Five members from Canada’s 2018 world junior team (Hart, McLeod, Dube, Foote and Formenton) told to surrender to police, facing sexual assault charges

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SmytheKing

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Apr 7, 2007
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I'm really disappointed in Dillon if he was involved in this and I hope that if this is the case, he never plays another game for the Flames.

I do think with the criticism the NHL took over the way they handled the Blackhawks situation, it is possible that the NHL will use this opportunity to severely punish the Flames.
No chance. They didn't obstruct justice or anything. They made a statement that was, at best, ignorant and careless. At worst it was misleading. They might get fined at most and I'd even be surprised at that.
 
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Number8

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Oct 31, 2007
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The police didn't call the Flames to ask permission to charge him. A memo wasn't sent to them

Funny to see some people so disgusted with the Flames org when infact the truly disgusting behaviour is the people who are making a big deal of this and inserting themselves into like it was a direct slight on them and they are owed something
With all due respect, there are many disgusting aspects to this mess. And some of those aspects truly fit the very definition of disgusting.

However, having a go at the Flames for what appears to be at least a pretty obtuse PR effort is not one of them. Maybe it's not fair. Maybe it's not informed. Who knows? But it's not disgusting.

I think you are being dramatic. Overly so.
 

Frank Drebin

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The police didn't call the Flames to ask permission to charge him. A memo wasn't sent to them

Funny to see some people so disgusted with the Flames org when infact the truly disgusting behaviour is the people who are making a big deal of this and inserting themselves into like it was a direct slight on them and they are owed something
They sent thoughts and prayers for nothing!
 
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Yukon Joe

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Aug 3, 2011
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It is absolutely hilarious that some people here are trying to blame the whole goddamn sport of hockey for this incident.

Really? I don't see it.

I mean it's obvious that the literal sport of hockey itself is not responsible. The fact people put skates on their feet and hit a rubber puck around the ice doesn't cause people to become rapists.

But is there a culture around the sport of hockey? Do elite hockey players feel entitled? Is there a vague sense of misogeny around the world of hockey? A lot of people think so.

That being said - obviously the main blame is always on the abuser themselves. 100%.

But just as I said before - more than one thing can be true at the same time. Just because the blame lies with the abuser doesn't mean we can't or shouldn't also look at the culture around hockey and the extent to which it might make such offences more likely.
 

Habby4Life

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Most of this stuff is learned from teammates and coaches when the boys are often already away from home living with billet families.

Which may be an issue in itself. Kid leaves home at 15 , misses out on many necessary parent son talks because they weren't age appropriate when the kid was still at home.

I agree about leaving home but we have heard lots of stories like Bill Peters, JVB, Babcock etc.

Hockey Canada and the NHL have to clean this stuff up. A absolute zero tolerance policy, instead of covering it up or just saying boys will be boys.

At 18 , the 5 should have known better. If what’s alleged is true it’s all on them.

Hockey culture is toxic.
 

Melrose Munch

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Mar 18, 2007
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It is absolutely hilarious that some people here are trying to blame the whole goddamn sport of hockey for this incident.

I'm sure you don't go after other cultures when some happens that is horrific
The police didn't call the Flames to ask permission to charge him. A memo wasn't sent to them

Funny to see some people so disgusted with the Flames org when infact the truly disgusting behaviour is the people who are making a big deal of this and inserting themselves into like it was a direct slight on them and they are owed something
The Flames mentioned mental health. Why not say he was going on leave? Of course, the anger is over the top but it is self-inflicted.
 

GeeoffBrown

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Jul 6, 2007
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No chance. They didn't obstruct justice or anything. They made a statement that was, at best, ignorant and careless. At worst it was misleading. They might get fined at most and I'd even be surprised at that.
Well, I am already preparing myself for a reality where during a retool, the Flames will be sending 1 first round pick to the Montreal Canadiens and 1 to the NHL.

Obviously, these hardships are small compared to what the alleged victim went through.
 

Frank Drebin

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I agree about leaving home but we have heard lots of stories like Bill Peters, JVB, Babcock etc.

Hockey Canada and the NHL have to clean this stuff up. A absolute zero tolerance policy, instead of covering it up or just saying boys will be boys.

At 18 , the 5 should have known better. If what’s alleged is true it’s all on them.

Hockey culture is toxic.
I think they knew better at 16. They were taught differently by the time they turned 18.
 

Cubs2024wildcard

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Apr 29, 2015
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There was lots of talk that the whole investigation was coming to an end soon. The whole hockey world knew that Dube was a one of the 8 players who gave very vague statements in the beginning.. so the Flames should have known better than to release their statement and linking Dube's absence to mental illness. Those of you defendng the Flames in this case should understand why so many people are angry with the Flames as well as Dube. Mental illness awareness has actually come a long way in the last few years and by linking this whole case with mental illness.. it just gives it a really bad name and may even set back the progress that has been made the last several years.

Even if Dube mentioned to the Flames that he was suffering from mental illness or lying about it, there is no real reason for the Flames to include this in their statement knowing VERY WELL that Dube was linked to this whole scandal. The Flames should have just kept it very simple like the other teams and not even mention 'mental illness' in their statement. (And if the Flames were to use 'mental illness' as a reason for Dube's leave, then they should have done their due dilligence to make sure it was due to other reasons not related to this rape case). I mean.. some people were feeling bad for Dube and giving him sympathy and well wishes when the Flames first released that statement... like how twisted is that??
I'm not defending that scumbag, but there's no doubt Dube is suffering from an onslaught of severe depression for his stupid actions.

(In my Obi Wan voice)
So what he's saying could be true....from a certain point of view.

I'm staying on the sidelines with this topic only because you have human pieces of shit who did something so callous the more that gets released about it and I have better things to do then point out trash human beings are trash for God knows how many pages this thread is going to end up at.
 

Melrose Munch

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Mar 18, 2007
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They sent thoughts and prayers for nothing!
Look, I agree with you, but they put "mental health" in the initial statement of their own volition. If they don't owe anyone anything, just say Dube is going on leave and no comment. Again, the anger is over the top but this is yet another self inflicted wound from one of the most incompetent ownership groups in sports.
 
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iCanada

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Feb 6, 2010
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Well, I am already preparing myself for a reality where during a retool, the Flames will be sending 1 first round pick to the Montreal Canadiens and 1 to the NHL.

Obviously, these hardships are small compared to what the alleged victim went through.

Nah, if anything the NHL awards franchises defending rapists and helping them move on to life with other victims.

Just ask the Blackhawks.
 

Moon Man

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Oct 3, 2015
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I'm really disappointed in Dillon if he was involved in this and I hope that if this is the case, he never plays another game for the Flames.

I do think with the criticism the NHL took over the way they handled the Blackhawks situation, it is possible that the NHL will use this opportunity to severely punish the Flames.
Hey, what was the Blackhawks situation? Is it the Corey Perry one?
 

AnInjuredJasonZucker

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Feb 21, 2014
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Again people are mad at the flames, and maybe rightfully so since they release a prior statement, but Dube lied. That's the problem here. We have a pattern of it now, so what else is he lying about?
At best, the Flames were willfully ignorant. It's emblematic of the larger problem. The first instinct of the power brokers is to look for ways to protect predators.

There have been comments in here on how the Senators handled Formenton, and who was behind that decision. That may shed some light on the underlying issues.
 

Melrose Munch

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Mar 18, 2007
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At best, the Flames were willfully ignorant. It's emblematic of the larger problem. The first instinct of the power brokers is to look for ways to protect predators.

There have been comments in here on how the Senators handled Formenton, and who was behind that decision. That may shed some light on the underlying issues.
Agreed 100 percent. The Flames took Dube at his word, which is a problem.
 

Yukon Joe

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Hey, what was the Blackhawks situation? Is it the Corey Perry one?
Blackhawks video coach Brad Aldrich sexually assaulted two team members. When the Blackhawks found out they didn't report it to police. They did fire Aldrich, but gave him a good reference which allowed him to get a college hockey job where he promptly abused more people.

We still don't exactly know what happened with perry. I mean Perry obviously did something, but it might be that given that past history the Blackhawks are a little more "zero tolerance" than other franchises.
 
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Three On Zero

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The police didn't call the Flames to ask permission to charge him. A memo wasn't sent to them

Funny to see some people so disgusted with the Flames org when infact the truly disgusting behaviour is the people who are making a big deal of this and inserting themselves into like it was a direct slight on them and they are owed something
Well and the statement was likely approved by the teams lawyers, more goes into sending out a statement like this than just the Calgary PR team making something up
 

Number8

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Oct 31, 2007
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I just think its hilarious that everyone is upset because of their misdirected thoughts and prayers.
With all due respect, I think that's pretty human.

1) I have a "feel good" moment where a young man publicly says he's going to step away from to me a dream job to take care of his mental health. I think -- good for him and very brave too. I hope his journey takes him to a better spot. I communicate that out loud because I really do wish the best for him.

2) Almost immediately thereafter, I find out that the cause of his mental health issues is fear over being arrested, losing his career, and (one would hope) guilt over the fact that at best he was involved in a gang sexual event in which a young lady was used, penetrated, had genitals waived in /on her face, spit on, ejaculated on, and slapped.

Average person is going to feel like they were made a fool of, and be angry over that. They just are.

No one likes to feel empathy and sympathy for someone who behaves in a way that is abhorrent and completely at odds with your ethics and morals.

And I ain't some holy roller do gooder, either. I just don't train/abuse/use women. And before you congratulate me on that, let's just remember It's Not A High Bar to attain.
 

Frank Drebin

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With all due respect, I think that's pretty human.

1) I have a "feel good" moment where a young man publicly says he's going to step away from to me a dream job to take care of his mental health. I think -- good for him and very brave too. I hope his journey takes him to a better spot. I communicate that out loud because I really do wish the best for him.

2) Almost immediately thereafter, I find out that the cause of his mental health issues is fear over being arrested, losing his career, and (one would hope) guilt over the fact that at best he was involved in a gang sexual event in which a young lady was used, penetrated, had genitals waived in /on her face, spit on, ejaculated on, and slapped.

Average person is going to feel like they were made a fool of, and be angry over that. They just are.

No one likes to feel empathy and sympathy for someone who behaves in a way that is abhorrent and completely at odds with your ethics and morals.

And I ain't some holy roller do gooder, either. I just don't train/abuse/use women. And before you congratulate me on that, let's just remember It's Not A High Bar to attain.
I guess thats fair. I just find that a lot of the comments around public figures personal struggles are really empty words. "I hope he gets the help he needs, etc" My post was more taking a shot at those empty words. Anyway, probably not the time for that.
 

Puckclektr

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Jul 15, 2004
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No one knows what role these parents had in how their kids grew up. Blaming them particularly is a bad look for sure, agreed.

But, a weekend spent at an Ontario AA or AAA hockey tournament is an eye opening experience. No shortage of nut job parents roaming the rink.

Not all of them, obviously, but the ones who are, are very easy to pick out.
the same can be said for A, Select, B, BB, EE and house league. In fact the ones that seem the less crazy are the AAA ones.
 
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