Fire Ken Holland: 2022-2023 edition

[JustNapalmIt]

Acknowledge the context and you can have your mea culpa otherwise no f***ing dice on that buddy.

Everyone here knows I am one of Draisaitl's biggest supporters and I didn't even want Hall gone, let alone Draisaitl.

If threads like this bother you so much that you need to dig through 60,000 posts from 7 years ago out of context to come up with your mea culpa, then maybe this thread ain't for you chief.

The GM is not your friend or buddy, he's not even "one of the boys on the the bus" ... it's not Davo and Drai baby and Kaner and Nuge and Kenny H., lol. GMs are suits, they're paid to do a job, hired to be fired, criticism is part of that job, criticism with a generational talent (maybe two of them) is 100% fair if you're into year 8 and you haven't even made the Finals yet.

If that blows your mind, OK, maybe go visit another thread but you don't get to police what people say or who gets to argue what. This is a message board, don't like the argument made, then make a counter point, going 7 years back to dig up an ancient post out of context isn't the flex you think it is.

U CouLDn'T gM is like saying no one on the board can criticize any player ever either because no one can play at an NHL level. It's a stupid argument to make on a hockey message board.

Learn wut mea culpa is. Otherwise dont use it.
Again, your the guy who luved the Puju signing, wanted Nurse & Drai gone for junk, loved the Reinhart trade.
Pathetic.
Actually beyond pathetic
Im starting to think youre the guy who thought McDavid was overrated. Was that you?

So now you’re holding Holland accountable for the four years of McDavid he wasn’t here for.

Just wild beyond words at this point.

Crazy shit. Facts irrelevant.

 

[Soundwave]

So now you’re holding Holland accountable for the four years of McDavid he wasn’t here for.

Just wild beyond words at this point.

I hold any GM with no leash here until they get the team to the Cup Final with a generational player.

Connor is holding up his end of the bargain, he was hyped as "better than Crosby" and he actually is living up to that.

And no this is not something magically new just for poor Ken Holland ... you think Pittsburgh's management did not have a mountain of shit piled on them until they finally won with Mario? Jerry Krause went to his grave quite frankly getting little to no credit for winning 6 titles with the Chicago Bulls because well ... Michael Jordan. You better win a ton of titles with Michael Jordan. Want a pat on the back for doing it? Tough shit.

I don't want to hear excuses in year 4 about why this is hard.

If that upsets you, OK fine. On this topic I'm not here to make friends and hold hands. Is what it is. The attitude is this full f***ing stop this:



I don't expect everyone to like that or get that, but again I don't need my hand held on this one.

 

[Ol' Jase]

I hold any GM with no leash here until they get the team to the Cup Final with a generational player.

Connor is holding up his end of the bargain, he was hyped as "better than Crosby" and he actually is living up to that.

And no this is not something magically new just for poor Ken Holland ... you think Pittsburgh's management did not have a mountain of shit piled on them until they finally won with Mario? Jerry Krause went to his grave quite frankly getting little to no credit for winning 6 titles with the Chicago Bulls because well ... Michael Jordan. You better win a ton of titles with Michael Jordan. Want a pat on the back for doing it? Tough shit.

I don't want to hear excuses in year 4 about why this is hard.

If that upsets you, OK fine. On this topic I'm not here to make friends and hold hands. Is what it is. The attitude is this full f***ing stop this:



I don't expect everyone to like that or get that, but again I don't need my hand held on this one.

Cool. Doesn’t make you look any less completely out of your element.

You made a list of things the guy things actually did that you wanted him to do to reinforce how shitty he is. That’s some world class self owning on a level rarely seen.

Using the NBA and Michael Jordan references to try and prove your wild thought processes makes it significantly worse.

 

[Soundwave]

Cool. Doesn’t make you look any less completely out of your element.

You made a list of things the guy things actually did that you wanted him to do to reinforce how shitty he is. That’s some world class self owning on a level rarely seen.

You wanna be friends with the GM, that's on you. You need to feel like he's a lovable mascot great. Good for you.

That ain't me.

You the GM? You got a Michael Jordan, Wayne Gretzky, Tom Brady, Kobe Bryant, LeBron James, Sidney Crosby, Connor McDavid tier talent in their prime on your roster?

My message to that person is your ass better get the job done because those players are going to hold up their end of the bargain, the question is are you?

And don't be expecting big credit when you do some good things either. After 3 years really (I'll even be nice and give a 4th year here as a grace period ... you want nice, there you go) it should be Cup or bust with a player that good. If you're expecting something else that ain't the TV show you're in boss. This is Game of Thrones out here not Full House.

 

[Ol' Jase]

You wanna be friends with the GM, that's on you. You need to feel like he's a lovable mascot great. Good for you.

That ain't me.

You the GM? You got a Michael Jordan, Wayne Gretzky, Tom Brady, Kobe Bryant, LeBron James, Sidney Crosby, Connor McDavid tier talent in their prime on your roster?

My message to that person is your ass better get the job done because those players are going to hold up their end of the bargain, the question is are you?

And don't be expecting big credit when you do some good things either. After 3 years really (I'll even be nice and give a 4th year here as a grace period ... you want nice, there you go) it should be Cup or bust with a player that good. If you're expecting something else that ain't the TV show you're in boss. This is Game of Thrones out here not Full House.

Friends with the GM??

The Oilers jus won their 50th game of the season, 45th regulation win of the season and this is your post?? Lol.

Again, you are just committed to the bit at this point. You’re not making any sense at all. It’s honestly pretty wild to witness.

 

[Soundwave]

Friends with the GM??

The Oilers jus won their 50th game of the season, 45th regulation win of the season and this is your post?? Lol.

Again, you are just committed to the bit at this point. You’re not making any sense at all. It’s honestly pretty wild to witness.

So what? Like what do you want? Me to throw a party?

I expect a team with McDavid having a 150+ point season and 60 goals to be a top team, if not the top team in their conference. Why shouldn't they be? That should be the baseline not a miracle event. Raise your expectations.

The Calgary Flames had what? 111 points last year (?), we have 109 this year with McDavid having a better season than any Flame in their history, like why shouldn't we be the top seed?

That's honestly how I feel. Why is the bar set that low?

 

[JustNapalmIt]

You wanna be friends with the GM, that's on you. You need to feel like he's a lovable mascot great. Good for you.

That ain't me.

You the GM? You got a Michael Jordan, Wayne Gretzky, Tom Brady, Kobe Bryant, LeBron James, Sidney Crosby, Connor McDavid tier talent in their prime on your roster?

My message to that person is your ass better get the job done because those players are going to hold up their end of the bargain, the question is are you?

And don't be expecting big credit when you do some good things either. After 3 years really (I'll even be nice and give a 4th year here as a grace period ... you want nice, there you go) it should be Cup or bust with a player that good. If you're expecting something else that ain't the TV show you're in boss. This is Game of Thrones out here not Full House.

I cant disagree with that. Just please, oh please, do not trade nurse & Drai for Ekman Larssson & Strome, gobble on Puju , & trade for Reinhart for a couple of 1st rounders (oh yeah, you said Barzal aint that good).
Call me crazy, & you may be into that crazy shit, but that aint gonna work out well.

 

[Ol' Jase]

So what? Like what do you want? Me to throw a party?

I expect a team with McDavid having a 150+ point season and 60 goals to be a top team, if not the top team in their conference. Why shouldn't they be? That should be the baseline not a miracle event. Raise your expectations.

The Calgary Flames had what? 111 points last year (?), we have 109 this year with McDavid having a better season than any Flame in their history, like why shouldn't we be the top seed?

That's honestly how I feel.

Honest question, are you reading what you’re writing at this point? Where do you think we are in the Conference? A wild card? Have we made the playoffs in your world?

We beat the 111 point team you are referencing as support for your argument handily in the playoffs.

This is getting a little embarrassing.

 

[Soundwave]

Honest question, are you reading what you’re writing at this point? Where do you think we are in the Conference? A wild card? Have we made the playoffs in your world?

We beat the 111 point team you are referencing as support for your argument handily in the playoffs.

This is getting a little embarrassing.

I expect if you have a generational player in their prime, in a career year on top of that the likes of which the sport hasn't seen in oh 30 years, that you should be at the top of the conference if not flat out no.1 basically every year.

Are you going to now get angry about that being unreasonable?

It isn't unreasonable. We are the minimum point where we should be. Any lower than this frankly is under performance. There shouldn't honestly even be a team in the Pacific division sniffing even our jock strap if you want me to be bluntly honest.

Vegas with no Mark Stone for 1/2 the year and no starting goalie for 1/2 the year ... why should they even be close to us?

 

[JustNapalmIt]

So what? Like what do you want? Me to throw a party?

I expect a team with McDavid having a 150+ point season and 60 goals to be a top team, if not the top team in their conference. Why shouldn't they be? That should be the baseline not a miracle event. Raise your expectations.

The Calgary Flames had what? 111 points last year (?), we have 109 this year with McDavid having a better season than any Flame in their history, like why shouldn't we be the top seed?

That's honestly how I feel. Why is the bar set that low?

You expect? Frankly what you expect is irrelevant.
If the GM did what you expected we'd be in the shitter for the remainder of MacD's time, we wouldn't have Nurse or Drai, we would still be playing Reinhart cause you were pumped on that trade,and you'd be pinning your hopes on Puju, despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.
My lord

 

[mkatcherin00]

Holland pi**ed me off a lot during the first half of the year, but he has done more good than bad I would say.

This team is a bonafide yearly cup contender on top of this year if he can get a another top 4 dman and a solid guy to replace Yammo. Somebody stronger.

Our bottom 6 has been good this year. Ryan is a UFA. Janmark, etc. Hope he keeps Janmark and Bjustad. Kostin I think needs signing. Hope we don't break it all up after finally having a good bottom 6

Only other bad move is Campbell right now. THhat money could be going towards a solid dman in an ideal world.

 

[SupremeTeam16]

Honest question, are you reading what you’re writing at this point? Where do you think we are in the Conference? A wild card? Have we made the playoffs in your world?

We beat the 111 point team you are referencing as support for your argument handily in the playoffs.

This is getting a little embarrassing.

Wouldn’t you rather be best friends with 111 point GM Brad Treliving? He loved to be aggressive and give away high draft picks look how good it worked out for him.

 

[Ol' Jase]

I expect if you have a generational player in their prime, in a career year on top of that the likes of which the sport hasn't seen in oh 30 years, that you should be at the top of the conference if not flat out no.1 basically every year.

Are you going to now get angry about that being unreasonable?

It isn't unreasonable. We are the minimum point where we should be. Any lower than this frankly is under performance. There shouldn't honestly even be a team in the Pacific division sniffing even our jock strap if you want me to be bluntly honest.

Vegas with no Mark Stone for 1/2 the year and no starting goalie for 1/2 the year ... why should they even be close to us?

I expect if you have a generational player in their prime, in a career year on top of that the likes of which the sport hasn't seen in oh 30 years, that you should be at the top of the conference if not flat out no.1 basically every year.

Are you going to now get angry about that being unreasonable?

It isn't unreasonable. We are the minimum point where we should be. Any lower than this frankly is under performance. There shouldn't honestly even be a team in the Pacific division sniffing even our jock strap if you want me to be bluntly honest.

Vegas with no Mark Stone for 1/2 the year and no starting goalie for 1/2 the year ... why should they even be close to us?

Honestly, this is just getting too much for me to keep up with. You’re just making shit up as you go.

You missed a hell of a season. It was awesome.

 

[Soundwave]

Honestly, this is just getting too much for me to keep up with. You’re just making shit up as you go.

You missed a hell of a season. It was awesome.

I enjoyed the season just fine (more than fine frankly), I'm not going to give anyone in Oilers management a bouquet of roses for it though. Jobs not finished, it hasn't even really begun yet. If you told me before this season started that McDavid would have 64 goals and 150+ points and Colorado and Vegas would also have a shit ton of injuries, the Flames would fall apart entirely and not even be in the playoffs, I would say to you frankly we should own the conference.

Like why do you find that so mind blowing?

 

[JustNapalmIt]

I expect if you have a generational player in their prime, in a career year on top of that the likes of which the sport hasn't seen in oh 30 years, that you should be at the top of the conference if not flat out no.1 basically every year.

Are you going to now get angry about that being unreasonable?

It isn't unreasonable. We are the minimum point where we should be. Any lower than this frankly is under performance. There shouldn't honestly even be a team in the Pacific division sniffing even our jock strap if you want me to be bluntly honest.

Vegas with no Mark Stone for 1/2 the year and no starting goalie for 1/2 the year ... why should they even be close to us?

I take it you'd sign Puju to a long term contract (cause you were pumped about him), traded Drai & Nurse,for Strome & Ekman Larsson, & would have waived po poms for your man Chias trade for Reinart.
That would have set us on to the promised Land?

 

[Ol' Jase]

I enjoyed the season just fine (more than fine frankly), I'm not going to give anyone in Oilers management a bouquet of roses for it though. Jobs not finished, it hasn't even really begun yet. If you told me before this season started that McDavid would have 64 goals and 150+ points and Colorado and Vegas would also have a shit ton of injuries, the Flames would fall apart entirely and not even be in the playoffs, I would say to you frankly we should own the conference.

Like why do you find that so mind blowing?

Other than the fact you can’t make a consistent argument and are going on these weird self own tangents? Not all that much.

Again, the commitment to the bit really isn’t necessary at this point.

It doesn’t make any difference though. You have (very bizarrely) made it clear that you will not be giving management any credit for things, even though you made a comprehensive list of shit you wanted them to do that they did.

That’s just…well, it really doesn’t lend credibility to your arguments.

 

[McTonyBrar]

FIRE HIM HUR DUR


That was me

 

[JustNapalmIt]

I enjoyed the season just fine (more than fine frankly), I'm not going to give anyone in Oilers management a bouquet of roses for it though. Jobs not finished, it hasn't even really begun yet. If you told me before this season started that McDavid would have 64 goals and 150+ points and Colorado and Vegas would also have a shit ton of injuries, the Flames would fall apart entirely and not even be in the playoffs, I would say to you frankly we should own the conference.

Like why do you find that so mind blowing?

How do you think Oil would would have done with all your horrendous takes?

 

[McTonyBrar]

Acknowledge the context and you can have your mea culpa otherwise no f***ing dice on that buddy.

Everyone here knows I am one of Draisaitl's biggest supporters and I didn't even want Hall gone, let alone Draisaitl.

If threads like this bother you so much that you need to dig through 60,000 posts from 7 years ago out of context to come up with your mea culpa, then maybe this thread ain't for you chief.

The GM is not your friend or buddy, he's not even "one of the boys on the the bus" ... it's not Davo and Drai baby and Kaner and Nuge and Kenny H., lol. GMs are suits, they're paid to do a job, hired to be fired, criticism is part of that job, criticism with a generational talent (maybe two of them) is 100% fair if you're into year 8 and you haven't even made the Finals yet.

If that blows your mind, OK, maybe go visit another thread but you don't get to police what people say or who gets to argue what. This is a message board, don't like the argument made, then make a counter point, going 7 years back to dig up an ancient post out of context isn't the flex you think it is.

U CouLDn'T gM is like saying no one on the board can criticize any player ever either because no one can play at an NHL level. It's a stupid argument to make on a hockey message board.

Dude what is this?

 

[Soundwave]

Other than the fact you can’t make a consistent argument and are going on these weird self own tangents? Not all that much.

Again, the commitment to the bit really isn’t necessary at this point.

If you don't want any tangents, I'll just make it plain.

With Connor McDavid, I expect at least one Cup in his prime. I expect the Oilers to always be a top team in the league in his prime as the baseline (yes I said baseline, not the roof).

When a Cup is won, then whoever happens to be the suit in charge of GMing can get their flowers. Not before then.

Period.

If you want to kick and scream about how unfair or unreasonable that is, be my guest. That's 110% how I feel. I will not give any GM any leash here until the job at hand is done and that is the job. You get some leash when you make a Cup Finals, how about that? Fair?

And please enough with the boo hooing over it, Ken Holland makes 6 million dollars a year to accept this challenge, he's a big boy, he can handle it or he shouldn't have accepted the job. He doesn't need me to be nice to him, he's not operating in the business of "nice".

 

[McTonyBrar]

I hold any GM with no leash here until they get the team to the Cup Final with a generational player.

Connor is holding up his end of the bargain, he was hyped as "better than Crosby" and he actually is living up to that.

And no this is not something magically new just for poor Ken Holland ... you think Pittsburgh's management did not have a mountain of shit piled on them until they finally won with Mario? Jerry Krause went to his grave quite frankly getting little to no credit for winning 6 titles with the Chicago Bulls because well ... Michael Jordan. You better win a ton of titles with Michael Jordan. Want a pat on the back for doing it? Tough shit.

I don't want to hear excuses in year 4 about why this is hard.

If that upsets you, OK fine. On this topic I'm not here to make friends and hold hands. Is what it is. The attitude is this full f***ing stop this:



I don't expect everyone to like that or get that, but again I don't need my hand held on this one.

What are you trying to do here? Make yourself relevant? It just seems like your mad because you know you were wrong or are wrong now

 

[Ol' Jase]

If you don't want any tangents, I'll just make it plain.

With Connor McDavid, I expect at least one Cup in his prime. I expect the Oilers to always be a top team in the league in his prime.

When a Cup is won, then whoever happens to be the suit in charge of GMing can get there flowers. Not before then.

Period.

If you want to kick and scream about how unfair or unreasonable that is, be my guest. That's 110% how I feel.

Cool?

Nobody is kicking and screaming here, my dude. You’re just all over the map and impossible to follow. You’re just not making any sense.

 

[JustNapalmIt]

If you don't want any tangents, I'll just make it plain.

With Connor McDavid, I expect at least one Cup in his prime. I expect the Oilers to always be a top team in the league in his prime.

When a Cup is won, then whoever happens to be the suit in charge of GMing can get there flowers. Not before then.

Period.

If you want to kick and scream about how unfair or unreasonable that is, be my guest. That's 110% how I feel. I will not give any GM any leash here until the job at hand is done and that is the job.

Reading comprehension time.
How ya think Oil would so without Nurse & Drai?

 

[Soundwave]

Reading comprehension time.
How ya think Oil would so without Nurse & Drai?

That trade you keep quoting is taking grossly out of context because the reports were that he wanted the same 12 million or so that McDavid got. When I seriously want something done, I'm not shy about I'll gladly repeat it, I doubt you can find very many posts where I seriously said Draisaitl should be traded. Nurse? Maybe him, lol. If you want to do the whole "AHA! GOTCHA" thing and make it accurate one of the times I was definitely wrong was Athansiou. I wanted him and he was ass here (granted it was a weird situation with the COVID shutdown). My sense that I got though was he didn't want to be here, hard to predict that.

I've said before I think HFBoards if you took the top 6-7 posters and had them make decisions for the Oilers from 2015 onwards it's certainly not impossible that the team would be better off. As I recall, most of this board wanted Barzal, not Reinhart (correct). Most of this board did not want the Hall for Larsson deal (correct). The board consensus as far as I can tell has been right in the long term more than the GMs here have been.

One of the times board consensus was wrong was people saying no initially to Evander Kane. I was one of the first who said we ought to trade Kassian for Kane and got yelled down on that, this was before he was even linked to the Oilers. But generally I think sure board consensus here is actually smarter than people think.

This whole "NHL GmS aRe SooooooPER smART, faNS doN't kNow ShIT" is inaccurate. There are plenty of times where fans are correct and management is in the wrong.

 

[Ol' Jase]

That trade you keep quoting is taking grossly out of context because the reports were that he wanted the same 12 million or so that McDavid got. When I seriously want something done, I'm not shy about I'll gladly repeat it, I doubt you can find very many posts where I seriously said Draisaitl should be traded. Nurse? Maybe him, lol.

I've said before I think HFBoards if you took the top 6-7 posters and had them make decisions for the Oilers from 2015 onwards it's certainly not impossible that the team would be better off. As I recall, most of this board wanted Barzal, not Reinhart (correct). Most of this board did not want the Hall for Larsson deal (correct). The board consensus as far as I can tell has been right in the long term more than the GMs here have been.

One of the times board consensus was wrong was people saying no initially to Evander Kane. I was one of the first who said we ought to trade Kassian for Kane and got yelled down on that, this was before he was even linked to the Oilers. But generally I think sure board consensus here is actually smarter than people think.

This whole "NHL GmS aRe SooooooPER smART, faNS doN't kNow ShIT" is inaccurate. There are plenty of times where fans are correct and management is in the wrong.

Good night, everyone. Nothing is going to top this.

If you don't want any tangents, I'll just make it plain.

With Connor McDavid, I expect at least one Cup in his prime. I expect the Oilers to always be a top team in the league in his prime as the baseline (yes I said baseline, not the roof).

When a Cup is won, then whoever happens to be the suit in charge of GMing can get their flowers. Not before then.

Period.

If you want to kick and scream about how unfair or unreasonable that is, be my guest. That's 110% how I feel. I will not give any GM any leash here until the job at hand is done and that is the job. You get some leash when you make a Cup Finals, how about that? Fair?

And please enough with the boo hooing over it, Ken Holland makes 6 million dollars a year to accept this challenge, he's a big boy, he can handle it or he shouldn't have accepted the job. He doesn't need me to be nice to him, he's not operating in the business of "nice".

No one is boohooing, Jesus Christ.

You are absolutely the only person in the thread with irrational emotions.