Five members from Canada’s 2018 world junior team (Hart, McLeod, Dube, Foote and Formenton) told to surrender to police, facing sexual assault charges

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Well, it did hush things up for quite a while. This investigation has shown that it also was used in other cases in the past, quite successfully.

Again, this is a criminal case. I am not a lawyer, but i would assume that offering money to a witness in a criminal case to influence their testimony would in itself be a crime.

The money paid was a settlement of a civil suit - different playground.
While it was definitely used in a disturbing hush money matter in this case the fund isn’t just for that. 9 of the settlements previously paid out were to Graham James’ abuse victims. It seems likely that there will have been other cases in the past where rather than covering up misconduct of their players, the money was paid out to victims who had been abused by coaches employed by Hockey Canada

I followed that case a few years back, I still don't think there is an accepted theory is there?
No. It’s a mess of a case and you could do a deep dive and come to the conclusion it was one of 3 people (with one being an unknown stranger) or still have no idea which of the 3 it was. I wouldn’t recommend it though. You’ll probably just walk out of it furious at how badly the police messed that up and denied justice to that poor little girl
 
I don't recall, there have been quite a few examples of true crime junkies doing enough dilligence and blabbing to get cops on a case.

Paywalled, but this article does a really good job walking through the path from the initial incident to where we are now. Robson: In Hockey Canada sex assault scandal, the gatekeepers of justice all fell short

Some key nuggets:







So: Good reporting broke the initial story as a result of the settlement, then more reporting followed, then government hearings, then it reopened.

Thanks for the extra info

I didn’t know you could settle a lawsuit on behalf of all parties.

I can’t help but keep thinking that police corruption, with all that money flying around and closing the investigation.

No proof, of course, just a hunch

Well everything I’ve read was that she sued the players (list as John Doe 1-8), Hockey Canada and the CHL. I could be totally wrong but would think that would settle the claim for the alleged assault for everyone.

For a PI case (at least in BC) you have to sign a release to get the settlement that prevents you from filing a new claim for the same accident.

When there’s a claim in construction, everyone involved in the project gets named and typically insurance ends up paying whoever incurred the loss. All the parties end up having a whole behind the scenes debate with lawyers and insurance about who is responsible for how much of it. You can end up in a very long process that had absolutely nothing to do with your work because someone else made an error

I doubt we’d see a separate civil suit over the alleged assault (and I’m very skeptical she’s allowed to file another one with named players) but I would be interested to see if the players were to be found guilty if Hockey Canada (or their insurer) would pursue the players to get back some of the money they have paid out

Unbelievable. I don’t know anything about this stuff, obviously lol

Thank you for taking the time and thanks for the info
 
BTW, things like this were going on as far back as the 70's on junior teams for "initiation". Not always, and not with all teams, but it always creeped me out hearing about these things.
Yeah, the article talks about a lot of old school stuff but does say one of the players played in the CHL as early as 2014, so only a few years before this incident. It honestly sickens me reading some of these details.
 
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Ruggs was bad, but as bad as rape? That was a car crash and a horrific one.

This is more comparable to the Vikings boat incident in the 2000s.

I'm saying people were calling NBA players thugs for years. Now the shoe is on the other foot, excuses.
I will play long...for the shoe on the other foot of course. Lets set the parameters of idk 10 years? idk you can pick.

show your work nfl and nba players convicted of something versus nhl.....
 
BTW, things like this were going on as far back as the 70's on junior teams for "initiation". Not always, and not with all teams, but it always creeped me out hearing about these things.
When I played, it started to get weird once I got to high school hockey to the point where I quit playing for my school and started playing and coaching for my town program instead. It was gross. There was an absurd amount of hazing. Coaches just kept out of the locker room to make it all out of sight, out of mind. I would almost never shower after practices and games until I got home. The handful of people that complained were mercilessly bullied. Absolutely no privacy to raise concerns and coaches really worked in concert with their players to preserve their bubble. I was buddies with enough people at other schools to deduce this was pretty much the norm. The more you elevated yourself within your school's program, the worse it would all get.
 
"At one point, Dr. Johnson pointed out that, “The term ‘whore-show’ is common among players throughout the major junior hockey system in Canada. This is a term used to describe a sexual encounter involving one female and several members of the same team. Women that take part in these events are referred to as ‘whore-show girls’ and players who organize and orchestrate them are often praised and rewarded for their accomplishments. Due to the competitiveness and jealousy between teammates, these sexual events sometimes become violent and aggressive, leaving the women feeling scared, hurt, and alone to deal with these traumatic experiences."


And some people say there is no problem with Hockey culture.

How was the gala honey?

- Ok mom

Did you see Player A?

- Yeah he set us up a sweet whore-show

Oh ok honey. I'm proud of you
 
There's more btw from the same article:

"Players described everything from the infamous “sweat box” where players are forced naked into the washroom of the team bus to things as heinous as forced anal penetration with hockey sticks, forced masturbation and forced consumption of semen, public nudity, forced shaving of pubic hair and sexual aggression with a lack of female consent."

Really makes you wonder why the golf clubs were brought to the hotel at 2-something am when you read this.
This is just really f***ed up, derranged behavior. Sodomizing people with foreign objects isn't hazing, it's straight up rape and should be treated as such.
 
"At one point, Dr. Johnson pointed out that, “The term ‘whore-show’ is common among players throughout the major junior hockey system in Canada. This is a term used to describe a sexual encounter involving one female and several members of the same team. Women that take part in these events are referred to as ‘whore-show girls’ and players who organize and orchestrate them are often praised and rewarded for their accomplishments. Due to the competitiveness and jealousy between teammates, these sexual events sometimes become violent and aggressive, leaving the women feeling scared, hurt, and alone to deal with these traumatic experiences."


And some people say there is no problem with Hockey culture.
What the f*** is this
 
I would be really cautious about judging a better course of action based on some YouTube videos which can cause a lot of paranoia and fear. Or the reverse by giving you a false sense of security because you may have seen a few tips online.

I live in NYC. I hear from all sorts of people who don't live here how dangerous it is based on what they see on the internet and given all sorts of safety tips that are outrageously naive. Quite frankly this is the safest place I've ever lived to almost a comical degree.

Point being, you can take every precaution you want to protect yourself but if someone wants to hurt you or take advantage of you, they are going to try and find a way to hurt you or take advantage of you. Those people come in all sorts of shapes, sizes, colors, backgrounds, and situations. Most victims of a crime aren't drunk. They almost never see it coming. Most perpetrators of a crime aren't drunk. They just do what they know or think they can get away with.

In this specific case, would a lack of alcohol really change anything? She went to her room consensually with one person. Even if that was done completely sober, it really doesn't absolve inviting a handful of your buddies into the room. At that point, there's a significant imbalance of power happening. You don't completely know what those people are going to do. In any situation, sober or not, someone suddenly surrounds you with a bunch of their friends and you're alone in a room with all of them, it's very easy to see how someone could get coerced into doing something they may not be thrilled about participating in. She didn't decide to be in that situation. The people accused did what they knew or thought they could get away with.

We can't expect women to act like detectives or Liam Neeson just because they have a few drinks at a bar and go home with someone. It's unrealistic and not on them to have that extra homework. If it was really 8 men involved, well then you have at least 8 circumstances where men failed. It could be parenting, role models, holding each other accountable, etc. Take your pick.
I disagree with most of what you have said.

Alcohol can severely limit our ability of perception. If you are exceedingly drunk in any setting, there is increased risk to your well being.

I am not blaming drunk people who are harmed by others (in this case, theres of course infinity cases of drunk people acting absurdly stupid), the fault is on the people harming them, but there is of course an increased risk to your well being if you are exceedingly drunk.

This is common sense.

The youtube videos I've seen are mostly from Active Self Protection. It's true that some instances of harm are not preventable, at least in part, but many if not most absolutely are. We are not beings without the ability to think and act. There is self defense training that you can do, steps to increase your fitness, being cognizant of your surroundings (not looking down at your phone), not being in the mean side of town late at night, etc. There are things we can do, to lower the chance of harm happening to us and those near us. Putting on a winter coat when it is -50 degrees Celcius is an act of lowering the chance of harm that will befall you. You can really do so much.

Also worth mentioning, there is such a thing as women's intuition, and it is 100% real. They absolutely can be detectives in a sort of 6th sense way. Alcohol impedes this ability, as it also does to accurate perception of our surroundings.

I think it is good advice, to gently tell people, of the risks of extreme alcohol use. You can get black out drunk at a club at 2AM, in the mean side of town, but you take on increased risk to yourself when you do so.

I strongly disagree with you that there is not an increased risk in doing so. Strongly. I have not seen the statistics, but it's an easy bet for me, that black out drunk people are in danger of more bodily harm than those who are not.

It's like a common sense thought to me. It doesn't mean that the danger is always their fault (of course not, in this case, if the allegations are true), but being relatively a little more sober will increase your chances of being able to protect yourself from such harm.
 
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"At one point, Dr. Johnson pointed out that, “The term ‘whore-show’ is common among players throughout the major junior hockey system in Canada. This is a term used to describe a sexual encounter involving one female and several members of the same team. Women that take part in these events are referred to as ‘whore-show girls’ and players who organize and orchestrate them are often praised and rewarded for their accomplishments. Due to the competitiveness and jealousy between teammates, these sexual events sometimes become violent and aggressive, leaving the women feeling scared, hurt, and alone to deal with these traumatic experiences."


And some people say there is no problem with Hockey culture.
Gross. Parents please parent your kids when they are in sports.
 
I disagree with most of what you have said.

Alcohol can severely limit our ability of perception. If you are exceedingly drunk in any setting, there is increased risk to your well being.

I am not blaming drunk people who are harmed by others (in this case, theres of course infinity cases of drunk people acting absurdly stupid), the fault is on the people harming them, but there is of course an increased risk to your well being if you are exceedingly drunk.

This is common sense.

The youtube videos I've seen are mostly from Active Self Protection. It's true that some instances of harm are not preventable, at least in part, but many if not most absolutely are. We are not beings without the ability to think and act.

Also worth mentioning, there is such a thing as women's intuition, and it is 100% real. They absolutely can be detectives in a sort of 6th sense way. Alcohol impedes this ability, as it does our accurate perception of our surroundings.

I think it is good advice, to gently tell people, of the risks of extreme alcohol use. You can get black out drunk at a club at 2AM, in the mean side of town, but you take on increased risk to yourself when you do so.

I strongly disagree with you that there is not an increased risk in doing so. Strongly. I have not seen the statistics, but it's an easy bet for me, that black out drunk people are in danger of more bodily harm than those who are not.

It's like a common sense thought to me. It doesn't mean that the danger is always their fault (of course not, in this case, if the allegations are true), but being relatively a little more sober will increase your chances of being able to protect yourself from such harm.
It's both common sense and completely beside the point in this thread. Everyone who is being reasonable knows drinking reduces your decision making capacity. Being the guy who "points out" she put herself in a vulnerable position reads as victim blaming. It has no bearing on the situation, legally, morally, or otherwise.
 
I’ll tell you one thing, I don’t have any hockey player friends. There are reasons for that, I’ve never liked them


I appreciate your point of view and concede that it is your right to choose who to be friends with.

Good on you.

For Clarification and Im just curious?

1 ) Your decision not to be friends with hockey players. Was that a result of them 1 st not wanting to be your friend.

2) Is it just hockey players as a group that you don’t want to be friends with or do you dislike and are prejudice against other groups such as

a ) break dancers
B) racket ball players
C) chess players
D) fishermen
E ) any other activity.

Again I appreciate your contribution , but without this extra background information it’s hard for me to really understand the point you are trying to make.
 
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Also, and more importantly- increased risk of committing non-violent sexual misconduct, on a spectrum from simple impairment of their emotional intelligence/ ability to accurately read and appropriately react to the behaviour of their sexual partner, all the way to impaired judgement/loosening of inhibition causing them to act in ways they wouldn't normally.
Important to note the difference between alcohol “makes you dumber/evil” and “lowers your inhibitions”


The vast majority of people still don’t do horrendous stuff when they get shitfaced. In a sort of sense it makes you more “honest”


Point being the incident still points to something much deeper in these players than just “got too drunk and made a dumb decision”. Yea if they were sober they may not have had the guts to do it, but obviously they thought it was hot and I doubt they were full on shitfaced even if they were pretty drunk
 
"At one point, Dr. Johnson pointed out that, “The term ‘whore-show’ is common among players throughout the major junior hockey system in Canada. This is a term used to describe a sexual encounter involving one female and several members of the same team. Women that take part in these events are referred to as ‘whore-show girls’ and players who organize and orchestrate them are often praised and rewarded for their accomplishments. Due to the competitiveness and jealousy between teammates, these sexual events sometimes become violent and aggressive, leaving the women feeling scared, hurt, and alone to deal with these traumatic experiences."


And some people say there is no problem with Hockey culture.
Yeah…time for the culture to change
 
What the f*** is this
Precedent in Canadian junior hockey for the behavior alleged by the victim here. I imagine stuff like "whore-show" and other things that have been exposed to go on in Junior hockey are going to get a lot of air time if/when this goes to trial, and a lot of people are going to be extremely shocked and have the same exact same reaction that you're having. Probably why Hockey Canada settled the civil case faster than Sonic the Hedgehog and hoped and prayed it would all go away.
 
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