Firing Dubas was an excuse, the real problem is Shanny.

[Nineteen67]

Hiring Dubas was a big mistake. Some said it at the time and others waited for the results to realise it was a crippling error. Dubas is an intelligent guy, works hard, and talks a great game, and I get why Shanny was impressed, but his lack of experience was a glaring hole in his resume. MLSE should not have hired him to negotiate the core‘s contracts.

Shanny has not atoned for that mistake, in fact, he’s made it worse and (without getting into all the cutesy stuff he’s done), he’s to blame.

 

[Racer88]

Reality is, Shanny, Dubas and Keefe should have been canned

 

[TheGreatOne11]

I honestly think Shanny needs to go and we need to allow a GM to be a GM.

When Dubas was here, it was reported that Shanny blocked multiple transactions that Dubas wanted to make "including the Maple Leafs president stepping in and blocking transactions as well as dictating other moves the former GM didn’t always agree with."

I would imagine for someone to step in these trades must have been pretty massive and could have changed the dynamic of the team, but Shanny disagreed.

You cannot run a franchise if you have someone micromanaging you.

I never hated Dubas and wish we could have seen the team he could have built with full control, but this is what we have right now. A top heavy team with terrible D and no goalie and no hope in hell of a cup looking like this.

I say change the team from top to bottom, Shanny gone, Keefe gone and a core player for D gone, at the very least. Do not trade any 1st and refocus this team from high octane to defensively responsible play.

Report: Ex-Leafs GM Kyle Dubas was 'at odds' with Brendan Shanahan, had trades blocked

According to The Athletic, a power struggle emerged between Kyle Dubas and Brendan Shanahan.

www.google.com

 

[CantLoseWithMatthews]

Treliving needs to get a lot more flak. He came to a team that finished tied for 4th in the NHL and 7th best in goals against per game, and they now sit at 12th and 26th respectively. He had tons of cap space to bring a comparably strong team back if not better, but he made things significantly worse

 

[francis246]

Treliving needs to get a lot more flak. He came to a team that finished tied for 4th in the NHL and 7th best in goals against per game, and they now sit at 12th and 26th respectively. He had tons of cap space to bring a comparably strong team back if not better, but he made things significantly worse

Agreed, the decisions this off-season were horrible. Honestly would have brought Bunting back too. I never understood why we let those types of players go, Hyman, Kadri, Bunting, Brown. Those four loved being Maple Leafs.

 

[Buds17]

The reality of the situation was that the role of POHO for this team just wasn't big enough for the two individuals to share. I didn't believe enough in the vision of Dubas to wish to see him have the kind of influence here that he currently has with Pittsburgh. How Shanahan and Treliving ultimately fare still remains to be fully seen.

 

[acrobaticgoalie]

Agreed, the decisions this off-season were horrible. Honestly would have brought Bunting back too. I never understood why we let those types of players go, Hyman, Kadri, Bunting, Brown. Those four loved being Maple Leafs.

Well Bunting and Kadri both became liabilities at the end of their tenure here. Plus all the players you mentioned became cap casualties. We couldn't afford to keep giving every forward raises on their next deals.

 

[Nineteen67]

Treliving needs to get a lot more flak. He came to a team that finished tied for 4th in the NHL and 7th best in goals against per game, and they now sit at 12th and 26th respectively. He had tons of cap space to bring a comparably strong team back if not better, but he made things significantly worse

He may not have watched the playoffs last year, but it was clear the D was not good enough in 8 of the 11 games they played and yet they weren’t prepared to fix it. Part of that is he needed time to evaluate, but it should be clear enough now.

 

[ITM]

How many games has it been since the 7-0 win over Pittsburgh?

Days and games, if you please.

 

[ToneDog]

Agreed, the decisions this off-season were horrible. Honestly would have brought Bunting back too. I never understood why we let those types of players go, Hyman, Kadri, Bunting, Brown. Those four loved being Maple Leafs.

Hymie was the biggest mistake. I can see why the moved on from Bunts. They have been interested in acquiring Bert for years. He has disappointed but we are paying him to make a difference in games 83+.

 

[Nineteen67]

How many games has it been since the 7-0 win over Pittsburgh?

Days and games, if you please.

14/6

 

[Canadian Finn]

Wasn’t a fan of Dubas’ work but I find comments like this so dumb and funny. Everyone’s goal in life is to be the best they can be and achieve the highest level they possibly can. I don’t know why people are taking it so personally Dubas wanted a promotion. That’s a natural progression in life. Many of us wanted him gone anyways, so who cares? It’s not that deep. Get over it lol. There have been other GM’s to pull this same move, most notably Brian Burke and Steve Yzerman.

that's actually quite accurate.

you know how many dumb millennials work for me and think they are due a promotion - just because.

sometime during school I guess kids were told just "existing" makes them due bonuses and promotions. I have kids in my team that think they are secretly "quiet quitting". They think they are one step above the company.

instead they'll not get a promotion (ever) and will quit and go work somewhere else.

promotions are earned. Dubas didn't earn one.

 

[Nineteen67]

Hymie was the biggest mistake. I can see why the moved on from Bunts. They have been interested in acquiring Bert for years. He has disappointed but we are paying him to make a difference in games 83+.

They were trying to win with speed and then they abandoned that strategy. I guess when your top 2 centres are Matthews and Tavares you must try a different approach.

 

[TMLAM34]

I think the issues are very clear. Shanny and Keefe need to be fired and the “big four” need to be split up. It’s been what 8 years and we only have one playoff win to show for it? Not to mention the regression we’ve had this year.

Matthews, Nylander, Knies, Bertuzzi, Rielly, McCabe and Liljegren are the only ones I’d look to keep from our main roster.

 

[Nineteen67]

that's actually quite accurate.

you know how many dumb millennials work for me and think they are due a promotion - just because.

sometime during school I guess kids were told just "existing" makes them due bonuses and promotions. I have kids in my team that think they are secretly "quiet quitting". They think they are one step above the company.

instead they'll not get a promotion (ever) and will quit and go work somewhere else.

promotions are earned. Dubas didn't earn one.

He probably earned one. The Leafs really should have regard themselves as a model franchise, regardless of history and record, and shouldn’t be hiring an apprentice GM at that stage of the rebuild.
But they don’t think of themselves that way. Do you remember when Dubas said that players can prove themselves and moving on the better situations, when discussing 1 yr contracts to project players?
I don’t remember the player he was talking about, but the comment stood out.

I think the issues are very clear. Shanny and Keefe need to be fired and the “big four” need to be split up. It’s been what 8 years and we only have one playoff win to show for it? Not to mention the regression we’ve had this year.

Matthews, Nylander, Knies, Bertuzzi, Rielly, McCabe and Liljegren are the only ones I’d look to keep from our main roster.

Bertuzzi , McCabe and Liljegren?

 

[Canadian Finn]

He probably earned one. The Leafs really should have regard themselves as a model franchise, regardless of history and record, and shouldn’t be hiring an apprentice GM at that stage of the rebuild.
But they don’t think of themselves that way. Do you remember when Dubas said that players can prove themselves and moving on the better situations, when discussing 1 yr contracts to project players?
I don’t remember the player he was talking about, but the comment stood out.


Bertuzzi , McCabe and Liljegren?

ok, I'll bite.

what did dubas do to earn a promotion?

this will be interesting to hear about what you feel he did over and above to earn a promotion. cause again, just existing doesn't equal a promotion.

 

[rumman]

Hymie was the biggest mistake. I can see why the moved on from Bunts. They have been interested in acquiring Bert for years. He has disappointed but we are paying him to make a difference in games 83+.

What Hyman did as a Leaf wasn’t respected, they think i’s all about high lite reel goals………

I think the issues are very clear. Shanny and Keefe need to be fired and the “big four” need to be split up. It’s been what 8 years and we only have one playoff win to show for it? Not to mention the regression we’ve had this year.

Matthews, Nylander, Knies, Bertuzzi, Rielly, McCabe and Liljegren are the only ones I’d look to keep from our main roster.

I’d hold on to Benoit too…….

 

[ToneDog]

What Hyman did as a Leaf wasn’t respected, they think i’s all about high lite reel goals………


I’d hold on to Benoit too…….

Hung onto Kerfoot and Holl who eventually walked for nothing. Sure brilliance.

 

[Gallagbi]

that's actually quite accurate.

you know how many dumb millennials work for me and think they are due a promotion - just because.

sometime during school I guess kids were told just "existing" makes them due bonuses and promotions. I have kids in my team that think they are secretly "quiet quitting". They think they are one step above the company.

instead they'll not get a promotion (ever) and will quit and go work somewhere else.

promotions are earned. Dubas didn't earn one.

Sounds like poor leadership and you may have your generations mixed up.

 

[al secord]

Shanny should be fired for hiring a incompetent back stabbing self promoting useless piece of crap weasel like Dubas .

Read this back to yourself in a calm manner . Then go seek help.

 

[andora]

Treliving needs to get a lot more flak. He came to a team that finished tied for 4th in the NHL and 7th best in goals against per game, and they now sit at 12th and 26th respectively. He had tons of cap space to bring a comparably strong team back if not better, but he made things significantly worse

Agreed, the decisions this off-season were horrible. Honestly would have brought Bunting back too. I never understood why we let those types of players go, Hyman, Kadri, Bunting, Brown. Those four loved being Maple Leafs.

And where is all this money we had and all the other options we had

 

[Nineteen67]

ok, I'll bite.

what did dubas do to earn a promotion?

this will be interesting to hear about what you feel he did over and above to earn a promotion. cause again, just existing doesn't equal a promotion.

He was GM of an AHL team and he was an assistant GM of an NHL team prior to being named GM.
That’s a natural progression. Would have been a good fit in the right situation, and the Leafs were not the right situation.

 

[nuck]

What Hyman did as a Leaf wasn’t respected, they think i’s all about high lite reel goals………


I’d hold on to Benoit too…….

Hyman was about the money. Budget reality set in and the reasonable assumption that the tail end of his deal would age poorly. How many guys become a ppg player at age 30 for the first time? The crippling deals that defined Dubas tenure were in all year one and everything after that was triage. 20-20 hindsight they pass on JT once the bidding hit $10M and keep Kadri and Hyman both.

Benoit looks really good in his limited usage. Hopefully he doesn't get a Schenn/Lybushkin springboard from a solid year in TO. Small sample but he seems like someone they should extend asap.

 

[hotpaws]

Read this back to yourself in a calm manner . Then go seek help.

incompetent - check
back stabbing weasel - check
self promotor - check

how am i wrong and why does my opinion of Dubas trigger you ?

 

[TMLAM34]

He probably earned one. The Leafs really should have regard themselves as a model franchise, regardless of history and record, and shouldn’t be hiring an apprentice GM at that stage of the rebuild.
But they don’t think of themselves that way. Do you remember when Dubas said that players can prove themselves and moving on the better situations, when discussing 1 yr contracts to project players?
I don’t remember the player he was talking about, but the comment stood out.


Bertuzzi , McCabe and Liljegren?

Yes Bertuzzi and McCabe.

Bertuzzi looks like a real pain in the ass to play against, he’s always attacking the puck and giving max effort out there, something more of our players could do. Hopefully his offence can return and he can be a 45-60 point player on our second line.

McCabe, if he slides down to the third pair, would be your ideal third pairing defenceman with some highlight real open ice hits. Something this fan base drools over for until we have it and find something else to bitch and complain about.

Still waiting to see if Liljegren can take that next step. I don’t think Keefe uses him to the best of his abilities to be honest. If Hanifin hits the market, I’d love to see a pairing of Hanifin - Liljegren. Also, we can probably lock up Lilly to a decent long term contract this off-season.