Cold]

Honestly, after seeing this, i pretty much don't wanna watch hockey anymore. It sucks, man. Everything i like, from pro sports to wrestling to motorsports and everything in between, is revealed to be rotten to the core. I don't know what i'm gonna do with my life, man. I've loved those stuff since i was a kid. I already feel lost nowadays, now i'll feel even more lost. Sure, i have my family, my GF, taking walks with her, swimming at the pool and traveling around to support my uncle's softball club, but, like...it sucks, man.

99.9% (rough estimate) of pro hockey players do NOT engage in sexual assault. Don't let the few bad apples ruin it for you.

 

[GQS]

I never made a statement saying that hockey is the only sport with a culture that enables this sort of behavior. Honestly, whether it happens in other sports is completely irrelevant. The discussion that needs to happen involves hockey culture, and in particular, Hockey Canada and it's role in enabling these behaviors. Please stop trying to derail the conversation by introducing a bunch of red herrings.

It absolutely IS relevant. You can't say hockey culture is toxic and horrible unless you look at how many incidents have happened in the NHL and lower levels of hockey and then compare that number to how many incidents happen in other sports. If hockey has players involved in a hypothetical 100 major incidents over a 10 year span and most every other sport has 10 or less in that same time period then its obvious that hockey is doing much worse than everyone else. On the otherhand if most other sports has their athletes involved in hundreds of incidents, then all of a sudden hockey goes from looking really bad to looking pretty good.

This doesn't mean that hockey magically no longer has to deal with the issues it has, but it does mean that its doing pretty well in dealing with these issues in relation to other sports. If you have no basis of comparison then how do you know if you're doing good or bad?

As far as I've found there's only been a handful of NHL players who have gotten into serious trouble with the law in many decades and a small amount of lower level hockey players who have gotten involved in incidents that are as serious as this current case. Compare hockey's track record to other sports and I'd say hockey is doing pretty well when you consider how many thousands of people who have played hockey over the decades. The bottom line is you're saying hockey culture is 'horrible' when the numbers don't support it and you're throwing the entire sport under the bus for the actions of a few.

 

[Doshell Propivo]

It’s money, and the promise of money that’s toxic. Not the sport itself.

You’ll find these sorts of decisions anywhere a lot of money is involved

money has little to do with it IMO. Get a group of teen boys/young men together for a period of time, mix in power or perceived power (fraternity, big time sports team, gang affiliation, etc.) testosterone and alcohol, and bad things will happen.

 

[Melrose Munch]

Why WOULDN'T you use arrests/charges as an important measurement when it means that whatever that athlete committed was bad enough to warrant police getting involved? It makes no sense to talk about 'toxic culture' and then completely ignore perhaps the most important part of it. We're talking about this case right now as a prime example of 'toxic hockey culture' and yet you want to ignore all the crimes committed by other athletes in other sports leagues to compare if hockey is better or worse than them? Really?

Why don't you simply acknowledge that you're discounting these facts because it doesn't fit your narrative that hockey is really that bad? I point out that very few NHL players have gotten into any serious trouble compared to a league like the NFL which has about 100 of its athletes who have gotten into trouble for minor/major offenses IN JUST THE PAST THREE YEARS ranging from drugs to domestic violence to armed robberies and then all of a sudden facts don't count anymore? Cmon now.

Also your argument that many crimes aren't reported when it comes to athletes is pure BS. Almost EVERYTHING a normal person does in public gets recorded these days let alone a public figure when everyone has a camera in their pocket and CCTVs are all over the place. Heck it became a major news story in Canada and in the hockey world when Auston Matthews flashed his underwear/ass at a female security guard who then got a nice little payday out of it because she was traumatized by the sight of his clothed ass and you're telling me that everything doesn't get reported? Yeah right.

With regards to coverups I'm assuming when there were no charges laid against these players by the police, Hockey Canada simply wanted this to go away and therefore went with the settlement. I think it would be a different story if these players were actually charged at the time and then you would have no choice but to talk about this incident publicly as its happening now.

And lastly what you're talking about isn't 'toxic hockey culture', its toxic celebrity/class/fame/money/power culture which IS NOT specific to only hockey.

Because you're trying to cause a distraction by saying the NFL players get arrested. We all know this. They had their crisis a decade ago with Ray Rice. The fact you think this is about a narrative is a problem. The topic is hockey, why bring up other sports?


The issue is here people like you pretend the sport is clean and the NFL and NBA are the ones with the problems. That's not true. And yes things aren't reported. This case is an example.

It absolutely IS relevant. You can't say hockey culture is toxic and horrible unless you look at how many incidents have happened in the NHL and lower levels of hockey and then compare that number to how many incidents happen in other sports. If hockey has players involved in a hypothetical 100 major incidents over a 10 year span and most every other sport has 10 or less in that same time period then its obvious that hockey is doing much worse than everyone else. On the otherhand if most other sports has their athletes involved in hundreds of incidents, then all of a sudden hockey goes from looking really bad to looking pretty good.

This doesn't mean that hockey magically no longer has to deal with the issues it has, but it does mean that its doing pretty well in dealing with these issues in relation to other sports. If you have no basis of comparison then how do you know if you're doing good or bad?

As far as I've found there's only been a handful of NHL players who have gotten into serious trouble with the law in many decades and a small amount of lower level hockey players who have gotten involved in incidents that are as serious as this current case. Compare hockey's track record to other sports and I'd say hockey is doing pretty well when you consider how many thousands of people who have played hockey over the decades. The bottom line is you're saying hockey culture is 'horrible' when the numbers don't support it and you're throwing the entire sport under the bus for the actions of a few.

You had no problem throwing the NFL under the bus, so I'm calling you out. You're creating a "look over there" distraction when you can't just say the culture is the issue, things haven't been reported and there needs to be reform at the minor levels. This isn't about arrests, it's about preventing future incidents like this.

 

[Melrose Munch]

By Hockey Canada's own admission, they've called the issue "systemic" (Ahead of next hearings, Hockey Canada releases plan to address systemic issues). They've also paid out around $8 million in settlements across 21 cases since 1989. This is just what we know of from Hockey Canada which has operated as a secret slush fund to make these issues go away. I think it's naive to just view it from when it affects NHL players but having this many cases just at the junior level is pretty shocking. It's not to say other sports are cultivating angels but from my own personal involvement with hockey and other sports, there's a pretty significant disparity of these issues in hockey programs comparatively and the reputation that follows it. Again, it's not limited to hockey but development systems within it tend to operate more fraternally and collusively with management than other sports. If you have large organizations paying out hush money to make problems go away for players who aren't even pros, that's not a ringing endorsement of the culture.

@GQS Wake up and smell the coffee. There's been "less arrests" (if you want to talk about that) because they pay people under the table. This is about preventing abuse.

 

[Melrose Munch]

When you say 'corrupt hockey culture' to me it means you're saying these kinds of incidents happen the most often in hockey and not in any other sport or at least not to this degree and I say you're 100% WRONG on both counts. Tell me how many NHL players do you remember in recent memory that have gotten into serious trouble where they were charged/arrested for major crimes? Can you list it? Outside of a few cases there hasn't been many has there?

Compare that to other sports and like the NFL list here:

NFL player arrests database: Records since 2000 | USA TODAY Databases | USA TODAY NETWORK

These are arrests, charges and citations of NFL players for crimes more serious than common traffic violations. Almost all of the players belonged to an NFL roster at the time of the incident. In rare cases, a free agent is included only if that player later signs with an NFL team. The data...

databases.usatoday.com

I don't know why you insist on denying the facts and want to paint hockey and the people involved as being all horrible for the actions of a relative few especially when most of those incidents like this case pretty much are happening in lower leagues that don't involve players that were in NHL when it happened. You say to own up to these issues and to not ignore them OK fine lets do that for hockey, but then when I show you facts about what's happening in leagues like the NFL with ACTIVE NFL players you say 'so what' as if you don't want your narrative to be destroyed by having to look through the long list of NFL players who have gotten into trouble with the law in just the past few years let alone having 1,000 players getting into trouble since 2000.

Why do you REFUSE to acknowledge that the NFL has many more players getting into trouble or that an organization like FIFA is wayyy more corrupt and has more issues than hockey? Its like you want people to ignore all that because it doesn't fit your argument and pretend that other sports don't have many major problems as well and that its only hockey that has issues.

If you're going to dump on hockey and its 'toxic culture' at least be honest and compare it with other sports and what's happening there instead of completely ignoring it just because it will negate your argument.




Again you say that as if everything you list happens exclusively in hockey and it doesn't happen in basketball, football, soccer etc. All you have to do is look at basketball and football in US colleges to see the exact same things happening on a much larger scale that you willingly ignore and pretend it doesn't exist because it would bust your narrative to pieces.

Name the minor, under 20 American football that had this. Here, I'll give you help. Steubenville Ohio. That's just one. I can name at least 2 that are public for minor hockey in Canada and 20 more examples that were paid for and sealed off. Why not go by legal settlements rather than lawsuits? Because hush money makes hockey look bad...

 

[Ninety7]

It absolutely IS relevant. You can't say hockey culture is toxic and horrible unless you look at how many incidents have happened in the NHL and lower levels of hockey and then compare that number to how many incidents happen in other sports. If hockey has players involved in a hypothetical 100 major incidents over a 10 year span and most every other sport has 10 or less in that same time period then its obvious that hockey is doing much worse than everyone else. On the otherhand if most other sports has their athletes involved in hundreds of incidents, then all of a sudden hockey goes from looking really bad to looking pretty good.

This doesn't mean that hockey magically no longer has to deal with the issues it has, but it does mean that its doing pretty well in dealing with these issues in relation to other sports. If you have no basis of comparison then how do you know if you're doing good or bad?

As far as I've found there's only been a handful of NHL players who have gotten into serious trouble with the law in many decades and a small amount of lower level hockey players who have gotten involved in incidents that are as serious as this current case. Compare hockey's track record to other sports and I'd say hockey is doing pretty well when you consider how many thousands of people who have played hockey over the decades. The bottom line is you're saying hockey culture is 'horrible' when the numbers don't support it and you're throwing the entire sport under the bus for the actions of a few.

I know it’s anecdotal, but… Have you ever been around hockey kids growing up? All you had to do was spend 10 minutes in a high school in alberta and you could already tell who they were… and not in a good way… and that was over 10 years ago.

I would definitely say hockey does have a culture problem and at least in Canada it’s worse than any other athletes. The hockey kids were always the biggest assholes, not a peep about football kids or any other sports.

But that was just my experience growing up and I did play hockey.

 

[GQS]

Because you're trying to cause a distraction by saying the NFL players get arrested. We all know this. They had their crisis a decade ago with Ray Rice. The fact you think this is about a narrative is a problem. The topic is hockey, why bring up other sports?

So just to be clear if there was a list of 100 NHL players getting charged/arrested in the past 3 years, you'd be TOTALLY FINE with that and NOT use it as definitive proof that hockey has massive systemic problems in its sport? Yeah right!! LOL. Somehow I'd doubt that when you have no problems with pointing out a few incidents happening in lower leagues and saying 'SEE hockey has huge issues!'

The issue is here people like you pretend the sport is clean and the NFL and NBA are the ones with the problems. That's not true. And yes things aren't reported. This case is an example.

I've said REPEATEDLY in my posts that I agree that hockey has its share of problems however ITS YOU who has turned these relative small amount of players involved in these kinds of incidents into being representative of the entire sport. Remember that saying don't judge an entire group by the actions of a few? Well that's exactly what you're doing here and what makes it even worse is that you're being hypocritical by A) not even comparing hockey's issues with other sports to see if its really that bad and B) holding hockey to a standard that you're not holding any other sport and its athletes to.

- 100 NHL players getting in trouble in three years for you: See that's proof hockey has massive issues among its sport

- 100 NFL players getting in trouble in three years for you: You're deflecting, you're distracting. Stop talking about them

Pretty clear you have different standards for different sports which is why you don't want to make any fair comparisons.

You had no problem throwing the NFL under the bus, so I'm calling you out. You're creating a "look over there" distraction when you can't just say the culture is the issue, things haven't been reported and there needs to be reform at the minor levels. This isn't about arrests, it's about preventing future incidents like this.

I'm giving you a comparison and your response isn't to look at the numbers between different sports and then coming to a facts based conclusion. Instead you choose to simply say 'its a distraction' because YOU CAN'T dispute the numbers and YOU CAN'T refute the facts that show that NHL players aren't involved in many seriously incidents at all over many years.

Again if the numbers were reversed you wouldn't be saying that because why would you when the numbers would be so overwhelmingly in favor of your argument? 'Look at how many NHL players get in trouble every year, but nawww I'm going to put those numbers aside and not use it to support my argument when the discussion is how toxic and horrible hockey culture is'. Yeah sure. LOL.

@GQS Wake up and smell the coffee. There's been "less arrests" (if you want to talk about that) because they pay people under the table. This is about preventing abuse.

Tell me how many incidents you can think of that involved major crimes committed by athletes or other celebrities that were successfully hidden forever from the media, police, private investigators etc. without even so much as a tiny leak? Extremely few if any. Again Auston Matthews exposing his UNDERWEARED ASS to a female security guard made national news in Canada and you're telling me people can hide crimes that are 100x worse with zero leaks? Cmon now.

 

[Frank Drebin]

I still find this whole thing surreal.

The audacity to do what they allegedly did, thinking they were above the law.

And then thinking it was all taken care of.

Over 5 years later, the chickens come home to roost and these incredibly privileged kids have lost almost everything.

Its just insane.

 

[mysterman2]

I would definitely say hockey does have a culture problem and at least in Canada it’s worse than any other athletes. The hockey kids were always the biggest assholes, not a peep about football kids or any other sports.

But that was just my experience growing up and I did play hockey.

Given hockey is canadas top sport this probably rings true...flip it to the states with football/baseball/basketball and you have the exact same phenomena. The stories about Michael Jordan, Mike Piazza, Roger Clemens.....too numerous to count.

 

[Melrose Munch]

So just to be clear if there was a list of 100 NHL players getting charged/arrested in the past 3 years, you'd be TOTALLY FINE with that and NOT use it as definitive proof that hockey has massive systemic problems in its sport? Yeah right!! LOL. Somehow I'd doubt that when you have no problems with pointing out a few incidents happening in lower leagues and saying 'SEE hockey has huge issues!'



I've said REPEATEDLY in my posts that I agree that hockey has its share of problems however ITS YOU who has turned these relative small amount of players involved in these kinds of incidents into being representative of the entire sport. Remember that saying don't judge an entire group by the actions of a few? Well that's exactly what you're doing here and what makes it even worse is that you're being hypocritical by A) not even comparing hockey's issues with other sports to see if its really that bad and B) holding hockey to a standard that you're not holding any other sport and its athletes to.

- 100 NHL players getting in trouble in three years for you: See that's proof hockey has massive issues among its sport

- 100 NFL players getting in trouble in three years for you: You're deflecting, you're distracting. Stop talking about them

Pretty clear you have different standards for different sports which is why you don't want to make any fair comparisons.


I'm giving you a comparison and your response isn't to look at the numbers between different sports and then coming to a facts based conclusion. Instead you choose to simply say 'its a distraction' because YOU CAN'T dispute the numbers and YOU CAN'T refute the facts that show that NHL players aren't involved in many seriously incidents at all over many years.

Again if the numbers were reversed you wouldn't be saying that because why would you when the numbers would be so overwhelmingly in favor of your argument? 'Look at how many NHL players get in trouble every year, but nawww I'm going to put those numbers aside and not use it to support my argument when the discussion is how toxic and horrible hockey culture is'. Yeah sure. LOL.



Tell me how many incidents you can think of that involved major crimes committed by athletes or other celebrities that were successfully hidden forever from the media, police, private investigators etc. without even so much as a tiny leak? Extremely few if any. Again Auston Matthews exposing his UNDERWEARED ASS to a female security guard made national news in Canada and you're telling me people can hide crimes that are 100x worse with zero leaks? Cmon now.

Hockey held itself to the standard. Hockey promoted itself as more noble. Hockey fans called NBA and NFL players thugs and much worse for years. I wouldn't be using arrests because no one was arrested for 6 years. The reality that you refuse to see is that this was swept under the rug by the people who run minor hockey to maintain a false image, that you still buy into.

I still find this whole thing surreal.

The audacity to do what they allegedly did, thinking they were above the law.

And then thinking it was all taken care of.

Over 5 years later, the chickens come home to roost and these incredibly privileged kids have lost almost everything.

Its just insane.

Arrogance and a culture of deceit.

 

[GQS]

I know it’s anecdotal, but… Have you ever been around hockey kids growing up? All you had to do was spend 10 minutes in a high school in alberta and you could already tell who they were… and not in a good way… and that was over 10 years ago.

I would definitely say hockey does have a culture problem and at least in Canada it’s worse than any other athletes. The hockey kids were always the biggest assholes, not a peep about football kids or any other sports.

But that was just my experience growing up and I did play hockey.

Sure I don't doubt what you're saying, however this kind of behavior can happen among ANY athletes from many different sports. People make it sound like this is exclusively a hockey issue when its so plainly obvious that its not and that its a general sports issue. You can't possibly tell me with a straight face that if you go into any highschool where you hang around football or basketball or athletes from most other sports that you wouldn't see the same kinds of behaviors as well.

Also considering hockey is the major sport in Canada its not surprising that with more players there's going to be a higher percentage of not so good people joining and playing hockey. The same goes for football, basketball and baseball in the US where there will be much higher numbers of young people playing those sports who aren't great people and behave poorly.

Here's the thing though. When it comes to hockey it seems like most of these players grow out of those poor behaviors when they reach the NHL because again when you look at the number of NHL players who have been involved in committing major crimes its very few. So something is going right where either badly behaving hockey players are turned into much better behaved individuals by the time they reach the NHL and/or they're getting removed before they reach that far. Can you say the same for NFL players with how many of their athletes are getting in trouble with the law? No you can't.

 

[robertmac43]

ITS YOU who has turned these relative small amount of players involved in these kinds of incidents into being representative of the entire sport.

The sport has major flaws, it's not like this is a one off incident either. The 2003 team is being investigated as well. We had the Mailloux, Cole, and other incidents come to life over the past couple years as well. Not to mention the entire Kyle Beach, Blackhawks saga.

The culture is messed up to it's core when the governing body of the sport in Canada and one of the biggest franchises in the league are covering things up.

 

[GQS]

Hockey held itself to the standard. Hockey promoted itself as more noble. Hockey fans called NBA and NFL players thugs and much worse for years. I wouldn't be using arrests because no one was arrested for 6 years. The reality that you refuse to see is that this was swept under the rug by the people who run minor hockey to maintain a false image, that you still buy into.

When did that happen because I guess I missed the memo. I don't think I've ever heard anyone in hockey say 'We're better people than everyone else in other sports and we're going to hold ourselves to a higher standard' and then in your next sentence you gave the answer. Its some of the fans who might be saying that and that's FAR DIFFERENT than anyone in hockey saying that.

Also going by the numbers the NHL is doing a good job when so few of their athletes are getting into serious trouble. In lower leagues that may be a different case and that needs to be worked on. Now when are other sports going to acknowledge their issues and work on them? We keep going back and forth and you can NEVER dispute the numbers and now its become the NHL needing to be held to a higher standard because they somehow promoted themselves as being better rather than the facts showing that to be true.