Why wouldn't that be a game plan. We have a window here to build towards a championship. We have a core of players in their prime (Nash, Lundqvist, Staal, Girardi) and younger guys who will fill in after them (McDonagh, Stepan, Kreider, Zucc). We don't need to draft core pieces right now, we've been acquiring big pieces for these picks to make a move for a championship in the coming years. If we're steadily adding young quality pieces to our roster, who cares if they're not marquee players. Eventually, when it's time to retool, we'll still have a quality roster, and we'll stop trading the picks to add NHL players, use them to draft, but remain competitive because we've been supplementing the roster with young talent. That's what Detroit's going through right now, it's what the Sharks have been doing for years, the kings too. It seems like a good game plan to me.
First Impressions of St. Louis
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Why wouldn't that be a game plan. We have a window here to build towards a championship. We have a core of players in their prime (Nash, Lundqvist, Staal, Girardi) and younger guys who will fill in after them (McDonagh, Stepan, Kreider, Zucc). We don't need to draft core pieces right now, we've been acquiring big pieces for these picks to make a move for a championship in the coming years. If we're steadily adding young quality pieces to our roster, who cares if they're not marquee players. Eventually, when it's time to retool, we'll still have a quality roster, and we'll stop trading the picks to add NHL players, use them to draft, but remain competitive because we've been supplementing the roster with young talent. That's what Detroit's going through right now, it's what the Sharks have been doing for years, the kings too. It seems like a good game plan to me.
Does a prospect graduating means he isn't on the team anymore? Will Fast, Lindberg, Kristo, Lindberg, Allen, Mcllrath still be in the system? Will Miller be mainstay next season? Could Skjei be signed and go to Hartford after this season?
When do we consider Duclair, Graves, and Buchnevich legit prospects? If not now, can you admit they have taken steps forward this year into becoming legit prospects? Is the 1st round the ONLY round a team can acquire prospects?
Thirty One
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aufheben
#Norris4Fox
I think it's important to have a consistently decent farm system in the salary cap NHL, you need good player's on ELC's. Of course Kreider will still be on the team, as an RFA. You always need guys who can step in on the cheap, like he and Cambot did this year.
I think it's a pretty stupid plan to be honest, but this is a matter of opinion, I guess.
Good point.
At the very least you will continue to have a pipeline of names to throw out there as some sort of justification that this franchise is in good shape.
Are Miller, Fast, Lindberg, Kristo, Mcllrath, and Allen still going to be in the system next year? So now the argument has shifted that the Rangers won't have enough prospects on ELC's after this year? That's a stretch.
Are those players going to be overpaid next year? Do the Rangers have a salary cap crunch coming up in the next few years?
aufheben
#Norris4Fox
Are all of these guys going to pan out exactly as hoped? I'm not shifting anything, my stance is and has been long term organizational health, which is the exact opposite of this ******* trade which has so far yielded nothing, and will probably be a set this franchise back, not now, not next year, but years from now.
We should have used Callahan to recoup assets from the Nash trade, but instead we traded away even more assets, for an old player who we could have signed as free agent anyway in like...15 or so months. I'm thrilled to have St. Louis as a Ranger, but it was a stupid ****ing trade and everyone outside of half our fan base knows it.
I don't understand why wanting a consistently good farm system is being met with opposition.
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So these are the five you are saying fit into the lineup seamlessly this year? I am by no means belittling the overall potential of Allen and Fast, but if you're considering what they've contributed THIS YEAR to be fitting into the lineup seamlessly, then yes, I'm sure fans of many other franchises can name at least five players who have fit into their lineups seamlessly this season.
Thirty One
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What I said was:
Yes, of course Fast and Allen's contributions to the Rangers this season were small.
OK I interpreted that as you saying all five fit in seamlessly. My mistake if my inference was incorrect.
OverTheCap
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The difference between Detroit, SJ, LA, and the Rangers is that those teams have continuously built through the draft even when their window was open, while the Rangers have shifted away from that. Even if those teams trade away a first round pick, they try to recoup them or load up on draft picks in later rounds. That way there's the potential to always have the pipeline stocked so hopefully they can avoid going through a rebuild/retool.
Hard to imagine why you think so but w.e. For the record I don't agree with the trade either, and was hoping to get some futures back from Callahan, and I'm definitely not happy to have given up the 2015 pick, but in the end, I don't see it setting us back very far. It all comes down to how much you like this team to go the distance in the next year or two or three. If you're not convinced, I imagine you'd hate the trade, if you're optimistic I think you'd like it, but either way, I think the game plan would be the same whether we had the pick or not.
No, I don't think they will all pan out but they are legit depth. They all deserve a shot in camp to compete for a spot next year. The way they have played this season they have earned the right to compete for a spot in camp.
So now we are judging a trade based on a few games? Is that fair?
So this trade will set the franchise back but not this year or next year but years from now. Did the Rangers trade every pick in the draft next year or a 1st round pick.
The franchise will be set back after next season, so you expect the missed 2015 draft pick to step in right away for Tampa? Most likely that pick wouldn't be a Rangers until 2017 or 2018. I didn't realize that one pick could be so important.
I never said a constantly good farm system is a bad thing. Don't put words in my mouth. I'm saying the fans that are upset the Rangers gave up a 1st round pick in 2015 are making ridiculous statements....like someone saying that one missed 1st round pick could set the franchise back. I think that's ridiculous. I think that's taking the point too far. Who knows, maybe I'm wrong and that pick will be a lottery pick. If the pick is a lottery pick it's not because the system failed the Rangers.
Some fans can't accept the system isn't barren and the pipeline isn't broken.
Thirty One
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The now in that question implies that's not what was done immediately.
I don't bring up the comparisons to say we've done or are doing it as well as those teams, just to illustrate that there is a feasible plan in place. Again, that's why it has to come down to whether you believe we can find young talent outside the early rounds. Thus far, I am content with our ability to do so, and I think we could be in a lot better position but we could be doing this a lot worse--see Vancouver.
Trading two first round draft picks and two second round draft picks over three consecutive years would be defendable if these brought you final pieces to the Stanley Cup. That's not us.
Trading those picks just to solidify a playoff position is horrible asset management.
Well I guess that's where it gets complicated because we did neither of those things.
I know but I'm trying to give some people the benefit of the doubt. I don't have an issue with people that don't like the trade BUT I do have an issue with people that think this is some major step back and we are ****ed for years to come.
What's funny is a lot of the same posters hated Calllahan, wanted him traded. Thought the rumors of his impending resigning would doom the franchise. So now Callahan is traded, a better player is brought in (for less money) and they have turned their attention to a lost 1st round pick. In a draft, where we don't know what the lost pick will turn into.
If the Rangers did nothing they wouldn't have been happy. If the Rangers traded Callahan for Vanek like return (which looking back was the likely return) they wouldn't have been happy. If the Rangers resigned Callahan they wouldn't have been happy. The Rangers shouldn't have included the 1st round pick BUT that doesn't make the trade a bad deal. It's called paying fair value, and unless the Rangers are completely fleecing another team in a trade certain posters will complain.
aufheben
#Norris4Fox
So you can say its fair value but I can't say it's not? Are you the only one allowed to judge it?
No I didn't like the trade from the outset, because it was an assbackwards move.
No I didn't like the trade from the outset, because it was an assbackwards move.
Thirty One
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MSL is finally going to play on the top line tonight. Never understood why AV would get a top line player to put him on the 3rd, but at least it got Brassard out of his depressed state into a manic state, and really added to some production.
I think Nash and Step will get one scoring chance after another tonight, and the Rangers get a legitimate no 1 line since the Straka-Nylander-Jagr days.
I think Nash and Step will get one scoring chance after another tonight, and the Rangers get a legitimate no 1 line since the Straka-Nylander-Jagr days.
You say it's a defendable move if it brings you the final piece to the Stanley cup. I am not in the opinion that Marty St. Louis is the final piece to a stanley cup.
You say it's horrible asset management to trade the picks just to solidify a playoff position. I am not in the opinion that that characterizes this move either. We were in a playoff position before the deal, and I don't see us falling out of it if Callahan were replaced from within by Miller or Fast, or by a different trade like for Chris Stewart.
So then, that's my point I guess. I'm still at a loss to how to feel about the trade. I'm not happy with it, but I don't think it's going to set us back exactly.
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