To fit in "seamlessly" one needs to take as small a sample of games as possible, to make an overall statistic look good.
First Impressions of St. Louis
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Thirty One
Safe is safe.
- Dec 28, 2003
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As I am in the middle of taking three months off for vacation, I actually do find this entertaining as I have a ton of free time and enjoy talking hockey. Is that now a crime?
Thirty One
Safe is safe.
- Dec 28, 2003
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Sure it does. That '11-12 team had a lot of great attributes. Its rare when a team comes together to be greater than the sum of its parts. Sure, there was some tweaks that needed to be made, but to go in a completely different direction was foolhardy.
Why doesn't it make you upset? Because this team possesses the puck more and looks nice and shiny through the prism of your advanced stats?
'11-12 was far from pretty, but that team scored more goals, gave up less goals, and won more games.
aufheben
#Norris4Fox
This just makes me laugh. Do you remember when I owned you very early in the season? You know, when the Rangers were abysmal and Vancouver was going strong, and I said the Rangers will make the playoffs and Vancouver won't, that I'd bet money on it, and you came in and adamantly said you'd take that bet in a second? It's too bad you wouldn't actually man up and put your money where your mouth is like I was willing to do. I could've used the easy cash. Also funny how you turtle on the issue and don't have much to say about it now, considering how inexorable you were back then and how opposite the two teams were in the standings. Keep it up with the sardonic comments though, at least it's something you're good at.
Thirty One
Safe is safe.
- Dec 28, 2003
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I believe you've said you had concerns about the sustainability and repeatability of that style of play (correct me if I'm wrong here). So you understand the principle, even if you don't accept the supporting evidence.
Did first option, the positive one, but that was only because it was the best relatively good option taken at the last minute.
I would have considered moving him earlier if the package was right.
Same with Girardi.
Instead we gambled on both, have both not a cheap but an ok contract on Danny boy with value added to extended term.
Cally lost value, his demands never came down, and he was viewed as a rental. We were lucky to get MSL for him + picks.
Only chance to avoid this was deal him earlier.
I would have considered moving him earlier if the package was right.
Same with Girardi.
Instead we gambled on both, have both not a cheap but an ok contract on Danny boy with value added to extended term.
Cally lost value, his demands never came down, and he was viewed as a rental. We were lucky to get MSL for him + picks.
Only chance to avoid this was deal him earlier.
Total ownership - consider my crow eaten.
Kudos for the memory, another happy and entertaining one, no doubt
Does this mean that this team will be repeatedly worse than the '11-12 team?
Or does that mean we need more time to find out?
I think this team does a lot of things better - unfortunately I also think this team does a lot of things far worse.
LittleKev6D9
Unregistered User
On the flip side, I lost the doc over/under tonight, where we bet on which words he'll say over 10 times in a game. I picked knifed, and my buddies split the pot with careened and finessed.
Not even that.
He is getting worse on the ice. Only player with a - rating. That goal was all on him.
What will happen is, he'll get red hot in the playoffs and then everyone else will get ice cold, lol.
Also, St Louis is not skating on a line with Steven Stamkos anymore, so maybe that is effecting his play and production. I can imagine if Callahan signs with Tampa, is on the same PP unit still (which has been red hot for Tampa Cally being a big part of that), and on a 5 on 5 line he likely have 60 to 70 points, maybe more since he can also score goals as well, and not just be a playmaker.
GordonGecko
First Ping Pong Ball
Megustaelhockey
"I like hockey" in Spanish
- Apr 29, 2011
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Folks, please stop making your posts personal in this thread. The back and forth that adds nothing to the discussion has gone on long enough. Further personal posts will be met with an infraction and a thread ban.
Inferno
Registered User
actually i guess im on my own here, but i saw flashes of some really good play by MSL. He held the puck more, moved it better, and got more involved.
i was actually pretty happy with his play tonight.
i was actually pretty happy with his play tonight.
3 points in 12 games, can only go up from there, right? Funny how Richards also has 3 points in 12 games, they must of looked at eachother and said "This is not Tampa" LOL!
He seems to be coming around, but he was much better in TB, even when Stamkos was out, so I am still waiting for him to hit his real stride. But he like really needs to hit it before the freakin playoffs. Hopefully next game a puck will careen to him and he can knife one in
Doc is that you? But I agree, he held onto the puck and looked a lot more comfortable in the offensive zone. Definitely better than the last few games.
BBKers
Registered User
Updated Big 3 stats
NYR Record since the St Louis trade
8 - 3 - 1
All three of these losses were lowscoring, one goal (add one EN goal) games that could/should have given a point on a team desperate for a playoff spot.
Total is 35 goals scored - 22 goals against since the trade (2,92 GF/game, 1,83 GA/game)
Before trade goal differential was 162 GF and 157 GA in 62 GP (2,62 GF/game, 2,53 GA/game)
Rangers are at 41-29-4 averaging 1,16 PPG. Before the trade Rangers were 33-26-3 and averaged 1,11 PPG. Rangers have averaged 1,42 PPG after it.
So both offense, defense and record have all improved since the trade. Hank has stood on his head.
This is all good. Very good! Team wise, of course.
However The Big 3:s production has dropped significantly in this span. These are the highly paid to go guys that Sather has mortaged our future and gone "all in" on - by trading off a big part of the future in picks, sending away fan favourite homegrown talent and outbidding the whole league for. They have consistently (barring a few exceptions) been pretty darned quiet when they should be leading the charge. Other - non star players - have been the ones to really step up instead. Stats are::
Rash 12 GP - 4 G - 2 A - 6 Pts - 0,50 PPG pace (before trade 40 GP - 19 G - 10 A - 29 P - 0,725 PPG). Salary = $7.800.000. Caphit = $7.800.000
MSL 12 GP - 0 G - 3 A - 3 Pts - 0,25 PPG pace (before trade 62 GP - 29 G - 32 A - 61 P - 1,00 PPG). Salary = $6,500,000. Caphit = $5,625,000
Beaver 12 GP - 1 G - 2 A - 3 Pts - 0,25 PPG pace (before trade 62 GP - 16 G - 28 A - 44 P - 0,71 PPG ). Salary = $9.000.000. Caphit = $6.666.667
TOTAL 36 GP - 5 G - 7 A - 12 Pts - 0,33 PPG pace (before trade 164 GP - 64 G - 50 A - 134 Pts - 0,82 PPG). Salary = $23.300.000. Caphit = $20.091.667
The Big 3 has 12 points and 5 goals since the Cally trade - of a total of 35 NYR goals scored SINCE the DEADLINE (IE 14% of goals scored)
Point totals for The Big 3 are 12 out of a total of 88 points (13,6%) in the relative 12 game span. One example is that in the same game span our heralded defenseman Ryan McDonaugh also has 12 points in 12 games, ie equaling the amount of points put up by The Big 3 combined!
Kevin Klein also has 5 points since the trade, Dan Girardi also does. John Moore has 3 points. The only regular defenders that have fewer points than Beaver and MSL since the trade are Anton Stralman (2) and Marc Staal (1).
Other fwds point totals since trade:
Stepan (11)
Hagelin (8)
Zuccarello (7 - in 10 games)
Kreider (5 - in 11 games)
Brassard (5)
Pouliot (5)
D Moore (5)
Boyle (3)
Dorsett (1 in 5 games)
Carcillo (0)
This really illustrates how bad The Big 3s production has been IMO.
The Big 3:s cap hit is however at $20.091.667 of $55.654.658 of the total hit of roster players not playing in goal. That means that their cap hit is 36,1% of this available space. This also includes all the defensemen. % cap numbers for these 3 players against the teams forwards are much worse.
So far from Superstar --- so far
Let the brain surgeon apologists now say "We are winning because these 3 stars open up the ice for everyone else"... Bleh bleh bleh
I dare you to...
A bit out there but: Numbers for Callahan are 45 GP - 11 G - 14 A - 25 Pts (0,56 PPG) before the trade and 11 GP - 4G - 4 A- 8 Pts (0,73 PPG) since it occurred. Callahan has put up 2 more points that Richards and MSL have done combined - in less games played. Or more points than Nash albeit the same amount of goals scored. Tampa has lost one game in regulation since the trade going 6-1-4 (1,45 PPG). Oh yeah, Callahan gets some PP time with Stamkos...
NYR Record since the St Louis trade
8 - 3 - 1
All three of these losses were lowscoring, one goal (add one EN goal) games that could/should have given a point on a team desperate for a playoff spot.
Total is 35 goals scored - 22 goals against since the trade (2,92 GF/game, 1,83 GA/game)
Before trade goal differential was 162 GF and 157 GA in 62 GP (2,62 GF/game, 2,53 GA/game)
Rangers are at 41-29-4 averaging 1,16 PPG. Before the trade Rangers were 33-26-3 and averaged 1,11 PPG. Rangers have averaged 1,42 PPG after it.
So both offense, defense and record have all improved since the trade. Hank has stood on his head.
This is all good. Very good! Team wise, of course.
However The Big 3:s production has dropped significantly in this span. These are the highly paid to go guys that Sather has mortaged our future and gone "all in" on - by trading off a big part of the future in picks, sending away fan favourite homegrown talent and outbidding the whole league for. They have consistently (barring a few exceptions) been pretty darned quiet when they should be leading the charge. Other - non star players - have been the ones to really step up instead. Stats are::
Rash 12 GP - 4 G - 2 A - 6 Pts - 0,50 PPG pace (before trade 40 GP - 19 G - 10 A - 29 P - 0,725 PPG). Salary = $7.800.000. Caphit = $7.800.000
MSL 12 GP - 0 G - 3 A - 3 Pts - 0,25 PPG pace (before trade 62 GP - 29 G - 32 A - 61 P - 1,00 PPG). Salary = $6,500,000. Caphit = $5,625,000
Beaver 12 GP - 1 G - 2 A - 3 Pts - 0,25 PPG pace (before trade 62 GP - 16 G - 28 A - 44 P - 0,71 PPG ). Salary = $9.000.000. Caphit = $6.666.667
TOTAL 36 GP - 5 G - 7 A - 12 Pts - 0,33 PPG pace (before trade 164 GP - 64 G - 50 A - 134 Pts - 0,82 PPG). Salary = $23.300.000. Caphit = $20.091.667
The Big 3 has 12 points and 5 goals since the Cally trade - of a total of 35 NYR goals scored SINCE the DEADLINE (IE 14% of goals scored)
Point totals for The Big 3 are 12 out of a total of 88 points (13,6%) in the relative 12 game span. One example is that in the same game span our heralded defenseman Ryan McDonaugh also has 12 points in 12 games, ie equaling the amount of points put up by The Big 3 combined!
Kevin Klein also has 5 points since the trade, Dan Girardi also does. John Moore has 3 points. The only regular defenders that have fewer points than Beaver and MSL since the trade are Anton Stralman (2) and Marc Staal (1).
Other fwds point totals since trade:
Stepan (11)
Hagelin (8)
Zuccarello (7 - in 10 games)
Kreider (5 - in 11 games)
Brassard (5)
Pouliot (5)
D Moore (5)
Boyle (3)
Dorsett (1 in 5 games)
Carcillo (0)
This really illustrates how bad The Big 3s production has been IMO.
The Big 3:s cap hit is however at $20.091.667 of $55.654.658 of the total hit of roster players not playing in goal. That means that their cap hit is 36,1% of this available space. This also includes all the defensemen. % cap numbers for these 3 players against the teams forwards are much worse.
So far from Superstar --- so far
Let the brain surgeon apologists now say "We are winning because these 3 stars open up the ice for everyone else"... Bleh bleh bleh
I dare you to...
A bit out there but: Numbers for Callahan are 45 GP - 11 G - 14 A - 25 Pts (0,56 PPG) before the trade and 11 GP - 4G - 4 A- 8 Pts (0,73 PPG) since it occurred. Callahan has put up 2 more points that Richards and MSL have done combined - in less games played. Or more points than Nash albeit the same amount of goals scored. Tampa has lost one game in regulation since the trade going 6-1-4 (1,45 PPG). Oh yeah, Callahan gets some PP time with Stamkos...
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Indeed. He actually elevated his game and his numbers went up when Stamkos was out of the lineup.
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