OT: Fitness and Nutrition XII

[snakeye]

Don't think it should feel like a casual workout though. You need to put in the effort. The point of staying around a 70-80% range is that you can do it more often, and if you want to progress, you will have to augment volume/weight.

Training to failure is more of an old school approach, but very much like lighter training, it needs to be designed properly. Think of the conjugate system who'll push max strength 2x/week but the other two days are light-dynamic work days.
What Firas is saying has been around for a while though, Pavel Tsatsouline has been saying it for over two decades, pretty sure Firas even refers to him during the full Rogan episode.

Yeah I guess casual is not the right word. For me a good amount of effort is the max amount that can I put into doing a 5x5 exercise while trying to keep my last rep as close to what the first one looked like in terms of speed or explosiveness.

Exercise til failure works as well, but it has its place. It's doable but requires an extreme amount of will power and discipline if done constantly, which is something most people don't have.

 

[waffledave]

Yeah I guess casual is not the right word. For me a good amount of effort is the max amount that can I put into doing a 5x5 exercise while trying to keep my last rep as close to what the first one looked like in terms of speed or explosiveness.

Exercise til failure works as well, but it has its place. It's doable but requires an extreme amount of will power and discipline if done constantly, which is something most people don't have.

In 5x5 it doesn't count as a successful lift if your last rep isn't as good as your first. So you shouldn't add more weight if you barely were able to do the last rep. I know what you mean.

 

[snakeye]

In 5x5 it doesn't count as a successful lift if your last rep isn't as good as your first. So you shouldn't add more weight if you barely were able to do the last rep. I know what you mean.

Yeah I never really looked into 5x5 that much, but that sounds about right to me. I feel like it should be max power output, which kinda stops as soon as you start grinding out the reps. I've had great progress doing 5x5 with lower weights, notably in my overhead press, alternating between strict and push press, putting the emphasis on explosiveness. Lately I've been doing heavier 3x5, which yielded similar results.

 

[Andrei79]

Anyone else ever got turf toe ? I've been sidelined for three weeks now. It's a grade 2, so nothing serious but it was really uncomfortable. Sucks because I was on a good run training wise.

What's really changed though is my diet in the past year. I've developed a taste for plant based meals and can't get enough of it. It's a game changer, botb in terms of how satisfying it is and how good it feels physically.

 

[BehindTheTimes]

Its not old school, theres plenty of new studies that show that failure still is king. RP and Mike Israetel have a lot of info on this

The notion that a workout should feel casual is... I dont know? I guess its fine for general health.

If you’re looking to improve strength doing a 5 x 5 program there is nothing casual feeling about it. Imo it is not even sustainable beyond 3-4 months.

It wasn’t for me. I did strong lifts and starting strength and starting strength 3 x 5 was a far superior program imo. Felt like I could progress Indefinitely on that program. I started barely able to squat 135, by the time I switched programs I was doing 3 x 5 335 and this was only after a couple months. Incredible imo.

Right now I’ve stuck with push/pull/legs twice a week and man I was feeling bagged a couple weeks ago, I stepped up my calories a bit and I’ve never felt better. Im still running like a boss too.

I had stopped deadlifting entirely for a bit as I felt it wasn’t necessarily beneficial to my goals, but I think that was a huge mistake. I’ve started back deadlifting and it’s my best choice.

Question, do my most here do deadlifts on pull day or leg day if they were doing this split? I’ve thrown it in on pull day because I don’t want to squat same day, but now it means I’m either squatting or deadlifting 4 out of 6 workouts per week. Feel like i’ll run out of steam eventually, but I should be ok for a bit.

 

[Mrb1p]

If you’re looking to improve strength doing a 5 x 5 program there is nothing casual feeling about it. Imo it is not even sustainable beyond 3-4 months.

It wasn’t for me. I did strong lifts and starting strength and starting strength 3 x 5 was a far superior program imo. Felt like I could progress Indefinitely on that program. I started barely able to squat 135, by the time I switched programs I was doing 3 x 5 335 and this was only after a couple months. Incredible imo.

Right now I’ve stuck with push/pull/legs twice a week and man I was feeling bagged a couple weeks ago, I stepped up my calories a bit and I’ve never felt better. Im still running like a boss too.

I had stopped deadlifting entirely for a bit as I felt it wasn’t necessarily beneficial to my goals, but I think that was a huge mistake. I’ve started back deadlifting and it’s my best choice.

Question, do my most here do deadlifts on pull day or leg day if they were doing this split? I’ve thrown it in on pull day because I don’t want to squat same day, but now it means I’m either squatting or deadlifting 4 out of 6 workouts per week. Feel like i’ll run out of steam eventually, but I should be ok for a bit.

If I deadlift, its in my strength/peak mesocycle and it will be programmed as a deadlift day/squat day and bench day. If I am in an hypertrophy meso, I do not do conventional deadlifts but usually have some hip hinge movement as my first leg day move. I dont think conventional deadlifts are optimal for hypertrophy, theres so many other moves you could ve doing that work muscles more efficiently.

 

[BehindTheTimes]

If I deadlift, its in my strength/peak mesocycle and it will be programmed as a deadlift day/squat day and bench day. If I am in an hypertrophy meso, I do not do conventional deadlifts but usually have some hip hinge movement as my first leg day move. I dont think conventional deadlifts are optimal for hypertrophy, theres so many other moves you could ve doing that work muscles more efficiently.

Hmm interesting. I actually thought deadlifts was one of the best hypertrophy lifts. I’m surprised to hear you say that. You’re probably right and I’m probably wrong haha. I still am going to do them because I think they keep my lower back strong and less vulnerable to injury.

 

[Mrb1p]

Hmm interesting. I actually thought deadlifts was one of the best hypertrophy lifts. I’m surprised to hear you say that. You’re probably right and I’m probably wrong haha. I still am going to do them because I think they keep my lower back strong and less vulnerable to injury.

In a vacuum theyre a good muscle builder. When compared to say... snatch grip RDLs? They dont offer anything close to the same stimulus to hammies. Compared to bent overs? They dont offer nearly the same stimulus to the lats.

And theyre super taxing on the system.

That is why I make the mesocycle distinctions.

My week goes as follows

Hip hinge move
Quad dominant compound
Unilateral work myorep into straight myorep quad dominant isolation

For back it would be

Myoreps pullups (With weight)
Into no weight pullup myorep
Seal row/bent bar bent overs high reps
Lat isolation if Im still feeling it

 

[BehindTheTimes]

In a vacuum theyre a good muscle builder. When compared to say... snatch grip RDLs? They dont offer anything close to the same stimulus to hammies. Compared to bent overs? They dont offer nearly the same stimulus to the lats.

And theyre super taxing on the system.

That is why I make the mesocycle distinctions.

My week goes as follows

Hip hinge move
Quad dominant compound
Unilateral work myorep into straight myorep quad dominant isolation

For back it would be

Myoreps pullups (With weight)
Into no weight pullup myorep
Seal row/bent bar bent overs high reps
Lat isolation if Im still feeling it

Nice, I just got back from a 10km run
With 100m of elevation. I leave my
house and at about 2.5-3km in the climb begins and the hill lasts a good 2.5km. I think at about 5.5-6km I’m near the peak of it. I thought I may struggle today a bit, my legs were still
Feeling leg day from a couple days ago, but it went surprisingly well.

Today was supposed to be my rest day, but I’ve turned into a cardio only day. Leg day again tomorrow. Should be interesting.

Will likely do a slow and steady 5k this evening.

 

[Mrb1p]

Nice, I just got back from a 10km run
With 100m of elevation. I leave my
house and at about 2.5-3km in the climb begins and the hill lasts a good 2.5km. I think at about 5.5-6km I’m near the peak of it. I thought I may struggle today a bit, my legs were still
Feeling leg day from a couple days ago, but it went surprisingly well.

Today was supposed to be my rest day, but I’ve turned into a cardio only day. Leg day again tomorrow. Should be interesting.

Will likely do a slow and steady 5k this evening.

Got me grasping for air just reading this mate

 

[BehindTheTimes]

Got me grasping for air just reading this mate

My favourite thing to do on a Saturday morning now. I was up at 430am, a couple cups of black coffee to get me primed. It’s staying darker long in the morning now it seems. I used to leave the house between 5-530, but I I had to wait until after 6. I don’t like running in the dark out my way. Lots of critters out and about and it just creeps me out. I like to be able to see wtf is ahead of me.

 

[Kriss E]

Hmm interesting. I actually thought deadlifts was one of the best hypertrophy lifts. I’m surprised to hear you say that. You’re probably right and I’m probably wrong haha. I still am going to do them because I think they keep my lower back strong and less vulnerable to injury.

There is a lot of muscle recruitement during deadlifts, so I assume that is your train of thought here.
The downfall is hypertrophy=high reps, and because deadlifts are such a tiring compound exercise, you will probably get more bang for your buck focusing on other exercises (that are likely safer) than trying to push 10-12-15 reps.

I'm like @Mrb1p , I'll include them for strengths. Hypertrophy, I'll do good mornings, kettle bell swings, back extensions, reverse hypers...

Another note...definitely back into my training groove. One more week of summer debauchery and then it's back to serious diet mode. Weighing in at 230lbs yesterday, I want to bring this down to 205lbs, possibly 195 after that.

 

[Mrb1p]

There is a lot of muscle recruitement during deadlifts, so I assume that is your train of thought here.
The downfall is hypertrophy=high reps, and because deadlifts are such a tiring compound exercise, you will probably get more bang for your buck focusing on other exercises (that are likely safer) than trying to push 10-12-15 reps.

I'm like @Mrb1p , I'll include them for strengths. Hypertrophy, I'll do good mornings, kettle bell swings, back extensions, reverse hypers...

Another note...definitely back into my training groove. One more week of summer debauchery and then it's back to serious diet mode. Weighing in at 230lbs yesterday, I want to bring this down to 205lbs, possibly 195 after that.

Damn were both the same weight right now... Having a GF is not kind to my gains. My insulin sensitivity is insane right now

 

[Kriss E]

Damn were both the same weight right now... Having a GF is not kind to my gains. My insulin sensitivity is insane right now

Ya I'm not being too bad lately...I mean I say this but I finished three big bag of chips this week..gnocchi gratin...couple grilled cheese sandwiches...lasagna..some manouches...few chocolate bars...ice cream...PB toast..fries..two subs..falafels..LoL

Ya no wonder I'm at 230..Sure has been fun, but looking forward to cutting back though. I think I've added a decent amount of muscle so I can be pretty shredded at 205.

 

[Mrb1p]

Ya I'm not being too bad lately...I mean I say this but I finished three big bag of chips this week..gnocchi gratin...couple grilled cheese sandwiches...lasagna..some manouches...few chocolate bars...ice cream...PB toast..fries..two subs..falafels..LoL

Ya no wonder I'm at 230..Sure has been fun, but looking forward to cutting back though. I think I've added a decent amount of muscle so I can be pretty shredded at 205.

Eh, Im watching USA vs Sweden withb3 Cannolis sitting on my power belly right now. The bulk is in, lmao.

 

[snakeye]

In a vacuum theyre a good muscle builder. When compared to say... snatch grip RDLs? They dont offer anything close to the same stimulus to hammies. Compared to bent overs? They dont offer nearly the same stimulus to the lats.

And theyre super taxing on the system.

That is why I make the mesocycle distinctions.

My week goes as follows

Hip hinge move
Quad dominant compound
Unilateral work myorep into straight myorep quad dominant isolation

For back it would be

Myoreps pullups (With weight)
Into no weight pullup myorep
Seal row/bent bar bent overs high reps
Lat isolation if Im still feeling it

Always used to do conventional DL, but was sold on RDLs the day I tried them for the first time. Couldn't bend down for two weeks they hit the hammies hard. They're actually kinda technical and I hardly ever see anyone doing them right (which is no surprise considering instructions online are often bs), but if you do, they're a killer exercise for the posterior chain. Hell, even done wrong they're probably great, just a little more risky and less effective.

 

[Lshap]

I hate rest and recovery.

About three weeks ago I developed my very first hip-flexor issue – a typical injury for runners. Waited a week, started to feel a bit better, and went back to running. Spoiler Alert: Stupid decision. Three days later I was back where I started with more pain. Trying to be smart this time and give it a full two/three weeks... or whatever time is necessary.

Stopping a healthy routine feels awful, but I have to keep reminding myself it's better to be out for a month than to develop permanent problems. I plan to be one of those old guys you see running into his 80s.

 

[LeHab]

I hate rest and recovery.

About three weeks ago I developed my very first hip-flexor issue – a typical injury for runners. Waited a week, started to feel a bit better, and went back to running. Spoiler Alert: Stupid decision. Three days later I was back where I started with more pain. Trying to be smart this time and give it a full two/three weeks... or whatever time is necessary.

Stopping a healthy routine feels awful, but I have to keep reminding myself it's better to be out for a month than to develop permanent problems. I plan to be one of those old guys you see running into his 80s.

Story of my running life, got better at listening to my body but still waay too impatient. Found Cycling to be a great way to cross train while recovering. Speaking of which just had a slip on my bike yesterday and bruised (hopefully not broken) a knee pretty good. Looks like there will be no cycling or running for a few days at least.

 

[Kriss E]

I hate rest and recovery.

About three weeks ago I developed my very first hip-flexor issue – a typical injury for runners. Waited a week, started to feel a bit better, and went back to running. Spoiler Alert: Stupid decision. Three days later I was back where I started with more pain. Trying to be smart this time and give it a full two/three weeks... or whatever time is necessary.

Stopping a healthy routine feels awful, but I have to keep reminding myself it's better to be out for a month than to develop permanent problems. I plan to be one of those old guys you see running into his 80s.

That's what COVID did to many and why people were up in arms. Taking away hobbies of people, especially ones that are actually helping your health, is very difficult.

Injuries are a major pain in the ass. The problem is very little is offered to people that suffer those little-nagging injuries. Because our health system sucks, you can't really go see anybody who's going to help without paying.
You'll have to go see a physio, or osteo, or chiro, or whichever specialist who will ask you for an initial fee. Then he's going to prescribe a bunch of boring exercises you likely won't ever finish doing, and you're going to have to go in 3-4+ times at least...dishing out around 100$ every time.
So unless you have insurances...people just wait this out, and then have to start all over again.

Age also makes recovering twice longer...

I'd say stay off the run..go to the gym...take some TRT..you'll get jacked and the wife will be very happy.
Kriss, Life Coach.

 

[danyhabsfan]

I hate rest and recovery.

About three weeks ago I developed my very first hip-flexor issue – a typical injury for runners. Waited a week, started to feel a bit better, and went back to running. Spoiler Alert: Stupid decision. Three days later I was back where I started with more pain. Trying to be smart this time and give it a full two/three weeks... or whatever time is necessary.

Stopping a healthy routine feels awful, but I have to keep reminding myself it's better to be out for a month than to develop permanent problems. I plan to be one of those old guys you see running into his 80s.

Ingrown toenail and toe infection keep me off from july 31st to august 8th. Still not 100% perfect thought.

I think I exagerated a bit in july with 160 km. Which is a lot for me.

 

[Mrb1p]

That's what COVID did to many and why people were up in arms. Taking away hobbies of people, especially ones that are actually helping your health, is very difficult.

Injuries are a major pain in the ass. The problem is very little is offered to people that suffer those little-nagging injuries. Because our health system sucks, you can't really go see anybody who's going to help without paying.
You'll have to go see a physio, or osteo, or chiro, or whichever specialist who will ask you for an initial fee. Then he's going to prescribe a bunch of boring exercises you likely won't ever finish doing, and you're going to have to go in 3-4+ times at least...dishing out around 100$ every time.
So unless you have insurances...people just wait this out, and then have to start all over again.

Age also makes recovering twice longer...

I'd say stay off the run..go to the gym...take some TRT..you'll get jacked and the wife will be very happy.
Kriss, Life Coach.

I really need to get on TRT. Ill be turning 30 in three months.

Finally time.

 

[Lshap]

That's what COVID did to many and why people were up in arms. Taking away hobbies of people, especially ones that are actually helping your health, is very difficult.

Injuries are a major pain in the ass. The problem is very little is offered to people that suffer those little-nagging injuries. Because our health system sucks, you can't really go see anybody who's going to help without paying.
You'll have to go see a physio, or osteo, or chiro, or whichever specialist who will ask you for an initial fee. Then he's going to prescribe a bunch of boring exercises you likely won't ever finish doing, and you're going to have to go in 3-4+ times at least...dishing out around 100$ every time.
So unless you have insurances...people just wait this out, and then have to start all over again.

Age also makes recovering twice longer...

I'd say stay off the run..go to the gym...take some TRT..you'll get jacked and the wife will be very happy.
Kriss, Life Coach.

First thought: "What the hell is 'TRT'?"

Okay, a quick Google search later... don't think I'll go that route. Medical orgs (Mayo clinic, Harvard) aren't convinced the benefits outweigh the risks for healthy adults. The girlfriend will have to deal with the fit-but-not-jacked me.

I'm looking up exercises/stretches online. I've never had a chronic problem in my life, so I'm still hopeful this goes away in another couple of weeks.

 

[BehindTheTimes]

That's what COVID did to many and why people were up in arms. Taking away hobbies of people, especially ones that are actually helping your health, is very difficult.

Injuries are a major pain in the ass. The problem is very little is offered to people that suffer those little-nagging injuries. Because our health system sucks, you can't really go see anybody who's going to help without paying.
You'll have to go see a physio, or osteo, or chiro, or whichever specialist who will ask you for an initial fee. Then he's going to prescribe a bunch of boring exercises you likely won't ever finish doing, and you're going to have to go in 3-4+ times at least...dishing out around 100$ every time.
So unless you have insurances...people just wait this out, and then have to start all over again.

Age also makes recovering twice longer...

I'd say stay off the run..go to the gym...take some TRT..you'll get jacked and the wife will be very happy.
Kriss, Life Coach.

Been debating cycling something myself, but I don’t have enough knowledge in this area to cause more benefit than harm. I’m not against it though. I wish I knew how to do it and safely.

 

[Mrb1p]

Been debating cycling something myself, but I don’t have enough knowledge in this area to cause more benefit than harm. I’m not against it though. I wish I knew how to do it and safely.

If you're old enough you can probably ask your doctor for TRT

 

[BehindTheTimes]

If you're old enough you can probably ask your doctor for TRT

43, I’m definitely in the age group.