Speculation: Fire Rob Blake Blow it Up Offseason Thread (update: Robitaille, Blake and Hiller stay)

[Chazz Reinhold]

Cite what? It’s been mentioned a few times on here that he is apparently socially awkward.

That it's the reason he's not in favor. We already know the organization discarded a player who became a key NHL contributor because they didn't like how he was "scared" of playing in rookie games.

 

[tny760]

yeah limited ice time is the issue with those stats right now, the only one that really has a leg to stand on is how successful he was with danault and moore and the obvious counter-argument is that danault and moore would do that to anyone but yknow.. that's stats for you

 

[Chazz Reinhold]

I see that you didn't filter out even strength situations. I think some of those linemates were on the ice with him on the PP, and again in extremely limited ice time.

So completely not responsive or willing to support your evidence-less statement. Got it. I included all strengths because he has played so little. Those were just two examples but you can put together whatever permutation of the top lines that he's actually played with these past few seasons to see what actually happened on the ice. He's barely played with Kopitar and Kempe at the same time at even strength but actually has a few hundred minutes with Moore and Danault, so here it is at even strength:

yeah limited ice time is the issue with those stats right now, the only one that really has a leg to stand on is how successful he was with danault and moore and the obvious counter-argument is that danault and moore would do that to anyone but yknow.. that's stats for you

The per-60 stats that I originally put everyone on an equal playing field when it comes to ice time in the sense that it shows how efficient every player on a per-minute basis.

 

[AbsentMojo]

That they saw fit to scratch Kaliyev in honor of JAD (4 pts in 30 games)...tells you how braindead they are. Then they go ahead and rightfully waive JAD. At least they couldve tried to improve AK trade value... now they will waive AK et voila - yet another zero value high pick. Ill admit AK looked like shit in a few games in 23-24, but he was .5 pts a game the season before and trending in the right direction...its the org man, they love guys like JAD who fit their pre-fabricated mold but dont have any talent but bring apples to the coaches.

 

[Chazz Reinhold]

That they saw fit to scratch Kaliyev in honor of JAD (4 pts in 30 games)...tells you how braindead they are. Then they go ahead and rightfully waive JAD. At least they couldve tried to improve AK trade value... now they will waive AK et voila - yet another zero value high pick. Ill admit AK looked like shit in a few games in 23-24, but he was .5 pts a game the season before and trending in the right direction...its the org man, they love guys like JAD who fit their pre-fabricated mold but dont have any talent but bring apples to the coaches.

He started the season playing well (on a top-2 line, no less!).

Speculation: - Fire Rob Blake Blow it Up Offseason Thread (update: Robitaille, Blake and Hiller stay)

Kaliyev was praised early and often for putting in work, improving his game and performing the way they wanted him to.

Kaliyev-Danault-Moore was a successful line and at the time they were broken up, Moore was on pace for 44 goals. Kaliyev was on a 22 goal/52 point pace. Danault was on a 19 goal/50 point pace.

CF% 58.58
xGF% 57.77
GF% 69.23

 

[AbsentMojo]

He started the season playing well (on a top-2 line, no less!).

Speculation: - Fire Rob Blake Blow it Up Offseason Thread (update: Robitaille, Blake and Hiller stay)

Thx for the link.. seems getting stuck w the scrubs after Grundstrom promo broke the man. Again they overvalued their widget players like JAD and Grundstrom... Neither could play up the lineup EVER. AAAA 4th liners at best.

 

[Statto]

That it's the reason he's not in favor. We already know the organization discarded a player who became a key NHL contributor because they didn't like how he was "scared" of playing in rookie games.

I don’t think it’s the reason he’s not in favour.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Yeah, I have no data to back it up. Just this chart that shows the quality of competition for Kaliyev is below average.

PuckIQ | Woodmoney

Hockey Analytics

www.puckiq.com

Keep cherry picking stats, though. Whatever helps your cause to inflate someone who has one tool in his arsenal.

 

[Chazz Reinhold]

I don’t think it’s the reason he’s not in favour.

Sorry, I meant that your opaque assertion “it’s something else” is the reason he’s not in favor.

 

[AbsentMojo]

I don’t think it’s the reason he’s not in favour.

Its all conjecture right? Here's mine - guys with talent that get demoted in favor of scrubs develop high levels of frustration.. it seems to me he did all they asked in the offseason and then got sent to the gulag with Lewis et al - while Carl did nothing for 30 games.

 

[Chazz Reinhold]

Yeah, I have no data to back it up. Just this chart that shows the quality of competition for Kaliyev is below average.

PuckIQ | Woodmoney

Hockey Analytics

www.puckiq.com

Keep cherry picking stats, though. Whatever helps your cause to inflate someone who has one tool in his arsenal.

How does QOC change anything? The primary complaint people have had up until him being entirely banished is that he’s been unfairly buried on lower lines when he’s been productive! The stats show he does at least as well when he’s moved up the lineup. As I said several posts above, you’re making the claim that he can only produce in a lesser role. You’re more than welcome to actually back that up with some hard numbers (no, QOC does not address that).

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

How does QOC change anything? The primary complaint people have had up until him being entirely banished is that he’s been unfairly buried on lower lines when he’s been productive!

Here's more data for you.
Danault and Kaliyev with and without each other this season and the quality of competition.

Seems Danault did just fine without him and Kaliyev needed Danault more than the other way around. It also proves exactly what I was saying where Kaliyev's advanced stats were inflated against the opposition's fourth line.

I went ahead and observed how he fared with every center on the roster.

Kaliyev with/without Kopitar
Kaliyev with/without Dubois
Kaliyev with/without Lizotte

Most of the data shows that he's performing his best against grinders, not so well against elite talent.

His skating being a hindrance cannot be overlooked, and is probably a considerable reason why he can't be counted on to play a pivotal role. His zone starts weigh heavily towards the offensive zone, and his skating metrics that were measured are below league average.

Either way you cut it, this is a player who has issues if he can't get his shot off.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

Well even if his rejection wasnt due to ability (dont know the story that you apparently do) - Columbus is probably the worst organization in the league and getting that gig does not prove much ability. If he landed a job with a contender I would say, maybe his value isnt as bad as I thought it was.

It was a dispute in the numbers of letting him go, what LA was going to pay vs what CBS was going to pay....as far as a job with a contender....if they are a contender, then they aren't really looking for a coach....right? Common sense ain't so common

 

[King'sPawn]

Either way you cut it, this is a player who has issues if he can't get his shot off.

Sounds like someone who should be put in a scoring role instead of buried on the fourth line.

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

Sounds like someone who should be put in a scoring role instead of buried on the fourth line.

There are openings for that now with Arvidsson gone and Byfield shifting to center, but seems like Fagemo and Laferriere are going to earn those opportunities.

 

[Chazz Reinhold]

Here's more data for you.
Danault and Kaliyev with and without each other this season and the quality of competition.

Seems Danault did just fine without him and Kaliyev needed Danault more than the other way around. It also proves exactly what I was saying where Kaliyev's advanced stats were inflated against the opposition's fourth line.

I went ahead and observed how he fared with every center on the roster.

Kaliyev with/without Kopitar
Kaliyev with/without Dubois
Kaliyev with/without Lizotte

Most of the data shows that he's performing his best against grinders, not so well against elite talent.

His skating being a hindrance cannot be overlooked, and is probably a considerable reason why he can't be counted on to play a pivotal role. His zone starts weigh heavily towards the offensive zone, and his skating metrics that were measured are below league average.

Either way you cut it, this is a player who has issues if he can't get his shot off.

According to that Kaliyev played 18 minutes total with Kopitar last season. That’s the definition of a small sample size. As I said above, the primary complaint for seasons up until he was ostracized for some unclear reason was not getting any serious runway on a non-grinding line! If you have a guy who is as productive on a per-minute basis at scoring, generating chances, etc. as Kaliyev has been the past three seasons, maybe actually deploy him better? You’re holding it against him the he’s been a net-positive player on the ice for three years in the low minutes he’s been given.

As Jesse showed the other day, the Danault line was doing particularly great with Kaliyev to start the season but was broken up for inexplicable reasons. If he is such a one-trick pony that you need to put him on a line to cover for other deficiencies, the Danault line seems like the idea place, and there’s a track record that he plays well on that line!

 

[Ziggy Stardust]

There could be other things we don't see, like practice habits, that could be infuriating his coaches. I don't think his position in the lineup is without any merit.

Of course I'd prefer they put a guy who excels at scoring in a position to score goals, but Jim Fox pointed out that teams had the read on Kaliyev on the PP, and his frustrations on the ice were showing when he couldn't get his shot off from the right circles on the PP.

As the NHL heat map shows, that's his go-to position, and his shooting percentage in 2023-24 took a considerable dip from the previous season.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

There could be other things we don't see, like practice habits, that could be infuriating his coaches. I don't think his position in the lineup is without any merit.

Of course I'd prefer they put a guy who excels at scoring in a position to score goals, but Jim Fox pointed out that teams had the read on Kaliyev on the PP, and his frustrations on the ice were showing when he couldn't get his shot off from the right circles on the PP.

As the NHL heat map shows, that's his go-to position, and his shooting percentage in 2023-24 took a considerable dip from the previous season.

Dude you are pissing in the wind here,

The only reason that this board can accept for Kaliyev being treated/used/deployed the way he is, is that the coaches and management are f***ing morons.....that's it, point blank, no other feasible reason would ever be entertained.

 

[bmr]

Here's more data for you.
Danault and Kaliyev with and without each other this season and the quality of competition.

Seems Danault did just fine without him and Kaliyev needed Danault more than the other way around. It also proves exactly what I was saying where Kaliyev's advanced stats were inflated against the opposition's fourth line.

I went ahead and observed how he fared with every center on the roster.

Kaliyev with/without Kopitar
Kaliyev with/without Dubois
Kaliyev with/without Lizotte

Most of the data shows that he's performing his best against grinders, not so well against elite talent.

His skating being a hindrance cannot be overlooked, and is probably a considerable reason why he can't be counted on to play a pivotal role. His zone starts weigh heavily towards the offensive zone, and his skating metrics that were measured are below league average.

Either way you cut it, this is a player who has issues if he can't get his shot off.

This assessment is 100% spot on. Kaliyev is the type of guy who you use in specific situations only. If it were me, I'd have him on all the powerplays and not much else It's gonna be an interesting year!!!

 

[kingsholygrail]

It's completely feasible for Kaliyev to have limited value and the Kings to mismanage him at the same time. I was never that impressed when he did get to play.

 

[Maynard]

I don't think i understand what gaslighting is

Oh bullshit you understand it perfectly well and you know it.

(I THINK that’s gaslighting but I’m not sure either)

 

[All The Kings Men]

As Jesse showed the other day, the Danault line was doing particularly great with Kaliyev to start the season but was broken up for inexplicable reasons.

The reason was because Fiala and DUBOIS were split up and Fial, for whatever reason, is not someone that they play with Kopitar.

Three centers. Kopitar, Dubois, Danault.

Kopitar with Kempe and Byfield means FIala goes to Danault and Moore.

Then Kaliyev with DUBIOS briefly then Grundstrom and Kaliyev swap in order to get DUBOIS going and then the rest of what I said.

blah blah blah timeline timeline timeline

 

[bland]

Floating around and waiting to be fed pucks while being late and soft for all the hard work isn't a recipe for success.

That much is obvious from watching him play. I would bet his response to be called out on that (more likely by his peers than coaches) is why he isn't getting a second chance anywhere yet.

 

[GoldenBearHockey]

There could be other things we don't see, like practice habits, that could be infuriating his coaches. I don't think his position in the lineup is without any merit.

Of course I'd prefer they put a guy who excels at scoring in a position to score goals, but Jim Fox pointed out that teams had the read on Kaliyev on the PP, and his frustrations on the ice were showing when he couldn't get his shot off from the right circles on the PP.

As the NHL heat map shows, that's his go-to position, and his shooting percentage in 2023-24 took a considerable dip from the previous season.

Duplicate

 

[AbsentMojo]

It was a dispute in the numbers of letting him go, what LA was going to pay vs what CBS was going to pay....as far as a job with a contender....if they are a contender, then they aren't really looking for a coach....right? Common sense ain't so common

Not true at all check on T Murray, D Bylsma .. you know what i mean.. teams that are close or have a decent roster or on the upswing.. Columbus is not that team