Five members from Canada’s 2018 world junior team (Hart, McLeod, Dube, Foote and Formenton) told to surrender to police, facing sexual assault charges

[I am toxic]

Why is Westhead breaking this news? I thought some guy in Montreal was always a step ahead of him? /sarcasm

 

[llwyd]

Eye for an eye, is never good. Although the desire for same in heinous cases is indeed understandable and quite human.

That said, the price for such inhumane treatment of another human being should be severe. Far far beyond being required to show real remorse.

I said that would be the best thing, not the only thing. There should obviously be imprisonment for a reasonable period of time, but not in any jungle like brutalizing conditions but in our Nordic style civilized circumstances. With actual possibility of rehabilitation.

 

[Gabriel426]

If it were my daughter I’d vote 1 then 2 in that order. If they were on fire I wouldn’t waste my piss on them, personally.

They’ve already been radicalized by something so I think that‘s double jeopardy.

There is actually an urban legend over 15-20yrs in Hong Kong(bc I have never seen it and only heard it among friends) that if you get caught getting a prostitute in China, the police will stamp Punter in their passport.

 

[Gabriel426]

Innocent until proven guilty but it is so hard not to take side with the woman bc everyone post here understands or at least know the hockey culture with teens….

All these kids have been getting away with pretty much everything since they were kids bc they are good at Hockey. Not saying all of them are entitled but it just wouldn’t surprise me if this indeed happened.

 

[BonHoonLayneCornell]

Innocent until proven guilty but it is so hard not to take side with the woman bc everyone post here understands or at least know the hockey culture with teens….

All these kids have been getting away with pretty much everything since they were kids bc they are good at Hockey. Not saying all of them are entitled but it just wouldn’t surprise me if this indeed happened.

That and all the details available. At best, they displayed some pretty deplorable behavior that would have them out of my circles, guilty verdict in court or not.

 

[frisco]

What might be the fallout if players/management who aren't charged with a crime but testify in court as witnesses and it comes out that they knew of the crimes before, during and/or after the fact, but did nothing to stop the activity nor mitigate the situation in any fashion?

I know there's no legal requirement to be a "Good Samaritan" in a technical sense, but might there be outrage from fan bases against persons for not doing the right thing from a moral perspective? Basically, Player X knew Player Y was engaging in criminal behavior, but Player X did not use any influence to stop Player Y nor reported the incident to anyone.

Will we see any witnesses take the 5th (I know it will be a Canadian case--just using the expression) on the stand to avoid possible legal action either criminal or civil?

Many in the Chicago-Kris Beach situation were punished for knowing about the abuse and refusing to stand up to it and stop it or just ignoring the wrong-doing altogether.

My Best-Carey

 

[sxvnert]

at least know the hockey culture with teens…

They should ask the other three major sports how their teens become such upstanding citizens.

 

[iCanada]

What might be the fallout if players/management who aren't charged with a crime but testify in court as witnesses and it comes out that they knew of the crimes before, during and/or after the fact, but did nothing to stop the activity nor mitigate the situation in any fashion?

I know there's no legal requirement to be a "Good Samaritan" in a technical sense, but might there be outrage from fan bases against persons for not doing the right thing from a moral perspective? Basically, Player X knew Player Y was engaging in criminal behavior, but Player X did not use any influence to stop Player Y nor reported the incident to anyone.

Will we see any witnesses take the 5th (I know it will be a Canadian case--just using the expression) on the stand to avoid possible legal action either criminal or civil?

Many in the Chicago-Kris Beach situation were punished for knowing about the abuse and refusing to stand up to it and stop it or just ignoring the wrong-doing altogether.

My Best-Carey

This is not how the law works in Canada. In Canada, a witness can be forced to answer incriminating questions.

 

[HugeInTheShire]

It's definitely a pretty minor sin compared to this whole story, but I'm surprised to see people defending the Flames PR. It seemed so obvious at the time this was likely connected to the London sexual assault innocent. It would have been so easy for the Flames to say "Dube is on leave from the team - we will offer no further comment".

Take a look at the thread about Dube requesting a leave of absence, zero talk of 2018 until after the news broke. People keep saying that it was obvious, yet at the time they said nothing.
It wasn't until after that it became obvious.

IMO Dube likely told him it was a mental health problem and the Flames took him at his word on it. They didn't ask for specifics because, that's not their business, nor do they have a right to know exactly what is wrong.

We can't back date what we know just because we now know it was BS.

 

[Gabriel426]

They should ask the other three major sports how their teens become such upstanding citizens.

I didn’t say the other cultures are Saints. Or they are better than Hockey Culture.

 

[iCanada]

Take a look at the thread about Dube requesting a leave of absence, zero talk of 2018 until after the news broke. People keep saying that it was obvious, yet at the time they said nothing.
It wasn't until after that it became obvious.

IMO Dube likely told him it was a mental health problem and the Flames took him at his word on it. They didn't ask for specifics because, that's not their business, nor do they have a right to know exactly what is wrong.

We cant' back date what we know just because we now know it was BS.

Keep in mind there was a ban on any speculation... Also keep in mind that that post had an obscene amount of deleted posts.

But for posterity;

We knew. These 5 names have been widely known since 2022 when the civil case and original hockey Canada case came to fruition.

 

[Gabriel426]

What might be the fallout if players/management who aren't charged with a crime but testify in court as witnesses and it comes out that they knew of the crimes before, during and/or after the fact, but did nothing to stop the activity nor mitigate the situation in any fashion?

I know there's no legal requirement to be a "Good Samaritan" in a technical sense, but might there be outrage from fan bases against persons for not doing the right thing from a moral perspective? Basically, Player X knew Player Y was engaging in criminal behavior, but Player X did not use any influence to stop Player Y nor reported the incident to anyone.

Will we see any witnesses take the 5th (I know it will be a Canadian case--just using the expression) on the stand to avoid possible legal action either criminal or civil?

Many in the Chicago-Kris Beach situation were punished for knowing about the abuse and refusing to stand up to it and stop it or just ignoring the wrong-doing altogether.

My Best-Carey

The thing is, the player you described could be Makar as I believe he was on that team.

 

[Yukon Joe]

Take a look at the thread about Dube requesting a leave of absence, zero talk of 2018 until after the news broke. People keep saying that it was obvious, yet at the time they said nothing.
It wasn't until after that it became obvious.

IMO Dube likely told him it was a mental health problem and the Flames took him at his word on it. They didn't ask for specifics because, that's not their business, nor do they have a right to know exactly what is wrong.

We can't back date what we know just because we now know it was BS.

No, it was obvious. HFBoards just banned anyone from saying it was connected until 2018 as it was "speculation".

And I mean - it was speculation - just really and obvious speculation.

 

[krutovsdonut]

Take a look at the thread about Dube requesting a leave of absence, zero talk of 2018 until after the news broke. People keep saying that it was obvious, yet at the time they said nothing.
It wasn't until after that it became obvious.

IMO Dube likely told him it was a mental health problem and the Flames took him at his word on it. They didn't ask for specifics because, that's not their business, nor do they have a right to know exactly what is wrong.

We cant' back date what we know just because we now know it was BS.

yeah, the people going off on the flames are wrong to draw any inference the flames knew from the facts (which suggest the opposite) and also seem poorly informed about how to handle mental health issues based on their ridiculous expectation an employer should throw shade at an employee claiming mental health issues because that employee might be charged with an offence for which the employer is pretty much obliged to assume he is innocent. unless the employer has evidence in their possession that the employee does not have a mental health issue or is guilty of the crime charged, they have to give the employee the benefit of the doubt if he has credible medical advice confirming ae issue, and any mental health professional would advise them to do so anyway since there is a very high correlation between mental health issues and problems with the criminal justice system. basically, the flames would be seriously offside to have doubted dube in this situation and, in fact, especially knowing he was potentially facing criminal charges.

 

[HugeInTheShire]

Keep in mind there was a ban on any speculation... Also keep in mind that that post had an obscene amount of deleted posts.

But for posterity;

We knew. These 5 names have been widely known since 2022 when the civil case and original hockey Canada case came to fruition.

Did it have deleted posts before all the other guys started requesting LOA's? I don't remember it, if it did. Even the Reddit post was from a week ago, not 10 days ago when Dube requested the leave of absence.
I could be way off but, I don't remember anyone saying anything about Dube at the time of the leave of absence, it wasn't until the others all started too, that it became clear it was BS

 

[Bear of Bad News]

No, it was obvious. HFBoards just banned anyone from saying it was connected until 2018 as it was "speculation".

Man, I wish.

 

[abax44]

Good luck getting money out of us - too many people using ad blockers these days.

Have you considered teaming up with an add blocking company? Sell blockers on one hand and show ads to those too cheap to buy one on the other. You'd win the internet.

 

[AcerComputer]

What I find shocking is that TSN had this article plastered on the main page as the lead article that they were being charged. Now that each of them have made it know they will pleaded not guilty and maintain their innocence the article has been downgraded as the main article. Crazy times.

Five 2018 WJC players to plead not guilty, maintain innocence: Lawyers | TSN

 

[HugeInTheShire]

No, it was obvious. HFBoards just banned anyone from saying it was connected until 2018 as it was "speculation".

And I mean - it was speculation - just really and obvious speculation.

If that's the case why does that thread not have any warning about speculating? I'm not saying you're wrong but I find it odd that the moderators didn't say anything about it, just deleted everything and said nothing and then locked it.

 

[Bear of Bad News]

Have you considered teaming up with an add blocking company? Sell blockers on one hand and show ads to those too cheap to buy one on the other. You'd win the internet.

Our secret contract with our ad blocking company prohibits me from...ah, shit.

No, we haven't considered that.

 

[abax44]

Our secret contract with our ad blocking company prohibits me from...ah, shit.

No, we haven't considered that.

Well, I must say ad blocker <redacted> has been working great for me.

 

[Da McBomb]

Did it have deleted posts before all the other guys started requesting LOA's? I don't remember it, if it did. Even the Reddit post was from a week ago, not 10 days ago when Dube requested the leave of absence.
I could be way off but, I don't remember anyone saying anything about Dube at the time of the leave of absence, it wasn't until the others all started too, that it became clear it was BS

Yah the mods deleted a whole bunch of posts early in that thread of anyone connecting the dots between Dube's LOA and the rape scandal. My post got deleted [mod]

 

[krutovsdonut]

No, it was obvious. HFBoards just banned anyone from saying it was connected until 2018 as it was "speculation".

And I mean - it was speculation - just really and obvious speculation.

the investigation liegered for months. even after the charges leaked with a firm daeadline police would not confirm who was being charged to anyone until they were formally charged, so they sure as hell weren't telling the flames a week earlier. the prosecutor wasn't telling them either for the same reasons. assuming dube knew there was a date certain when he sought the leave, he could have told them, but his lawyers and agent could not do so without dube's permission. dube's lawyers would also have told him not to discuss the case with anyone because those discussions could become evidence, so i doubt he was telling friend, current teammates or even family about what was happening. dube also would be told by his lawyers not to talk to the others facing charges to avoid being accused of colluding on their evidence.

so he had literally nobody but hiw lawyer and psychiatrist to talk to. maybe not even his agent.

so unless the flames had a mole in the london police department leaking information, odds are they are telling the truth and did not know.

it's also not a safe assumption dube knew there was a date certain to be charged when he took the leave. he may just have known charges were likely coming soon and that was the last straw for his mental health to play hockey, or the pressure of things coming to a head took its toll on him even before he knew for sure he was being charged.

 

[HugeInTheShire]

Yah the mods deleted a whole bunch of posts early in that thread of anyone connecting the dots between Dube's LOA and the rape scandal. My post got deleted

When did you connect those dots? Before or after Hart asked too?

 

[abax44]

in all seriousness, I and I bet many others would be cool with some sort of premium pkg, maybe access to a hidden subforum or something

They have this on another forum I'm on. You have to have X amount of posts/"service time" and it's not found in a Google search. They don't charge for it, but it's a smaller board, so less costly to run.