Firing Dubas was an excuse, the real problem is Shanny.

[hotpaws]

Working for a professional team isn’t the same as your business. That’s the first thing boomers need to understand and accept. It’s not relatable. That’s why you guys have a hard time understanding what Kyle did.

In this setting Kyle’s role is to improve the team. If someone is purposely preventing you from doing that, how can you effectively do your job. There’s def a bit of truth to both sides. Kyle made or attempted a power play, but that probably came after Shanahan consistently shooting down his ideas to improve the team and an unwillingness to move off the core four or five.

Dubas made endless trades including trading our next four 2nd rd picks and you believe Shanny was blocking moves but only blocking the genius moves that would have improved the team , lol .

The truth is Dubas was on tilt that someone dared to make him dance for his dinner instead of just rubbing stamping an extension and that's why we saw him melting down late in the season and playoffs as well as his year end presser .

the only time i heard anything about Shanny meddling was by his besties at the Athltic and only after he was fired and only after it came out he tried to back stab the person he owes his nhl career too

 

[hullsy47]

Reality is, Shanny, Dubas and Keefe should have been canned

Shanahan has tye boards ear obviously

 

[rumman]

It's impossible to really know what the main problem is, or if it's a bunch of issues.... We can point at Dubas, or Shanny, or Keefe, or the players, or Tre...

I look at it, and think it's some of the players first, parts of the core just don't have what it takes, and the loyalty to them has been too long, though maybe not as bad as some would make it out to be... when you have a core this talented, you do have to give them some rope, to grow and mature...give it time... also, the definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, and expecting different results.... it's just not happening for this group, so you have to start to make changes.... the coach is the easiest first step of course, then you wonder about the core.... last summer I wanted to make a culture change.. I wanted some heavier D, and some heavier players in the lineup overall. There was talk about having more snot... but that was just talk, and didn't materialize.

It's clearly time for change.... just where is the starting point? If Shanny says we don't need change... well, that's where you start....

Changing the President, GM, coach are easy to do, moving players with NMC’s is where it gets complicated. Hire Sutter and watch the slackers waive their NMC’s………

 

[Racer88]

He never fooled me, I knew he was a pretender from the beginning……….

Me too but he fooled the ones that counted

 

[francis246]

Dubas made endless trades including trading our next four 2nd rd picks and you believe Shanny was blocking moves but only blocking the genius moves that would have improved the team , lol .

The truth is Dubas was on tilt that someone dared to make him dance for his dinner instead of just rubbing stamping an extension and that's why we saw him melting down late in the season and playoffs as well as his year end presser .

the only time i heard anything about Shanny meddling was by his besties at the Athltic and only after he was fired

No, I don't think Shanny only blocked good moves. I think Shanny probably blocked some bad moves too. That's his job. Look at everything provided and make the final decision. I was listening to something lately and they said Dubas has been obsessed with acquiring Erik Karlsson leading back to his days as GM of Toronto. So I'm sure Shanny put a stop to that.

One thing we do know is on multiple occassions Shanahan has called the core four to tell them they aren't getting traded. So you have to assume that really constricted things for Dubas and is also currently constricting things for Brad.

 

[Apex Predator]

No, I don't think Shanny only blocked good moves. I think Shanny probably blocked some bad moves too. That's his job. Look at everything provided and make the final decision. I was listening to something lately and they said Dubas has been obsessed with acquiring Erik Karlsson leading back to his days as GM of Toronto. So I'm sure Shanny put a stop to that.

One thing we do know is on multiple occassions Shanahan has called the core four to tell them they aren't getting traded. So you have to assume that really constricted things for Dubas and is also currently constricting things for Brad.

I agree with everything here. I think it’s looking obvious Shanny doesn’t want to trade the core which is making things difficult to improve the team.

Why would Shanny not want to trade the core is the part I don’t understand. Is it really about the brand look someone mentioned earlier? Honestly the leafs could blow this up and sell a new core to the fans and they’ll still make money.

 

[Epictetus]

Both were/are unsuccessful here.

 

[Maple Leaf]

I think the team is cursed

 

[BrannigansLaw]

They all have to go; Shanny, Keefe and at least one of the core/maybe two.

Treliving isn’t anything special either. Wouldn’t be opposed to a whole scale scorched earth approach.

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

When one of your goalies goes from solid last year to literally the worst this year, then yeah, your goals against will skyrocket.

Pretty lame excuse unfortunately. Their defensive numbers have dropped off a cliff too and are bottom 10 in the league

 

[PromisedLand]

The biggest ShanaCON was hiring of an incompetent hack like dubas who got the job due to nepotism not on merit to begin with

Dubas was the biggest fraud I've ever seen in hockey. IMO the worst GM in NHL History. Dubas wasted what should have been a golden Leafs era on stupid crap.

Tre not even one year on the job and pitchforks are out by dubasites. I mean really?

I really hope 2024 is dubas thread free on the LEAFS BOARD

Reality is, Shanny, Dubas and Keefe should have been canned

This!

Right after the embarrassment that was the habs series.

Their post game presser after habs and especially after tampa loss was abysmal. They spoke like they are royalty.

P.S. Someone page Shanny about the "killer instinct"

 

[PromisedLand]

that's actually quite accurate.

you know how many dumb millennials work for me and think they are due a promotion - just because.

sometime during school I guess kids were told just "existing" makes them due bonuses and promotions. I have kids in my team that think they are secretly "quiet quitting". They think they are one step above the company.

instead they'll not get a promotion (ever) and will quit and go work somewhere else.

promotions are earned. Dubas didn't earn one.

Hear Ye Hear Ye

TRUTH!!!

 

[BrannigansLaw]

that's actually quite accurate.

you know how many dumb millennials work for me and think they are due a promotion - just because.

sometime during school I guess kids were told just "existing" makes them due bonuses and promotions. I have kids in my team that think they are secretly "quiet quitting". They think they are one step above the company.

instead they'll not get a promotion (ever) and will quit and go work somewhere else.

promotions are earned. Dubas didn't earn one.

Maybe stop hiring dumb people? That’s as much on you as it is them.

They are quitting because they know there is no such thing as corporate loyalty and the best way to get the money you need to survive these days is to job hop. Seems like you’re generalizing your employees based on their age which is discriminatory as is.

Just an aside. Done derailing.

 

[Sypher04]

that's actually quite accurate.

you know how many dumb millennials work for me and think they are due a promotion - just because.

sometime during school I guess kids were told just "existing" makes them due bonuses and promotions. I have kids in my team that think they are secretly "quiet quitting". They think they are one step above the company.

instead they'll not get a promotion (ever) and will quit and go work somewhere else.

promotions are earned. Dubas didn't earn one.

Can we leave garbage like this off the boards. There is nothing whatsoever unique about entitlement to millennials. There are loads of entitled people amongst all generations, always has been. It’s almost like it’s individual personality and upbringing and not some generational trait just because some of those who came before are miserable and lack self awareness.

 

[Knies iT]

Treliving needs to get a lot more flak. He came to a team that finished tied for 4th in the NHL and 7th best in goals against per game, and they now sit at 12th and 26th respectively. He had tons of cap space to bring a comparably strong team back if not better, but he made things significantly worse

Lol.

He walked into a situation having to immediately negotiate contracts with the franchise player in Matthews and Nylander’s headache of an agent.

The previous regime just spent several year’s worth of 1st rd picks on rentals, heavily depleting the prospect pool outside of Knies and barely any secondary players with cost control.

Pending UFAs included O’Reilly, Bunting, Schenn, Kerfoot, Holl, Acciari, Kampf, Gustafsson, and RFA Samsonov.

Bloating a team with rentals and then expecting the GM to replicate that success with a weak UFA crop in one off-season is a crazy standard. You think he’s signing 8+ players? He pulled one of the biggest names in Bertuzzi and miscalculated on Klingberg, but who was your suggested alternative? Dumba?

He’s a mid GM but he was handed a sh*t tier situation.

 

[PromisedLand]

Was Hyman really all about the money? He signed for 5.5 million and apparently was willing to sign for 5 million with Toronto as long as it was a long term deal. We’re paying Bertuzzi 5.5 million who’s worse than Hyman. Big miss on this managements part IMO. This organization seems to keep getting rid of players that love to be here and play the style you want come playoff time, Hyman, Bunting, Brown, Kadri, Moore, etc.

Hyman is good but they were not using Hyman correctly. With oilers Hyman's usage is different. He got #1PP unit time with McJesus.

He exclusively played with McDavid too., McDavid >>> Matthews+Marner. McDavid's impact on the game is really different and Oilers also got production from RNH. Draisaitl is a top 5 player in the league IMO too. Hyman at least offensively was better used by Oilers than the Leafs. Leafs used Hyman as a puck retriever not as an offensive forward.

Regardless, 5 million for Hyman was too much IMO given Leafs already had 50 million locked on 4 forwards.

Bert is on a 1 year deal for 5.5; its not that bad IMHO. if Leafs make the playoffs and Bert doesn't do much Leafs don't have to re-sign him for big dollars.

It is Bert and Domi's self interest to have impactful 2024 to get big deals as UFAs and both of them have a higher chances of getting that done especially post season than any of Dubas' acquires.

Leafs just need to sort out goal tending and D. Brodie is 5 million AAV and absolutely abysmal; Leafs gotta start there first. Just one more year of Tavares and Marner's ridiculous 11 AAV and then Leas can re-tool correctly including re-signing Willy next season

 

[PromisedLand]

I don't have any Zds working for me.

Mill's, X's, and Boomers.

Mills are the ones at review time saying "I've worked for you for two years, I should have gotten a promotion by now. How long until I'm promoted?".

And when I ask why they have done to be promoted, aside from just exist, I get this lazy look back like they don't compute.

The last one that quit on their exit interview said our company wasn't recognizing their long standing employees. She worked for us for less than three years and was the most junior in our team, lol.


I was born in the 80s.

Far from a boomer.

I learned what it takes to be successful. Learned that from my boomer mentors.

Not to take this thing off topic but it starts in school and parenting. I recall in college/university 1st and 2nd year students expected "good grades" for just like you mentioned "existing" without putting in the work

Some commie thought process there lol. Some interesting literature how modern western society is trending towards the "Fall of Rome" with their attitude and mindset.

Anyway, back to hockey..... Dubas was THE WORST GM Leafs have had IMO. Not only did he did so little with A LOT that was given to him; the little he did was screw the Leafs future too.

The question how can a GM do so little when so much was given to him: 100 pt team on the rise, plenty of cap space, plenty of assets in the cupboard, etc... and only has one 1st round win to show for it is absolute JOKE

 

[acrobaticgoalie]

We could have kept Hyman! He was willing to sign long term. We wanted him on a short team deal

Hyman was my favourite player and didn't like losing him but signing a power forward to a long term deal in his 30s is bad cap management. Especially considering he had some injury history. So far he has been relatively healthy but I can't see that being the case for the entirety of his contract. Power forwards don't usually age well past 30.

Instead we essentially replaced his production for 1/5 the price in Bunting and a younger player.

 

[PromisedLand]

I agree with everything here. I think it’s looking obvious Shanny doesn’t want to trade the core which is making things difficult to improve the team.

Why would Shanny not want to trade the core is the part I don’t understand. Is it really about the brand look someone mentioned earlier? Honestly the leafs could blow this up and sell a new core to the fans and they’ll still make money.

Marner should have been dumped after that horrendous habs series. Dubas didn't want to trade Marner.

There were rumours that Marner was going to get offersheeted (CBJ for example for 10+ AAV); Dubas should have let that happen; Leafs would have gotten 4 first round picks and cap space.

Shanny is on record saying "we expect our young leaders to take home discount"; and this was absolutely shat on by Dubas' negotiation skills.

Brendan Shanahan says Toronto Leafs expect their young stars to take less money to stay together

The Maple Leafs president says that the years of ‘winning and growing together’ are what are remembered, and so that’s what they are asking of their ‘young leaders’

www.theglobeandmail.com

If Shanny is to be blamed; he should be blamed for hiring dubas in the first place. that was the BIGGEST error made by Shanny IMO. Reading that article today again has ignited my absolute disdain for dudas again LOL

 

[I am Canadian]

Dubas was ready to trade Marner, Shanahan clearly isn't

 

[BLONG7]

If this season, does not end well, Shanny and Keefe and probably Tre are all gone..........
The window will be almost shut................

 

[hotpaws]

No, I don't think Shanny only blocked good moves. I think Shanny probably blocked some bad moves too. That's his job. Look at everything provided and make the final decision. I was listening to something lately and they said Dubas has been obsessed with acquiring Erik Karlsson leading back to his days as GM of Toronto. So I'm sure Shanny put a stop to that.

One thing we do know is on multiple occassions Shanahan has called the core four to tell them they aren't getting traded. So you have to assume that really constricted things for Dubas and is also currently constricting things for Brad.

The only core piece that needs to go is JT , you don't trade a guy that can turn a nothing play into a goal like AM or elite play drivers who make others around them better like Willie and Mtch who are in there prime .

What mgmt needs to do in the offseason is grow a pair and make JT waive his nmc .

 

[PromisedLand]

If this season, does not end well, Shanny and Keefe and probably Tre are all gone..........
The window will be almost shut................

I don't think so. On the contrary, i think until JT's 11 AAV is on the book any "door" that is open is just very very very very very slightly open and it would have to be pushed hard.

End of this season, I think Leafs can make some intelligent moves to have a better team next season; and then plan again to have an even stronger team once Tavares is off the books and Marner is either traded or re-signs for 9 to 10 AAV only or walks as UFA (whatever...)

 

[Seath The Scaleless]

Pretty lame excuse unfortunately. Their defensive numbers have dropped off a cliff too and are bottom 10 in the league

Guys like Brodie (who has been a disaster) and McCabe have played a big role in that. Should Treliving have shipped both of them out in the summer?

Yeah, the 4th line has sucked for most of the year and obviously Klingberg didn't pan out, but I don't blame Tre for having a more offensive minded approach. The team's issue in the playoffs has been scoring and clearly it wasn't working out with all those one-way defensive wizards on the team. If the coaching staff can't implement a defensive structure in place because of some different secondary pieces, then that's on them. We can blame Tre for not changing coaches in the summer.

Having said all that, the team's goal against numbers have been fine with Woll and Jones in net. Samsonov can't stop a beach ball this year.

 

[GoonieFace]

Dubas was ready to trade Marner, Shanahan clearly isn't

This was never happening under Kyle