We probably won't agree here, it was just a pointless fight, Keefe told him so and Foligno ultimately made the decision because Keefe never said "don't", he just basically asked "why?"
First look at the All or Nothing Amazon Prime show
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We probably won't agree here, it was just a pointless fight, Keefe told him so and Foligno ultimately made the decision because Keefe never said "don't", he just basically asked "why?"
I think this is a huge reason why the players wil have a bit more of a buy in this year TBH. Keefe was all over their play all year long. And rightfully so. We won far too many 1 goal games. There were so many games where our heartrates should have never gone above resting level, but because they refused to do simple things with consistency they kept games close. It bit them in the end. You cannot play 45 mins in the playoffs and expect to win. The margins are way too tight.
It would be massively narcissistic of Keefe to enforce the players to watch the series as a way of proving himself right in his pursuit for perfection last year. But I really do hope our players watch the series, and reflect on what he was trying to accomplish in those moments, and the consequences of not buying in.
Like I said earlier. I really think this series will be eye opening for alot of our players/coaches/staff. I don't know how anyone could watch a docu-series on their life and not look at ways to change the way they treat people and do things.
Except if you're soupy. Don't ever change soupy
Beyonder91
RASMUS
Pens haven't won a series the last 3 years. They ran into the same problem we did - a grittier more defensive focused team got the better of them despite them clearly being the more talented team.
I really think Paul MacLean in that last meeting summed up the issue with the Leafs. I expected coming away with a way different opinion on this team based on how some of you were talking, it is really interesting to see how people have been interpreting this series to fit their own narrative that they have made up.
robertmac43
Forever 43!
- Mar 31, 2015
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Soupy is the greatest human in the NHL - that is one of the main takeaways of this show.
No doubt. Foligno has dropped the gloves with scarier guys than Lowry. Coaching needs to favor anything that drives more emotion into this team, not discourage it.
Nylanderthal
Registered User
- Jun 9, 2010
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They were winning the game and controlling the pace of play, why create a sideshow that provides the opportunity for the other side to gain momentum. it was selfish on Nicks part, and that was pretty clearly conveyed to him when Sheldon said “if you wanna do it for your own entertainment fine, but I don’t need that right now”
Anyone who’s been in a boss-subordinate situation…. If your boss says something along the lines of “your own entertainment” it means they don’t see it contributing to the end goal.
Throw More Waffles
Unprecedented Dramatic Overpayments
- Oct 9, 2015
- 12,952
- 9,910
Wouldn't the specific reason for having half your cap on 4 ridiculously talented forwards be for them to overcome things like good goaltending and defense? Otherwise, what's the point?
Based on your argument, we should trade all those expensive forwards and offer a league maximum contract to a clutch goaltender. Because, as you said, "Clutch goaltending is clutch goaltending".
Notsince67
Papi and the Lamplighters
- Apr 27, 2018
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The leafs lost in the end. They lacked aggressiveness. This game is as much about testosterone as it does brains and probably more so in the playoffs. They were winning the game as you said. There was little to lose except show the younger players how to keep the pedal to the metal
Has he? I think Lowry gets underrated as a fighter because it isn't his primary job, but he is a massive dude and does well when he drops them.
But regardless, what is the point of giving momentum to another team? He told him to go have fun if he wants to, but he doesn't think it helps the team.
CabanaBoy5
Registered User
Ya think? It's one of the things that bothers me about the kid. But I was swayed a bit by watching the series. Behind the childishness, sense of entitlement, immaturity...he really does care. It was kinda sad to see him with his head bowed in the locker room after Game 7. Just my feeling that he was sincere.
I think if you're a Leaf fan, this series was really good about showing us some of the character of management and players. New found respect for Keefe and Dubas as well. Dubas genuinely cares about his players, their family life, and the team.
Yea, I generally find Dangle entertaining enough, but they are completely gushing over this series far beyond it's actual merits.
Then what's the point of having talents like AM or Marner or JT if all it takes is someone like Danault to shut them down. If guys that are suppose to provide the offence but couldn't, it is a problem.
CabanaBoy5
Registered User
I'd say Dubas is a close second. When he ran down those steps, his concern was not only for the player, but for his family.
Ya I think this series was good for everyone TBH. I think we as a fanbase can learn that these players are human at the end of the day. Mitch and Auston have demons they need to overcome when it comes to the playoffs. They are easily 2 of the top 10 players in the world. I can't imagine how frustrating it must be to know that, but have the results not match it.
It's not for a lack of effort. They need to believe in themselves in those moments. I am confident it will come. I just hope it happens for them in Toronto
Thats life, isn't it.
Some think Jumbo was good b/c he relaxes the room, some think he is too big of a joker without vet leadership.
Or how Nurse called a timeout in Game 5 at the end of the game bc he wants to rest his Kawhi while Kawhi was on fire.....
Results is the only way to justify the actions. If Leafs won the Cup, most people will agree Jumbo's presence was great bc they won. Fans might even think the team doesn't need JT if he remained out and Leafs win the Cup without him.
Guys just need to look at what worked and what didn't and learn from them and improve. In playoffs, they need to stop thinking this is enough but rather it is never enough, always need to do more. Once they have that mentality, results will come.
What this series reminded me and I honestly forgot was that Sens game. That game was pretty much the Habs series in a nutshell. Leafs got a great lead and blew it, the guys thought it was enough. Nomatter how talented a team, if they think it is enough and mentally turned off, thats dangerous. My beloved Milan had the worst loss in CL finals against Liverpool about 15 years ago. Years later, its been leaked that the players were celebrating and drinking during the half time bc they were up 3-0 and completely dominated Liverpool. And that Milan team was not a young team, they were a vet team that won the Finals two season ago plus most players beside Kaka were playing top level for close to 10 years and led by the arguably the greatest Dman of all time- Maldini. Two years later the same team won the Finals against Liverpool. The players learnt their lessons.
The CyNick
Freedom of Speech!
- Sep 17, 2009
- 11,364
- 2,033
So how many years do you change nothing and expect a different result? And only one? Two minimum should go. And the coach, and the GM, and the President.
Stephen
Moderator
- Feb 28, 2002
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I think Dubas shows pretty well in the series and one of the things I appreciate about him is he and Keefe are thinking about this the way the frustrated fan on here might. He’s not quite the poster child of any specific thought process but a genuine hockey lifer trying to ice the best team and not really the pro or anti Dubas caricature we sometimes assume he is on here.
Yup this is exactly how I see it as well.
I think the scene that rubbed myself the wrong way, and others on here was the leadership meeting where he appeared to be dismissive to any issues. Honestly, I think that was likely the editing that did him dirty personally. It was not a good look for him, one that I am sure Jumbo would admit was not the right way to handle it. But that perspective was also very much needed as part of the leadership meeting. That by and large was the feeling of the room. Jumbo was vocalizing what was being said in the room. IMO, that is necessary as well. That being said, he needs to be able to address that sentiment all while coming to a compromise on how to move forward. Something that was not made overly clear in the documentary, but I am almost guaranteed happened.
Everything I've ever read on Jumbo is that he holds his team mates accountable. I'm sure he was not brushing off Keefe's signs of complacency entirely. He was likely just saying, coach you can get your point across without raining on the parade. Which is entirely valid.
I think people forget that this is their workplace. If you worked in a company that was achieving highest quarterly results ever, and your boss came in cracking the whip because it could be better, the workers would have every reason to be choked. However if that boss came in with a more up beat approach, and wanted to make sure that the success is sustained by cleaning up the little mistakes in a more positive up beat way, there is likely a better response. I think that's kind of where Jumbo was coming from IMO. I am going to give him the benefit of the doubt.
Ultimately, Sheldon was not wrong for trying to be better in those moments where things seemingly looked perfect. We were far from perfect in those times. However, When we were close to perfect, say for example in that EDM series where they scored 1-2 goals all series, he was quick to tell them how that was how they needed to play. I do think the players will respond to his words a bit more this year. It clearly came from the right place. Maybe Sheldon will ease up a bit more now as well, knowing it fell on deaf ears for some of the players. It's all about finding the balance on when to be hard and when not to be. I think Sheldon is figuring that out as well
TheGreatOne11
Registered User
Yes, I truly hope that last scene with Marner and Matthews was real and the were the last two in the room still feeling the loss and not orchestrated by the Leafs because we have made them the two corner stones. (Tavares was injured)
Considering Tavares off the roster (as anyone fair would do and consider it one of the big reasons things didnt go well) The Leafs big 3 didnt perform nearly as bad as is being made out and better than any other teams stars did against the Habs. The big problem I see is the constant mentioning of "cap" and "money" meaning there is resentment from months of arguing over cap hits thats biasing people pretty hard now.
Considering Campbell started the series so well and played the season so well, we had to keep riding him, especially considering we didnt exactly have a good 2nd keeper on the bench there that basically checked out on the team after playing like crap. (It worked though, the Hurricanes got him and can add him to the list of failed goalkeepers over there)
Reload, Regroup and see if we can go on a run again with one of the best teams in the league. 5 series in a row having the 2nd best goaltending has been a real pain in the butt to overcome but maybe we'll actually get a guy not going on a Cinderella run this year (not to mention one of our goalies getting hot? We did have one of the best Ds in the playoffs this year) to at least give us one advantage.....or stay healthy, that would be a start too.
