Five members from Canada’s 2018 world junior team (Hart, McLeod, Dube, Foote and Formenton) told to surrender to police, facing sexual assault charges

[Strangle]

The initial complaint was filed (and made known to Hockey Canada) the day after the alleged incident, and the civil case has already been settled. This is a police investigation that relaunched in 2022. There is no prospect of monetary outcome from the current criminal proceedings.

You said this, I asked what changed to relaunch the police investigation and you said “an incident occurred” what incident and when did this occur? And what did that incident have to do with the 2018 incident?

And if what the poster is saying below is true and the civil case was $3m paid by hockey Canada, how does that stop someone from also suing the individuals who assaulted her?

Not trying to ask this question in poor taste, genuinely curious.

Hockey Canada paid 3m or something crazy for this to go away. But it didn't go away. I thought there were NDA's generally attached to these payouts where the victim is not allowed to press charges/sue/speak of the incident again?

That doesn’t sound legal

 

[Chainshot]

It's sort of like how everyone says that they'd love being an ice cream taste tester as their full-time job.

What if it was every day, eight hours per day? What if it was not just rocky road and mint chip, but experimental stuff like dill pickle crunch or cinnamon egg?

I'm not saying that this is the dill pickle crunch of the HFBoards world.



I might be a little biased because long ago I worked IT for a county courthouse (nowhere near where I live now) and being in that environment on a daily basis, you learn a lot about why it's important to serve.

There was an ice cream shop in the town I interned in when I was in college that used to do an April Fools Day flavor. They did sauerkraut ice cream one year.

 

[Frank Drebin]

You said this, I asked what changed to relaunch the police investigation and you said “an incident occurred” what incident and when did this occur? And what did that incident have to do with the 2018 incident?



That doesn’t sound legal

It doesn't but I thought "hush money" happened all of the time?

 

[Chainshot]

Not trying to ask this question in poor taste, genuinely curious.

Hockey Canada paid 3m or something crazy for this to go away. But it didn't go away. I thought there were NDA's generally attached to these payouts where the victim is not allowed to press charges/sue/speak of the incident again?

London Police can determine if charges are being pressed. They reopened their investigation after it came under Parliament scrutiny.

 

[Rich Nixon]

You said this, I asked what changed to relaunch the police investigation and you said “an incident occurred” what incident and when did this occur? And what did that incident have to do with the 2018 incident?



That doesn’t sound legal

The incident, the 2018 one that Hockey Canada settled over and that is now producing charges, is what came to light. It wasn't public knowledge when the first police investigation was closed, then it became public knowledge and produced a lot of public outcry and government scrutiny, and then they opened a new investigation.

 

[Frank Drebin]

London Police can determine if charges are being pressed. They reopened their investigation after it came under Parliament scrutiny.

So there is really no such thing as hush money, they just paid the victim because?

 

[Chainshot]

So there is really no such thing as hush money, they just paid the victim because?

They tried to make it go away, just like they are trying to make the 2003 civil case go away.

https://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/junior-hockey-sexual-assault-2003-investigation-1.7095021

 

[oilers4life5]

So if these guys are found not guilty will they be able to go back to playing for their teams?

I feel like many in the media have already determined they are guilty. I feel they have no chance in the court of public opinion even if found not guilty.

Interesting to see how the NHL and the teams react.

 

[Nakawick]

The reporting has been that London Police Service (LPS) was notified almost immediately, invesitaged, and closed it's file. Then as a result of the lawsuit they re-opened their investigation which has now led to charges years later.

All of which I am sure is going to get litigated.

It could also be that the victim informed police that they did not wish to proceed.

 

[Frank Drebin]

They tried to make it go away, just like they are trying to make the 2003 civil case go away.

https://www.cbc.ca/sports/hockey/junior-hockey-sexual-assault-2003-investigation-1.7095021

Basically a donation for the hopes of goodwill on the part of the victim. Crazy.

 

[Strangle]

It doesn't but I thought "hush money" happened all of the time?

If that worked all the time, we wouldn’t have heard about stormy Daniel’s and trump

 

[Korpse]

Has any reporter actually seen the video though? Or are they simply putting into print what they have been told it contains?

Lawyers of the players shared the videos with The Globe and Mail but it’s also been reported on based on court fillings.

 

[MXD]

Not trying to ask this question in poor taste, genuinely curious.

Hockey Canada paid 3m or something crazy for this to go away. But it didn't go away. I thought there were NDA's generally attached to these payouts where the victim is not allowed to press charges/sue/speak of the incident again?

An NDA of that nature cannot prohibit a person from filing a complaint to the police and to make a deposition further to that complaint. That would be disgustingly illegal.

 

[Korpse]

So if these guys are found not guilty will they be able to go back to playing for their teams?

I feel like many in the media have already determined they are guilty. I feel they have no chance in the court of public opinion even if found guilty.

Interesting to see how the NHL and the teams react.

The NHL also conducted their own investigation. Wouldn’t be surprised if their is some news on that following the London Police press conference on the 5th.

 

[Chainshot]

Basically a donation for the hopes of goodwill on the part of the victim. Crazy.

Good will of the victims? Criminal charges can be levied by the police regardless of the victim's participation.

I'm tangentially interested in what HC did to coerce the London Police into dropping things. That's troubling, beyond just the terrible culture that repeatedly condones sexual assault.

 

[Rich Nixon]

The NHL also conducted their own investigation. Wouldn’t be surprised if their is some news on that following the London Police press conference on the 5th.

I believe the drumbeat from the NHL, too, was that it would not be issuing/acting on its own report prior to some formal movement in the police investigation, so we'll see if that hurdle has been cleared.

Very cool of the London Police to let the league get the All-Star weekend out of the way before the press conference. Wouldn't want some bad news casting a cloud over the family fun.

(no, I don't think that was collaborated, I'm kidding, no one cares about the ASG that much).

 

[Strangle]

The incident, the 2018 one that Hockey Canada settled over and that is now producing charges, is what came to light. It wasn't public knowledge when the first police investigation was closed, then it became public knowledge and produced a lot of public outcry and government scrutiny, and then they opened a new investigation.

If it wasn’t public knowledge, but the police investigated it, why does it being public now ledge now reopen the police investigation? Because of public outcry?

That sounds dubious to me, it almost makes the police complicit in covering it up and now it looks like they’re going after the players again?

None of that makes any sense to me.

Also, I edited my post up there to ask if the civil case against hockey Canada could stop more civil cases against the individuals themselves.

I’m not a lawyer, but I hear about people suing organizations along with individuals all the time.

It also sounds like the police department should be sued if they’re only investigating And arresting the accused because it became public and they want to cover up the bad investigation they did originally.

Are you a lawyer? How do you know that there’s no monetary incentive by suing the players now?

How does it work when a police department does one investigation, not lay charges, then without any new information does a second investigation years later?

None of the passes the sniff test to me. Something is fishy with this explaination

Good will of the victims? Criminal charges can be levied by the police regardless of the victim's participation.

I'm tangentially interested in what HC did to coerce the London Police into dropping things. That's troubling, beyond just the terrible culture that repeatedly condones sexual assault.

I agree with the last part. I just finished writing a post above questioning if the police department can be sued for that

Does this suggest there might be a corruption scandal involving hockey Canada and the London police department?

 

[Rich Nixon]

If it wasn’t public knowledge, but the police investigated it, why does it being public now ledge now reopen the police investigation? Because of public outcry?

That sounds dubious to me, it almost makes the police complicit in covering it up and now it looks like they’re going after the players again?

None of that makes any sense to me.

Also, I edited my post up there to ask if the civil case against hockey Canada could stop more civil cases against the individuals themselves.

I’m not a lawyer, but I hear about people suing organizations along with individuals all the time.

It also sounds like the police department should be sued if they’re only investigating And arresting the accused because it became public and they want to cover up the bad investigation they did originally.

Are you a lawyer? How do you know that there’s no monetary incentive by suing the players now?

How does it work when a police department does one investigation, not lay charges, then without any new information does a second investigation years later?

None of the passes the sniff test to me. Something is fishy with this explaination

I mean, it's a pretty simple scenario that unfortunately happens. Maybe it makes the police complicit, and maybe a guy had a buddy who had a buddy. But more likely it makes them look lazy or under-resourced. It's not an easy case to investigate or close, and in reality police forces are often forced to deprioritize some matters in favor of others where they can prevent and prosecute more frequently and easily. They apparently failed to interview a number of key witnesses in their initial investigation, which makes it seem like a rather cursory matter that they chose not to pursue.

The way they are held accountable for that is often through public outrage and government pressure, which only came when it was divulged that Hockey Canada had been paying people off through a sexual assault slush fund.

This is not uncommon in abuse cases, either. Often, you'll find serial abusers (like Weinstein or Cosby) have indeed been accused and lightly investigated/cleared in the past, and it takes public pressure to conduct a serious investigation that eventually produces a conviction.

 

[Strangle]

I mean, it's a pretty simple scenario that unfortunately happens. Maybe it makes the police complicit, or more likely it makes them lazy. They apparently failed to interview a number of key witnesses in their initial investigation, which makes it seem like a rather cursory matter that they chose not to pursue. It's not an easy case to investigate or close, and in reality police forces are often forced to deprioritize some matters in favor of others where they can prevent and prosecute more frequently and easily.

The way they are held accountable for that is often through public outrage and government pressure, which only came when it was divulged that Hockey Canada had been paying people off through a sexual assault slush fund.

This is not uncommon in abuse cases, either. Often, you'll find serial abusers (like Weinstein or Cosby) have indeed been accused and lightly investigated/cleared in the past, and it takes public pressure to conduct a serious investigation that eventually produces a conviction.

Do you think it’s incompetence by the police departments investigating? Or do you think they maybe got paid some money to look the other way?

I’d say laziness falls under incompetence too

 

[GeoRox89]

Does anyone have a source for how much EM actually settled for? I was under the impression the actual settlement amount was never released and that all we knew was she had filed for 3.55m in damages in the civil suit.

The articles I can find do say they had paid out 8.9 million between 1989 and 2022 and that 6.8 million of that was for cases involving Graham James. Seems unlikely they settled EM’s claim for the full amount she was initially seeking. I know quite a few people who’ve had large personal injury claims and they all ended up settling for around 1/4 of the initial ask

 

[Rich Nixon]

Do you think it’s incompetence by the police departments investigating? Or do you think they maybe got paid some money to look the other way?

I’d say laziness falls under incompetence too

I can't speculate on that, there's a million reasons why it could have gone that way. Just happens like that sometimes—police departments aren't perfect and need to be held accountable, like any other institutions in democratic societies. We've seen podcasts get murder cases reopened.

 

[57special]

Police generally don’t have enough evidence to charge innocent people. In fact, they usually don’t have enough evidence to charge guilty people as well.

I’m sure the lawyers and players will throw money at her and offer her a bunch of money to drop the charges because their lawyers will tell her it’s in her best interest to keep herself anonymous and have it go away as fast as possible.

Where the hell have you been?

so much with your post that is flat out wrong

 

[Edgelord]

I believe the drumbeat from the NHL, too, was that it would not be issuing/acting on its own report prior to some formal movement in the police investigation, so we'll see if that hurdle has been cleared.

Very cool of the London Police to let the league get the All-Star weekend out of the way before the press conference. Wouldn't want some bad news casting a cloud over the family fun.

(no, I don't think that was collaborated, I'm kidding, no one cares about the ASG that much).

I could see the NHL doing something to save face and help hockey Canada's image
something like having 2023 WJC team Canada out to do some drills, but being the NHL it would go horribly wrong

live on tv, the announcer OMG what are they doing to Gritty!!!!!
cuts to cell phone with a red eyed gritty
everything was consensual right?!?
............
see a putter come in frame and smack gritty upside the head
Everything was consensual right!!?

yup knowing the NHL and PR issues, this is prob how it would play out lol

 

[Strangle]

Does anyone have a source for how much EM actually settled for? I was under the impression the actual settlement amount was never released and that all we knew was she had filed for 3.55m in damages in the civil suit.

The articles I can find do say they had paid out 8.9 million between 1989 and 2022 and that 6.8 million of that was for cases involving Graham James. Seems unlikely they settled EM’s claim for the full amount she was initially seeking. I know quite a few people who’ve had large personal injury claims and they all ended up settling for around 1/4 of the initial ask

If you sued the organization, you can still sue the individuals separately, can’t you?

 

[Danarqhy]

"At one point, Dr. Johnson pointed out that, “The term ‘whore-show’ is common among players throughout the major junior hockey system in Canada. This is a term used to describe a sexual encounter involving one female and several members of the same team. Women that take part in these events are referred to as ‘whore-show girls’ and players who organize and orchestrate them are often praised and rewarded for their accomplishments. Due to the competitiveness and jealousy between teammates, these sexual events sometimes become violent and aggressive, leaving the women feeling scared, hurt, and alone to deal with these traumatic experiences."

https://thehockeynews.com/news/shocking-allegations-in-chl-lawsuit-detail-sexual-abuse-and-a-deviant-culture

And some people say there is no problem with Hockey culture.