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Five members from Canada’s 2018 world junior team (Hart, McLeod, Dube, Foote and Formenton) told to surrender to police, facing sexual assault charges

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TropicOfNoReturn said:
I'm honestly confused. All I said was that we need to be careful not to assume guilt of anyone before they've been tried in a court of law. I am fully in support of charging these players as they have. There is sufficient evidence.

What I'm not in favour of is the general public and social media having a sway or influence on the trial(s) before due process has been carried.


See above.
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I understand your take. I think there are two things in play.

There have been criminal charges laid against 5 members of the 2018 world junior team. If it proceeds to trial the Crown may or may not be able to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that this was non consensual. The burden of proof can be tough with sexual assault so who knows. Seems like you are waiting for the criminal side to play out. Some people have decided they are guilty already but the court will decide the legal challenge.

There is a sizeable group on this board that understand what has been reported about the night that neither side is denying. They are revolted by the actions of a group of hockey players pulling a train on a women in a hotel room. There is enough of that story reported for many people to conclude the guys are guilty of being total douche bags in their opinion.

Now if they are deemed to be criminals on top of being douche bags then it gets allot worse for them but there is no version where they walk away unscathed. Their reputations were forever altered by their actions on that night in London in 2018.
 
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HugeInTheShire said:
When did you connect those dots? Before or after Hart asked too?
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I'm telling you... It's been relatively common knowledge. All of these names. There was a lot of information provided by the media and from the civil case. And then of course the Internet has tons of investigators. 😂

There were 10 guys at the gala who fit the descriptions leaked by Westhead and Kaplan in 2022. Two of those guys had proof they left early and wouldn't have been able to be at the hotel, and Batherson had fairly compelling evidence that he was "pizza guy."

That does of course leave the two bystanders, but I won't name them for posterity, may fall under speculation.
 
ps241 said:
I understand your take. I think there are two things in play.

There have been criminal charges laid against 5 members of the 2018 world junior team. If it proceeds to trial the Crown may or may not be able to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that this was non consensual. The burden of proof can be tough with sexual assault so who knows. Seems like you are waiting for the criminal side to play out. Some people have decided they are guilty already but the court will decide the legal challenge.

There is a sizeable group on this board that understand what has been reported about the night that neither side is denying. They are revolted by the actions of a group of hockey players pulling a train on a women in a hotel room. There is enough of that story reported for many people to conclude the guys are guilty of being total douche bags in their opinion.

Now if they are deemed to be criminals on top of being douche bags then it gets allot worse for them but there is no version where they walk away unscathed. Their reputations were forever altered by their actions on that night in London in 2018.
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Yup. These guys aren't playing in the NHL again. It doesn't matter if they are innocent or not.

Then again whenever we've had a moral uproar there has been a team willing to take the free money, like the Mailloux situation. But this does seem like another level and teams will stay away
 
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Mr Positive said:
Yup. These guys aren't playing in the NHL again. It doesn't matter if they are innocent or not.

Then again whenever we've had a moral uproar there has been a team willing to take the free money, like the Mailloux situation. But this does seem like another level and teams will stay away
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if they aren't found guilty i think they'll be back. maybe not formenton tho
 
tom leafers said:
Fine, take away a 1st rounder from Ottawa.

i did find it very random that the flames released that statement and if anything it makes them look kind of like idiots.
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I’m beginning to feel it’s possible (not certain) that they did what they did to avoid running afoul of the players’ association or any duties they have as an employer. They received word from a player about needing mental health leave. They (likely) knew what was coming and wanted to take advantage of the pretext to show him the door and get him away from the season. They followed the script exactly as if none of this subtext was known. And bye-bye headache. Cynical? Sure. But I do get it in terms of using it as an exit strategy. Downside is if you get called on it in a big way. But there are so many other blameworthy parties in this, it’s probably a reasonable bet that they won’t catch much heat. And they’re likely airtight from an employer perspective. Problem player is now gone.
 
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dirtydanglez said:
if they aren't found guilty i think they'll be back. maybe not formenton tho
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This isn't a normal kind of job though. Ultimately the goal is to sell to your fans. That's why winning matters so much, but more goes into it. The fan disgust for their acts isn't going to outweigh the positive impact these five would have on the ice, and it's not a fun product for the owners to possess
 
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Mr Positive said:
This isn't a normal kind of job though. Ultimately the goal is to sell to your fans. That's why winning matters so much, but more goes into it. The fan disgust for their acts isn't going to outweigh the positive impact they'd have on the ice, and it's not a fun product for the owners to possess
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if they aren't found guilty i dont think the fan disgust will be there or at least at the level to keep them from playing.
 
Apologies if this has been answered already, but if the trial isn't until 2026 like some are saying, are the players allowed to go to Europe and play, or are they barred from leaving Canada?
 
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dirtydanglez said:
if they aren't found guilty i dont think the fan disgust will be there or at least at the level to keep them from playing.
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The thing is that they won't be found innocent either. What they are aiming for is a "he-said she-said" stalemate.

Innocent until proven guilty doesn't exist in the public eye. Also even if they are deemed totally innocent, what's been made public is incredibly suspect and disgusting to most people. There is no great outcome here.
 
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dirtydanglez said:
if they aren't found guilty i dont think the fan disgust will be there or at least at the level to keep them from playing.
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Meanwhile in the real world, Teachers who go through the exact scenario, are ruined for life and need to change careers or move cities. Just a statement nothing more.

I think without some really specific outcome where the victim cleared them somehow, I think they are all radioactive at least in North America.
 
ozzie said:
Meanwhile in the real world, Teachers who go through the exact scenario, are ruined for life and need to change careers or move cities. Just a statement nothing more.

I think without some really specific outcome where the victim cleared them somehow, I think they are all radioactive at least in North America.
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Mr Positive said:
The thing is that they won't be found innocent either. What they are aiming for is a "he-said she-said" stalemate.

Innocent until proven guilty doesn't exist in the public eye. Also even if they are deemed totally innocent, what's been made public is incredibly suspect and disgusting to most people. There is no great outcome here.
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teams knew they players were radioactive when the season started and chose to employ them. if they aren't found guilty i think they'll be back in the league, skill permitting.
 
dirtydanglez said:
teams knew they players were radioactive when the season started and chose to employ them. if they aren't found guilty i think they'll be back in the league, skill permitting.
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It seems obvious now but I don't think the teams really knew. They might have thought it would be tossed out. They likely knew zero details, especially the video tape. Ultimately with no clear message from the police they simply would have no idea what to do and would be paralyzed into the status quo. Even dumb things like that recent Flames statement are not because they are covering anything up or sweeping it under the rug. They just have no clue what to do.

The same will be true in 2026. Teams won't know what's appropriate and the status quo is not to sign them
 
The NHL, without saying anything about the results of their own inquiry, was already taking actions by not allowing any 2018 Team Canada junior members to play in International tournaments.
 
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When did the names get added to the thread title? I thought we didn't get to do that. What time(PST please :D) did new news or whatever break?
 
Bear of Bad News said:
Dude, where have you been? We were worried sick.
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So if someone is off on sick leave, can they be terminated ?

Maybe a lawyer said to Dube "your sick man" any doctor will sign for that, at least you have a better chance to run your contract out vs contract termination ?
 
Mr Positive said:
It seems obvious now but I don't think the teams really knew. They might have thought it would be tossed out. They likely knew zero details, especially the video tape. Ultimately with no clear message from the police they simply would have no idea what to do and would be paralyzed into the status quo. Even dumb things like that recent Flames statement are not because they are covering anything up or sweeping it under the rug. They just have no clue what to do.

The same will be true in 2026. Teams won't know what's appropriate and the status quo is not to sign them
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No, I think at least some knew. I've seen rumors that the teams actually believed this was coming sooner and the players would be suspended for this season, and I believe that.

The Flyers 100% operated like they expected Hart gone. They already had one of the league's strongest goalie pipelines, but they spent a 2nd and 3rd on goalies in the draft. Gave Ersson a multi-year extension after just a handful of games, a full year before his RFA deal expired. Accepted Peterson as a cap dump, reportedly conducted 0 extension talks with Hart to date, and yeah, tried to trade him.

Given that even fans could read the tea leaves that, if anything came of it, he'd likely be involved...I'd say the Flyers' actions pretty obviously aligned with it.
 
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Rich Nixon said:
No, I think at least some knew. I've seen rumors that the teams actually believed this was coming sooner and the players would be suspended for this season, and I believe that.

The Flyers 100% operated like they expected Hart gone. They already had one of the league's strongest goalie pipelines, but they spent a 2nd and 3rd on goalies in the draft. Gave Ersson a multi-year extension after just a handful of games, a full year before his RFA deal expired. Accepted Peterson as a cap dump, reportedly conducted 0 extension talks with Hart to date, and yeah, tried to trade him.

Given that even fans could read the tea leaves that, if anything came of it, he'd likely be involved...I'd say the Flyers' actions pretty obviously aligned with it.
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It could be that they were eager to move on without knowing much. That they didn't even want a hint of controversy or that chance of it.
 
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