First look at the All or Nothing Amazon Prime show

[CDN24]

Dubas: "Are you asking me how you should handle this?"

FFS, a real NHL coach wouldn't need advice on handling his team from a guy that's never played or coached.

That reminded me of when John Paddock took over for Murray in Ottawa and Ray Emery was becoming a problem (late for practice and missed team flight) Reporter asks Paddock if there will be any consequences for Emery and he responds I have to check with Bryan Murray (GM). You are the coach FFS.

After watching this a few things stick out and probably the most impt is that I don't think Keefe is the coach to lead this team. It may work in Jr where players turn over every 2 or 3 years but he is going to lose that room quick. A good coach gets the best out of his players, he identifies how to motivate them some guys need to be yelled at, some need to be cajoled, some need you to build their confidence etc. Keefe seems to be a one trick pony yell and single guys out. He might need a look in the mirror. He was badly outcoached in the play offs. Seems to look for the individual instances that cause a loss without considering if those individual instances are symptoms of something deeper.

Dubas is a nice guy- maybe too nice. He cares for his players people.
This team needs to learn how to win, not sure Jumbo Joe was the right guy to teach them that- too laid back, not intense enough. They needed a Corey Perry last year.

 

[CabanaBoy5]

But he's a plain talking guy from Saskatchewan so he's not a good coach.

He was a good coach who just happened to be a pompous ass who used draconian measures to achieve his goals. Good riddance.

As for the series, I thoroughly enjoyed the first and last episode. We got to see how much the players realized that what they thought was effort was not enough. They genuinely were dejected, particularly Marner and Matthews. It was also sad to see how that first goal in game 7 affected Campbell, visibly in tears at games end.

All we can hope is that they have learned from the experience and come out this season having learned that what they thought was enough in preparation was not. If they haven't learned, this core is doomed for another season of disappointment. I'm banking on them having learned what it takes.

 

[CabanaBoy5]

Did not say anything about Keefe but it seems that he sees some of the flaws that need to be corrected. Hopefully he leans on them and gets them playing more playoff style hockey before the start of the playoffs.

That's one of the things I found heartening in the show...Keefe saw the flaws that we on this board saw the last few years. Now, does he have the ability to correct them.

 

[Apex Predator]

Did not say anything about Keefe but it seems that he sees some of the flaws that need to be corrected. Hopefully he leans on them and gets them playing more playoff style hockey before the start of the playoffs.

sorry misread your post that you meant Keefe but you meant Dubas.

 

[The CyNick]

He was a good coach who just happened to be a pompous ass who used draconian measures to achieve his goals. Good riddance.

As for the series, I thoroughly enjoyed the first and last episode. We got to see how much the players realized that what they thought was effort was not enough. They genuinely were dejected, particularly Marner and Matthews. It was also sad to see how that first goal in game 7 affected Campbell, visibly in tears at games end.

All we can hope is that they have learned from the experience and come out this season having learned that what they thought was enough in preparation was not. If they haven't learned, this core is doomed for another season of disappointment. I'm banking on them having learned what it takes.

You must game missed the post mortem on the Columbus series. The players and management said THE EXACT SAME THING. There were articles written with quotes from Dubas about how key players on the team needed to show they wanted the puck. And they would work on that for the 20-21 campaign. It's all talk from these guys. They literally just don't have the compete in them to find another gear. And management enables their thought process by talking about how they prefer to look at the teams play over the first 60 games vs the last 3. This shows a fundamental lack of understanding of how leagues with playoffs work. You need players who elevate their game at critical moments, not December heroes. As for tears, how about just making a save instead of crying about it? How about not putting a goalie in a position he's not mentally ready for?

 

[The CyNick]

That's one of the things I found heartening in the show...Keefe saw the flaws that we on this board saw the last few years. Now, does he have the ability to correct them.

Considering he made zero changes to the PP while it was going off the rails, I would be cynical about that happening.

 

[Stephen]

I thought Joe Thornton came across poorly as this jokey guy in the leadership meeting. You can kind of understand why the Bruins may have decided they needed to move him to accomplish their big culture reset way back when.

 

[The CyNick]

I thought Joe Thornton came across poorly as this jokey guy in the leadership meeting. You can kind of understand why the Bruins may have decided they needed to move him to accomplish their big culture reset way back when.

Some guys don't have a winners mentality.

 

[notbias]

Dubas: "Are you asking me how you should handle this?"

FFS, a real NHL coach wouldn't need advice on handling his team from a guy that's never played or coached.

Ya, a real NHL coach like Babcock instead has had to apologize to his star rookie for how he handled a situation, really wish he asked Dubas how to handle that one.

 

[egd27]

Ya, a real NHL coach like Babcock instead has had to apologize to his star rookie for how he handled a situation, really wish he asked Dubas how to handle that one.

Right, he made mistake handling a situation and had to (and did) apologize for it. Isn't that what someone is supposed to do?

Not sure what your point is other than throwing out another "what about him" that has little or no relevance to the topic at hand.

 

[egd27]

I thought Joe Thornton came across poorly as this jokey guy in the leadership meeting. You can kind of understand why the Bruins may have decided they needed to move him to accomplish their big culture reset way back when.

Was Matthews absent from the "team leadership" meeting or did I just not see him?

 

[notbias]

Right, he made mistake handling a situation and had to (and did) apologize for it. Isn't that what someone is supposed to do?

Not sure what your point is other than throwing out another "what about him" that has little or no relevance to the topic at hand.

You are getting upset that someone is willing to take advice if offered... that is what I am getting at... it is quite possibly the most ridiculous critique I've heard of Keefe, and that says a lot.

 

[A1LeafNation]

Those Steve Dangle recaps are unbearable to watch. You can clearly tell Amazon hired them to promote it and they are over the top enthusiastic about the collapse.

Not authentic in the least.

 

[Throw More Waffles]

Was Matthews absent from the "team leadership" meeting or did I just not see him?

It was apparently when he was out with his wrist injury.

 

[Twine Tickler]

I thought Joe Thornton came across poorly as this jokey guy in the leadership meeting. You can kind of understand why the Bruins may have decided they needed to move him to accomplish their big culture reset way back when.

Yup I agree.

I think Jumbo was brought in to keep things loose, and fun. I imagine Toronto is arguably the hardest place to play when you don't have results. Jumbo was there to provide levity IMO, which is needed as well. But I think in that particular scene it was clear that he was not taking his role seriously enough.

I've watched 4/5 episodes so far. Kind of need a mental break before I relive the disaster of the playoffs lol.

From what I have seen so far, Muzz is clearly the best leader on the team. He never seemed afraid to call out the group for not doing the little things. I actually gained a ton of respect for JT and Spezza as well, even though I had a ton of admiration for both of them prior. One scene where Keefe went up to Spezz at practice and tried to get a gauge from him about the pulse of the room. Spezz gave honest feedback, let his boss know he may need to pump the breaks a bit, and you can tell Keefe respected that. I think that type of thing is so crucial. You need that level of harmony between the players/coaches/management.

I actually thought Keefe handled a bunch of situations really well. I loved how he called out Steve Briere on Freddy's inability to make a save. It's not necessarily Briere's fault, but suggesting Fred's play was poor luck was complete horseshit, and needed to be addressed. I also liked how he addressed the Matthews post game comments.

I also think anyone who was critical of KD for spending a 3rd rounder on Rittich really needs to watch this series. Clearly Freddy was disengaged and f***ing the team around with his injury. He gave them zero timelines, and essentially f***ed the team over. To me, he used his injury as an excuse for his dogshit play. I think that series illustrates that well. I still have respect for Fred, and don't necessarily blame him for being in the dumps. The market was all over him, but he really did f*** us there. He should have known how close he was at the TDL, but he showed zero signs of wanting to get back.

All n all, I have more faith watching this series than I did before. I think the right people are in charge. Sheldon, KD and Shanny have a great working relationship and communicate very well. I actually think this series will be a strong learnign piece for everyone. It would be hard for anyone on TOR to watch that entire series over and not realize where they went wrong. I see nothing but good things coming from this TBH

 

[CabanaBoy5]

You must game missed the post mortem on the Columbus series. The players and management said THE EXACT SAME THING. There were articles written with quotes from Dubas about how key players on the team needed to show they wanted the puck. And they would work on that for the 20-21 campaign. It's all talk from these guys. They literally just don't have the compete in them to find another gear. And management enables their thought process by talking about how they prefer to look at the teams play over the first 60 games vs the last 3. This shows a fundamental lack of understanding of how leagues with playoffs work. You need players who elevate their game at critical moments, not December heroes. As for tears, how about just making a save instead of crying about it? How about not putting a goalie in a position he's not mentally ready for?

I agree that we've heard this before. We have to hope there's a maturation process that occurs this season or I agree, we have to cut bait with the coach and one of the core 4. As for Campbell, I wasn't commenting on his goaltending skills, just the kind of person and character he possesses. He's not a No. 1 yet, and he will never be a Price or Vasy. He can be a No. 1 lite if the team in front of him is very good.

 

[Notsince67]

I agree that we've heard this before. We have to hope there's a maturation process that occurs this season or I agree, we have to cut bait with the coach and one of the core 4. As for Campbell, I wasn't commenting on his goaltending skills, just the kind of person and character he possesses. He's not a No. 1 yet, and he will never be a Price or Vasy. He can be a No. 1 lite if the team in front of him is very good.

JC is hitting his stride around the same age as Hasek did. It isnt unprecedented.

 

[egd27]

It was apparently when he was out with his wrist injury.

Thanks, that makes sense.

 

[Stephen]

Yup I agree.

I think Jumbo was brought in to keep things loose, and fun. I imagine Toronto is arguably the hardest place to play when you don't have results. Jumbo was there to provide levity IMO, which is needed as well. But I think in that particular scene it was clear that he was not taking his role seriously enough.

I've watched 4/5 episodes so far. Kind of need a mental break before I relive the disaster of the playoffs lol.

From what I have seen so far, Muzz is clearly the best leader on the team. He never seemed afraid to call out the group for not doing the little things. I actually gained a ton of respect for JT and Spezza as well, even though I had a ton of admiration for both of them prior. One scene where Keefe went up to Spezz at practice and tried to get a gauge from him about the pulse of the room. Spezz gave honest feedback, let his boss know he may need to pump the breaks a bit, and you can tell Keefe respected that. I think that type of thing is so crucial. You need that level of harmony between the players/coaches/management.

I actually thought Keefe handled a bunch of situations really well. I loved how he called out Steve Briere on Freddy's inability to make a save. It's not necessarily Briere's fault, but suggesting Fred's play was poor luck was complete horseshit, and needed to be addressed. I also liked how he addressed the Matthews post game comments.

I also think anyone who was critical of KD for spending a 3rd rounder on Rittich really needs to watch this series. Clearly Freddy was disengaged and f***ing the team around with his injury. He gave them zero timelines, and essentially f***ed the team over. To me, he used his injury as an excuse for his dogshit play. I think that series illustrates that well. I still have respect for Fred, and don't necessarily blame him for being in the dumps. The market was all over him, but he really did f*** us there. He should have known how close he was at the TDL, but he showed zero signs of wanting to get back.

All n all, I have more faith watching this series than I did before. I think the right people are in charge. Sheldon, KD and Shanny have a great working relationship and communicate very well. I actually think this series will be a strong learnign piece for everyone. It would be hard for anyone on TOR to watch that entire series over and not realize where they went wrong. I see nothing but good things coming from this TBH

Agreed on all points. I feel like management is actually much more closely aligned to some of the more “negative” or concerned voices on this board than previously imagined and seeing the struggle they’re making to get the team where they want to go is reassuring.

Rittich was a good insurance plan. Dubas actually went out and did all the shopping for the playoffs like he was cooking a Thanksgiving feast. Only thing I would criticize is we saw how quickly he buckled with extra assets in dealing with Jarmo. He’s my age, but I can recognize when a young guy wants to get things done and pays a price.

 

[Stephen]

Was Matthews absent from the "team leadership" meeting or did I just not see him?

Pretty sure he was there.

 

[Nylanderthal]

Was Matthews absent from the "team leadership" meeting or did I just not see him?

He was there, it was him, mitch, jumbo, Rielly Muzz

 

[Nylanderthal]

Agreed on all points. I feel like management is actually much more closely aligned to some of the more “negative” or concerned voices on this board than previously imagined and seeing the struggle they’re making to get the team where they want to go is reassuring.

Rittich was a good insurance plan. Dubas actually went out and did all the shopping for the playoffs like he was cooking a Thanksgiving feast. Only thing I would criticize is we saw how quickly he buckled with extra assets in dealing with Jarmo. He’s my age, but I can recognize when a young guy wants to get things done and pays a price.

Like he said to shanny and co after making the deal, let’s just push it across the line. They had the lowest value first of the four being offered based on standings and needed to sweeten the pot.
At that point are you really sweating over the 120th pick vs the 150th? The second 4th was going to SJ for brokering cap regardless.
Not that I don’t think draft capital is important, but with how this team generally likes moving back in the draft and how they bring in euro/undrafted/college FA’s I don’t think mid/late picks should be the hold up n trying to land a guy who you think puts you over the top.

 

[egd27]

He was there, it was him, mitch, jumbo, Rielly Muzz

Apparently not.

Maple Leafs' Docuseries Gives you a Peek, But not Much Else

There's a team leader's meeting with Tavares, Jake Muzzin, Morgan Rielly, Mitch Marner and Joe Thornton in Dubas' office with the GM and head coach shortly after the team's road trip through Edmonton and Vancouver in early March. Presumably absent with no explanation were Auston Matthews and Jason Spezza.

@Throw More Waffles speculated that it may have been during his wrist injury which would make sense.

 

[Nylanderthal]

Apparently not.

Maple Leafs' Docuseries Gives you a Peek, But not Much Else

There's a team leader's meeting with Tavares, Jake Muzzin, Morgan Rielly, Mitch Marner and Joe Thornton in Dubas' office with the GM and head coach shortly after the team's road trip through Edmonton and Vancouver in early March. Presumably absent with no explanation were Auston Matthews and Jason Spezza.

@Throw More Waffles speculated that it may have been during his wrist injury which would make sense.

Pardon me with masks on I mixed them up, but that timeline would make sense. Guys who are injured aren’t often involved in the day to day.

 

[shortfuze]

was it just me or did jimmy vesey seem to come off as an entitled person? not very engaged with the coach and just rubbed me the wrong way.