Fire Ken Holland: 2022-2023 edition

[SupremeTeam16]

I’m not sure what the point is though, the great player that Lowe acquired helped them win in the playoffs is a knock on Lowe? Add in his acquisition of Peca, Roloson, and Samsonov and he got the team within one game (and one slip by MAB) from the cup. His work in 06 was masterful, the rest, not so much.

As for Holland, the Elkholm trade could rewrite his timeline here, before that the Oilers may have fought for a wildcard spot.

So basically he had one good stretch where he emptied the tank for one run that still ultimately ended as a failure and then was immediately proceeded by probably the worst portion of the franchises entire existence in which they didn’t make the playoffs for a decade and had a barren farm system that is only now starting to be replenished. He did a good job though, so good fans put up billboards in his honour.

 

[McShogun99]

So

That team had a Hall of Fame Dman on the defence. That team wouldn’t have won round 1 no matter how many moves Lowe made

Roli was the real MVP. If Pronger went down in the cup finals instead of Roli then we would have won the cup.

 

[SK13]

Puljujarvi resigning - Bad
Yamamoto resigning - Bad
Janmark - OK
Kostin - Good move
Kulak resigning - Kinda meh season for him honestly
Campbell - Worst signing of the off-season
Ekholm - Best trade of the trade deadline
Bjugstad - Pretty good trade (I suggested this one ages ago here)
Kane resigning - I mean good but hard to judge this because of the freakishness of his injuries
Broberg rookie season - Kinda dissapointing, some good signs yes but I don't think up to expectation
Holloway rookie season - Well that Calder talk died down fast, lets just put it that way. Good AHL numbers of late tho.

I mean there's good there, but there's some dog shit in there too. Generally for me, "it's up to the players now" is when the GM has done just about everything they possibly can, hit it out of the park with their graduating draft picks, etc. not "well almost half my moves were sorta shit".

There's nothing bad about either the Puljujarvi or Yamamoto signing. They were forced. Trading a guy who was your first-round pick 5 years ago after a 20-goal season because... some weirdos on a message board don't like him? At 3x2, it's an escapable deal at every juncture. Patience with Puljujarvi is something you and many others evangelized.

The exact performances of rookies like Broberg and Holloway are an interesting thing to put on Holland. It will be some years before we see what we have in them relative to their draft. Broberg, and Desharnais, were instrumental in the January turnaround for the Oilers.

Janmark signing was solid as hell. 1.25M prime aged, first unit PK who scored 10 goals and paced out to 30 points in 14 minutes a game. He has outvalued his contract pretty easily and should get another one.

In 21 months, and with massive cap frustrations, the Oilers rebuilt their bottom six from the likes of Kahun, Chiasson, Khaira, Kassian, Archibald, etc to Foegele, Ryan, Bjugstad, Janmark, Kostin and Mcleod. They added like 30 goals, got MORE reliable in their own end and they CUT salary.

 

[guymez]

Ladislav Smid has some thoughts on Ken Holland...

 

[HockeyGuy1964]

What's the over/under on the start of the 2023-24 edition of this thread?

I'll set it at Dec 1st & I'll take the under.

 

[McTonyBrar]

I’m not sure what the point is though, the great player that Lowe acquired helped them win in the playoffs is a knock on Lowe? Add in his acquisition of Peca, Roloson, and Samsonov and he got the team within one game (and one slip by MAB) from the cup. His work in 06 was masterful, the rest, not so much.

As for Holland, the Elkholm trade could rewrite his timeline here, before that the Oilers may have fought for a wildcard spot.

Good point. I agree

 

[Sheikyerbouti]

Until the Oilers are in the Finals, no one gets rated above Lowe as GM as far as I'm concerned.

You can say Lowe constructed a finals team, but did he really? The team barely made the playoffs. Was he able to do it again? No, we went back to the norm

Judging a decade long career by two months is short sighted. Lowe was incredibly bad at his job. Not only could he not create any depth or balance from year to year, but he fostered a reputation that edmonton was a bad place for players.

Holland had McDrai, but he's brought a level of class to the organization that wasn't there under all Lowe's years plus he's created depth and balance when there was none. He's 10X the GM Lowe was and Holland is just an average GM.

Lowe was president during all the tamby years and hired macT as GM when Nill was available as well. They hired a motivational speaker to coach and then dallas eakins. It was so bad we've forgotten imo

 

[stewy04]

This thread is dumb. This is the best roster This franchise has had since 1987. Its better then the 1990 roster

 

[Captain Fantastic]

This thread is dumb. This is the best roster This franchise has had since 1987. Its better then the 1990 roster

It's even dumber because it's still on page 1 here after the team going 17-0-2 and having the best PP ever ,Team and player records were broken. Almost won the conference too..
We're all an unsual bunch in here.

 

[Spawn]

It's even dumber because it's still on page 1 here after the team going 17-0-2 and having the best PP ever ,Team and player records were broken. Almost won the conference too..
We're all an unsual bunch in here.

To be fair it's only on the top page because the people who were afraid to post in this thread throughout the first 60 games of this season keep bumping it being like "wow what a bad take" as if the "fire holland" option wasn't leading in the poll until a few weeks ago.

 

[Wretched Oil]

Maybe if we troll Soundwaves terrible takes hard enough we can get this shitshow locked

 

[Spawn]

Maybe if we troll Soundwaves terrible takes hard enough we can get this shitshow locked

You’re free to ignore it.

 

[bobbythebrain]

"It's up to the players" is something you EARN as a GM when you build a juggernaut roster like Joe Sakic did with the Avs last year, the Tampa leadership did with the previous two Tampa teams before that.

You get that when you've done just about everything right and the roster is rock solid in its construction from just about every angle.

This team maybe still needs McDavid and Draisaitl to be at near superhuman levels to cover up several flaws and sure it's possible they can do that, but I don't think they are at that level where a GM can say "you know my job here is done". Well for one, you're running a rookie goalie because your 5 million UFA no.1 goalie that supposedly was scouted heavily is unplayable. Sorry but that's not a "my job is done here as GM" situation. Yamamoto still in our top 6 when he has no business being in the top 6 of any top team. Still a lot of rawness and inexperience on the blue line, probably more than a Cup contender should really have. Cody Ceci probably really should not be playing in the top 4 of a Cup contender either frankly.

Holland got it right with the Ekholm trade, 100% can give him credit for that, but no this isn't a job done to the point where he deserves to kick his feet up on a desk like Sakic could last year.

Dude you're talking out your ass here. TB flamed out in a round one until they loopholed the cap, not to mention their taxes and desired destination for acquiring players, which helps them year after year

Sakic was a notorious "failure" with his Iginla. Roy, O'Reilly

You literally are compiling several years of crap/privilege from these teams and making it sound like it happened overnight, while claiming Holland has only mere minutes to make this team a SC team, when in reality he is very lucky to have players actually want to play here finally, and yet that is still a very limited pool

Get a grip. You're not the GM you think you are when you factor in actual reality

BrisBois and Sakic have, like.. 80% of the NHL to pool from. Holland has like...20%. and climbing...finally unless he throws insane amounts of cap to throw around

Your "rock solid" "every angle" analogy is just plain nonsense. Edm is like on 80% of NTC lists, probabally more. Col, TB, not so much

So seeing you here stroking off other GM's who have a clear "handicap" while throwing your own team under the bus without an inkling of understanding of the reality of the situation is laughable

 

[GOilers88]

50 wins second possibly first in the WC.
Best PP in NHL history
Every bottom 6 forward had 10 or more goals
Most SH goals of the season.
3 100 point players
4 straight playoff appearances
1 WC final
Hands down the best TDD acquisition of 2023
Two 80 plus point players signed at 5.1 per

How is this thread not dead and buried already???

Products of McDavid.

GM got lucky.

 

[GOilers88]

To be fair it's only on the top page because the people who were afraid to post in this thread throughout the first 60 games of this season keep bumping it being like "wow what a bad take" as if the "fire holland" option wasn't leading in the poll until a few weeks ago.

The real issue is the same people freaking out at the same points of the season for the last 3 years in a row and the team once again showing it was all a bunch of pointless drivel. But we get this exact same thread every year after the first couple of weeks of the season because people like to freak out less than 10% of the way through a season.

 

[JustNapalmIt]

The best narrative is he’s a failure/bad GM unless Oilers go to finals/win the Cup.
Of course that the narrative of those who already have been shown to be ourt to lunch. It’s the only way they can continue to cling on , because been ”right” is ooooh sooo important.
Pathetic but it is what it is.

 

[barry halls]

50 wins second possibly first in the WC.
Best PP in NHL history
Every bottom 6 forward had 10 or more goals
Most SH goals of the season.
3 100 point players
4 straight playoff appearances
1 WC final
Hands down the best TDD acquisition of 2023
Two 80 plus point players signed at 5.1 per

How is this thread not dead and buried already???

I regret my original vote and hereby retract it. Holland really has done a good job, 4 straight playoff berths seals it for me. His methodical and patient approach to roster-building can be frustrating for impatient fans like me, but it is damned effective.

I’d still like to see them take another step towards being a consistently elite team next year (ie comfortably in a playoff spot at American Thanksgiving and no December slump), but I think that’s up to the players. Ken has provided the pieces for them to be an elite team.

 

[Fourier]

Holland has his flaws including a very obvious lack of creativity with the cap. I was critical of his slow approach to addressing the team's issues early in the season because had this year gone sour it would have been a disaster. Had the Oilers missed the playoffs this year we would have been talking about trading Draisaitl and McDavid before they jump ship. But the Ekholm trade showed how close this team really was to been fully legit. While it is true that the most significant elements were here before with the depth he has added I think this version of the team is the best it has been since the 80's. I also think that he has restored a certain amount of respect for the organization that had been lost for many years.

Next year will be a big test. There are still cap challenges and holes to fill. How he navigates those challenges will be interesting to see. Of course, if the team flames out in the first round for example, then I think the pressure to move him up the ladder will be great. At this point with the Draisaitl and McDavid contracts nearing an end success is the only acceptable option.

 

[SupremeTeam16]

You’re free to ignore it.

Absolutely not, ignoring just creates a bigger problem. People with stupid opinions have to be shown how stupid they are, otherwise they get amnesia about their awful takes and just continue to go on thinking they know what they’re talking about and keep spewing their crap as definitive.

They must be dragged and shamed and have their noses rubbed in their shitty opinions so that they learn.

 

[McDoused]

The best narrative is he’s a failure/bad GM unless Oilers go to finals/win the Cup.
Of course that the narrative of those who already have been shown to be ourt to lunch. It’s the only way they can continue to cling on , because been ”right” is ooooh sooo important.
Pathetic but it is what it is.

100%. Like imagine blaming the guy that literally cant make any moves now that the trade deadline has passed. Holland had a phenomenal trade deadline by moving out salary, adding the single most impactful player at the deadline and an underrated move in Bjugstad (which I was skeptical of at the time) but helped solidify out bottom six.

The players believe they have the pieces to get the job done and now it's on them and the coach to deliver.

Posters like Soundwave have unrealistic expectations. This isnt NHL 23. Players have to play the games. Goaltenders get hot. Refs miss calls. Guys get injured. Bounces dont go your way sometimes. Winning isnt guaranteed.

 

[HockeyGuy1964]

To be fair it's only on the top page because the people who were afraid to post in this thread throughout the first 60 games of this season keep bumping it being like "wow what a bad take" as if the "fire holland" option wasn't leading in the poll until a few weeks ago.

To be honest it was a silly thread the day you started it & is just as silly today.
The 1st & 2nd edition of this thread were also silly but on point for this place.

 

[Lay Z Boy GM]

Maybe Lucic can go back to Boston. Can’t believe any Oilers fan has interest in this guy. I wish him the best though truly, but the ship has sailed long ago.

Maybe in a few months Connor can catch up with Milan and compare rings

 

[Wretched Oil]

You’re free to ignore it.

Riveting insight there genius

 

[Spawn]

Riveting insight there genius

Lol

 

[KeithIsActuallyBad]

Staple the Nurse and Campbell contracts to his forehead then kick him out. You’re done, Kenny.