Fire Ken Holland: 2022-2023 edition

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Fire Ken Holland?


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Can't be given any more than a C-. I mean yes he finally got off his ass after 3+ years and got one solid defenceman who actually plays defence ... for a team that probably needs 2 of those guys at minimum.

You don't deserve a passing grade as a GM when you have a player scoring at like a Gretzky/Lemieux pace, the no.2 scorer, and two other guys pacing for 100 points and yet some how the team is not even top 3 in a soft division with only 15 games left in the regular season.

You've f***ed some things up and/or haven't brought in enough support in a timely enough fashion if that is the case.
Not enough support? Hyman, Kane and the bottom 6 (most of which are Holland adds) has been one of the better bottom 6's in the league tbh, a +12 with McDavid and Draisaitl off the ice is terrific. Part of why McDavid and Drai are putting up monster numbers is the growing support around them.

Also, can't ignore that Ekholm is likely the biggest trade addition the Oilers have made since the summer of 2005 whether it didn't happen soon enough for your liking or not. He's not just a "solid" Dman, he's a legit top pairing Dman locked in for 3 more years. That's a monster acquisition, A+ if you ask me.

There's some bad with the good as is the case with most GMs (yes, some real bad in this case) but he's turned what was an inherited bottom 10 team in cap hell into what looks like a real contender 3 years in with a solid pipeline of young players filtering in to extend the window so I'd grade him closer to a B than a C.

With that said, I think it's about time for him to hand over the reigns to somebody else whether it be Brad or someone else. Still too rigid with his strategy for my liking, gonna need somebody more creative to not only keep this team together but improve it with limited cap flexibility to work with and the monster extensions to the elite coming within view.
 
"People are not allowed to have differing opinions."

That's all I hear.

I mean is anyone in the media even in Edmonton lobbying Ken Holland for being one of the top GMs in the league or being a candidate for GM of the year?

Hell no, lol.

Not enough support? Hyman, Kane and the bottom 6 (most of which are Holland adds) has been one of the better bottom 6's in the league tbh, a +12 with McDavid and Draisaitl off the ice is terrific.

Can't ignore that Ekholm is likely the biggest trade addition the Oilers have made since the summer of 2005.

There's some bad with the good as is the case with most GMs (yes, some real bad in this case) but he's turned what was an inherited bottom 10 team in cap hell into what looks like a real contender 3 years in with a solid pipeline of young players filtering in to extend the window so I'd grade him closer to a B than a C.

With that said, I think it's about time for him to hand over the reigns to somebody else whether it be Brad or someone else. Still too rigid with his strategy for my liking, gonna need somebody more creative to not only keep this team together but improve it with limited cap flexibility to work with and the monster extensions to the elite coming within view.

Unfortunately for the Oilers defence is actually part of the game, like 50% of it.

McDavid has had a good D corps (not great, just good) once in his career probably that was 16-17 season, the 7/8 other years he's had below average defensive units to play in front of.

With Ekholm FINALLY we are getting to like maybe the absolute bare minimum you need to even be in contention for a Cup, and I still see a lot of weakness on this blue line (we have 3 very raw players in Bouchard, Broberg, Desharnais playing important minutes, you look at almost any other conteder and their blue line make up is nothing like that and we're banking on Cody Ceci playing big minutes).

An Ekholm type player honestly should have been acquired 2-3 years ago, but our management team couldn't bring themselves to move a 1st round pick.
 
On a traditional Cup contender, a Bouchard or Ceci should honestly be the bottom pairing defender on the right side. It's only in Edmonton that the bar is set so low for D that we think that is supposed to be normal, it's not normal.
What is the root cause of that though? Bouchard was drafted 5 years ago at #10OA. Do you really believe EDM is the only fanbase that would expect a 10OA RD in his D+5 to be in the running for the 1RD spot? If you truly believe Bouchard is a 3RD at this point in his development, then I'm not sure how that can be blamed on Holland, he didn't even draft the player and that comes back to my original point - how is he expected to fix that? Bouchard at that valuation level isn't getting much in trade, so are we adding multiple 1sts for a Pietrangelo? Is that type of player even available?

The bar is not set low on D because the GM can't acquire top studs in trades. The bar is set low because we have D+5 RD that fans think belong on the 3rd pair, because we can't draft nor develop anyone of significance, which is not something a GM or org fixes in 2-3 years anyways.

Don't get me wrong, I think Holland took way too long to address forward depth, took rotating in like 12 different players to get a half decent bottom six. But in terms of the D situation, I don't realistically know what else anyone has as a realistic solution to fixing a 1RD problem.
 
What is the root cause of that though? Bouchard was drafted 5 years ago at #10OA. Do you really believe EDM is the only fanbase that would expect a 10OA RD in his D+5 to be in the running for the 1RD spot? If you truly believe Bouchard is a 3RD at this point in his development, then I'm not sure how that can be blamed on Holland, he didn't even draft the player and that comes back to my original point - how is expected to fix that? Bouchard at that value level isn't getting much in trade, so are we adding multiple 1sts for a Pietrangelo? Is that type of player even available?

The bar is not set low on D because the GM can't acquire top studs in trades. The bar is set low because we have D+5 RD that fans think belong on the 3rd pair, because we can't draft nor develop anyone of significance, which is not something a GM or org fixes in 2-3 years anyways.

Don't get me wrong, I think Holland took way too long to address forward depth, took rotating in like 12 different players to get a half decent bottom six. But in terms of the D situation, I don't realistically know what else anyone has as a realistic solution.

You gotta do better than McDavid only having an above average blue line 1/8 years here .... that's not asking for a lot.

Yeah I know it's "hard" ... that's the damn job though. If it was easy, everyone would do it.

Holland has added three good players in about 4 years of being here, Kane (which was a bit of a miracle fluke), Hyman, and Ekholm. That's still very slow moving, need to pick that pace up.
 
Unfortunately for the Oilers defence is actually part of the game, like 50% of it.

McDavid has had a good D corps (not great, just good) once in his career probably that was 16-17 season, the 7/8 other years he's had below average defensive units to play in front of.

With Ekholm FINALLY we are getting to like maybe the absolute bare minimum you need to even be in contention for a Cup, and I still see a lot of weakness on this blue line (we have 3 very raw players in Bouchard, Broberg, Desharnais playing important minutes, you look at almost any other conteder and their blue line make up is nothing like that and we're banking on Cody Ceci playing big minutes).

An Ekholm type player honestly should have been acquired 2-3 years ago, but our management team couldn't bring themselves to move a 1st round pick.
None of that matters now, don't really care about last year or the year before or the DoD or whatever. All that matters is the here and now and the team is as well constructed as its been since '06 and perhaps even better than '06 tbh considering the high end talent.
 
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None of that matters now, don't really care about last year or the year before or the DoD or whatever. All that matters is the here and now and the team is as well constructed as its been since '06 and perhaps even better than '06 tbh considering the high end talent.
Rolly was far more solid than what we have. But you may be right.
Haters are going to bitch no matter what though. Cause its edgy. And theyre smart and can see the future. And conveniently ignore almost every positive move.
But they're predictable.
 
People expect when you have an MVP player on your team that your team is among the top teams in the league. That's just how it goes. Look at other sports.

NBA, this year Nikola Jokic is being favored to win the MVP, what spot is his team in? 1st place in Western Conference.

NFL, Patrick Mahomes is the MVP, his team finished 1st in their division and won the Super Bowl.

MLB, Judge is the MVP, his Yankees finished 1st in their division.

McDavid is not just the MVP of hockey, he's having a generational season, we're talking like the best season the sport has seen in 25 years. Yet the Oilers are sitting 3rd/4th in their division.

Like which of these pictures doesn't quite line up?

Holland should be getting some heat, he has the greatest talent the sport has seen in a long, long time, and even has other players like RNH and Hyman having career years AND has the no.2 top scorer in the league on top of all that. It shouldn't be that hard to have a top team.

He made an enormous mistake on Campbell, overpaid Nurse, and has been taking too long to bring in a good defender (it's not like the Oilers didn't have 1st round picks in 2019, 2020, 2021, etc.). The bets on Puljujarvi and Yamamoto were extremely poor too. Criticism is fair, making a bad move for every good move you make isn't good enough.

And honestly, put Hopkins and Hyman on other teams and see how well they actually do. Anyone who thinks those two don't have McDavid and Draisaitl to thank for their massively increased output is shortsighted at best...

And for those who use the rationale that Pulljujarvi and Yamamoto couldn't produce while playing with those guys...it's because those two have virtually zero offensive ability at an NHL level (as we're seeing with JP in Carolina).

Holland inherited the best player and one of the best players of this generation. The team's success is very, very likely in spite of Holland, not because of him...not even f***ing close.
 
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Oilers have been doing that since Jan01,2023. They have been special despite Campbell.

We can talk hindsight and bash Holland for signing Kane and Campbell and not using the 10M on other pieces but this team he has assembled is the best we have had since 1992.

Well, first off, that's not saying much because our GMs in that span include a washed-up Sather pre-salary cap, a bunch of idiots, and Chiarelli, who is only like one of the worst GMs EVER.

And that's also open to debate, especially due to the fact that Jack Campbell is a glorified empty net and our D is far from elite. Post-deadline Oilers in 2006 might be a better all-around team. Even if there wasn't anybody as good as McDavid, the team had some real depth once Roloson, Samsanov, and Spacek were added.
 
Well, first off, that's not saying much because our GMs in that span include a washed-up Sather pre-salary cap, a bunch of idiots, and Chiarelli, who is only like one of the worst GMs EVER.

And that's also open to debate, especially due to the fact that Jack Campbell is a glorified empty net and our D is far from elite. Post-deadline Oilers in 2006 might be a better all-around team. Even if there wasn't anybody as good as McDavid, the team had some real depth once Roloson, Samsanov, and Spacek were added.
Not really... We barely scraped into playoffs even with the additions and players like Pisani stepped up out of nowhere to become heroes.

We were the underdogs in pretty much every series despite Pronger.
 
NBA, this year Nikola Jokic is being favored to win the MVP, what spot is his team in? 1st place in Western Conference.

NFL, Patrick Mahomes is the MVP, his team finished 1st in their division and won the Super Bowl.

MLB, Judge is the MVP, his Yankees finished 1st in their division.
Judge and Jokic have a combined 0 Championships. Same with Trout. Same with McDavid.
 
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People expect when you have an MVP player on your team that your team is among the top teams in the league. That's just how it goes. Look at other sports.

NBA, this year Nikola Jokic is being favored to win the MVP, what spot is his team in? 1st place in Western Conference.

NFL, Patrick Mahomes is the MVP, his team finished 1st in their division and won the Super Bowl.

MLB, Judge is the MVP, his Yankees finished 1st in their division.

McDavid is not just the MVP of hockey, he's having a generational season, we're talking like the best season the sport has seen in 25 years. Yet the Oilers are sitting 3rd/4th in their division.

Like which of these pictures doesn't quite line up?

Holland should be getting some heat, he has the greatest talent the sport has seen in a long, long time, and even has other players like RNH and Hyman having career years AND has the no.2 top scorer in the league on top of all that. It shouldn't be that hard to have a top team.

He made an enormous mistake on Campbell, overpaid Nurse, and has been taking too long to bring in a good defender (it's not like the Oilers didn't have 1st round picks in 2019, 2020, 2021, etc.). The bets on Puljujarvi and Yamamoto were extremely poor too. Criticism is fair, making a bad move for every good move you make isn't good enough.
You're aware that a star basketball player has much more control over how good their team is right?
 
Not really... We barely scraped into playoffs even with the additions and players like Pisani stepped up out of nowhere to become heroes.

We were the underdogs in pretty much every series despite Pronger.

Well it looks like they needed time to mesh, because other than Pronger, Roloson (.927 in 18 games) was playing really well and our top 6 was scoring. It was more than just players like Pisani.

And as for being the underdogs, that was the perception because of how the team did during the regular season. Come playoff time though, we beat Detroit 4 games to 2, San Jose 4-2, and Anaheim 4-1...and we lost the Finals in Game 7. That looks like a really dominant team to me...
 
smart
Not really... We barely scraped into playoffs even with the additions and players like Pisani stepped up out of nowhere to become heroes.

We were the underdogs in pretty much every series despite Pronger.
I dont think talking facts really works on this thread

Well it looks like they needed time to mesh, because other than Pronger, Roloson (.927 in 18 games) was playing really well and our top 6 was scoring. It was more than just players like Pisani.

And as for being the underdogs, that was the perception because of how the team did during the regular season. Come playoff time though, we beat Detroit 4 games to 2, San Jose 4-2, and Anaheim 4-1...and we lost the Finals in Game 7. That looks like a really dominant team to me...
May wanna educate yourself. Just a thought.
 
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Well it looks like they needed time to mesh, because other than Pronger, Roloson (.927 in 18 games) was playing really well and our top 6 was scoring. It was more than just players like Pisani.

And as for being the underdogs, that was the perception because of how the team did during the regular season. Come playoff time though, we beat Detroit 4 games to 2, San Jose 4-2, and Anaheim 4-1...and we lost the Finals in Game 7. That looks like a really dominant team to me...
Roloson was 8-7-4 with sav% of .905 in regular season..

We were huge underdogs in playoffs drawing league best RedWings with 124pts to our 95pts(playoffs worst)

Both SJ and ANA were ahead of us in standings.

We were pretty much the Habs of COVID playoffs who made the finals and not a powerhouse that anyone considered to be a contender.

This assembled team we have much higher expectations .
 
Roloson was 8-7-4 with sav% of .905 in regular season..

We were huge underdogs in playoffs drawing league best RedWings with 124pts to our 95pts(playoffs worst)

Both SJ and ANA were ahead of us in standings.

We were pretty much the Habs of COVID playoffs who made the finals and not a powerhouse that anyone considered to be a contender.

This assembled team we have much higher expectations .

And in my response I specifically said:
And as for being the underdogs, that was the perception because of how the team did during the regular season. Come playoff time though, we beat Detroit 4 games to 2, San Jose 4-2, and Anaheim 4-1...and we lost the Finals in Game 7. That looks like a really dominant team to me...

As you can see, I never actually disagreed with what you said about them being the underdogs. Your reading comprehension is iffy.

May wanna educate yourself. Just a thought.

Rolly was far more solid than what we have. But you may be right.
Haters are going to bitch no matter what though. Cause its edgy. And theyre smart and can see the future. And conveniently ignore almost every positive move.
But they're predictable.

I like how you forgot to use punctuation and then remembered...for the same word. Also, it's "it's" in that context. May wanna educate yourself on basic grammar and punctuation. Just a thought. Also, what the hell are you even talking about?
 
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People here still care about the regular season? I stopped caring about the regular season a few years ago. The success or failure of the season is defined by what happens in the playoffs.
 
If all goes wrong and we are out in the 1st round or all goes good and we win the cup I hope Holland just says "I done this long enough, time to retire and let a new generation step in" The guy is nearly 70 and should be enjoying retirement at this point in his life.
 
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People here still care about the regular season? I stopped caring about the regular season a few years ago. The success or failure of the season is defined by what happens in the playoffs.
Hopefully Oilers fans don’t become like Canuck fans did in that way. Where there’s zero excitement in the city during the regular season and they couldn’t even sell tickets to the first round of the playoffs because the fans kept on moving the goalposts to what they considered an acceptable and successful season. I guess it also allows fans to be constantly pessimistic and generally negative, which for some here is their MO
 
The only weakness is Ceci as we got rid of Barrie in the trade, but you don't really go out and trade for a 1RD, it's just not available and I'm not sure we get a better player than Ceci to slot in as 1RD for the amount of money he makes.

The Oilers absolutely don't get an upgrade on Ceci for $3.25M. The play is to move out Ceci and Kulak. For $5M ~ $6M the Oilers can upgrade on Ceci. If Holland can keep that to $5M it helps with the Bouchard contract among other signings.

Nurse - New guy
Ekholm - Bouchard
Broberg - Desharnais
Niemelainen
 
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People here still care about the regular season? I stopped caring about the regular season a few years ago. The success or failure of the season is defined by what happens in the playoffs.
Sure... How about we give kudos to Holland then for adding enough depth that MessierII doesn't have to worry about regular season.

The Oilers absolutely don't get an upgrade on Ceci for $3.25M. The play is to move out Ceci and Kulak. For $5M ~ $6M the Oilers can upgrade on Ceci. If Holland can keep that to $5M it helps with the Bouchard contract among other signings.

Nurse - New guy
Ekholm - Bouchard
Broberg - Desharnais
Niemelainen
Name the new guy that isn't EK..

Top pair RDs don't grow on trees and don't become available..

We are looking at Klingbergs , Paraykos and Dumbas of NHL .. Ceci might actually be the best RHD out of this bunch
 
Not enough support? Hyman, Kane and the bottom 6 (most of which are Holland adds) has been one of the better bottom 6's in the league tbh, a +12 with McDavid and Draisaitl off the ice is terrific. Part of why McDavid and Drai are putting up monster numbers is the growing support around them.

Also, can't ignore that Ekholm is likely the biggest trade addition the Oilers have made since the summer of 2005 whether it didn't happen soon enough for your liking or not. He's not just a "solid" Dman, he's a legit top pairing Dman locked in for 3 more years. That's a monster acquisition, A+ if you ask me.

There's some bad with the good as is the case with most GMs (yes, some real bad in this case) but he's turned what was an inherited bottom 10 team in cap hell into what looks like a real contender 3 years in with a solid pipeline of young players filtering in to extend the window so I'd grade him closer to a B than a C.

With that said, I think it's about time for him to hand over the reigns to somebody else whether it be Brad or someone else. Still too rigid with his strategy for my liking, gonna need somebody more creative to not only keep this team together but improve it with limited cap flexibility to work with and the monster extensions to the elite coming within view.
This is basically where I’m at as well. Holland has some good moves with some bad mixed in there like most GM’s but I’m not convinced he’s the guy to push this team over the top. He’ll never be fired, people aren’t being realistic if that’s their expectation.

This team still has a couple glaring weaknesses, a top 4 RHD and a goalie (no offence to Skinner).
 
Well, first off, that's not saying much because our GMs in that span include a washed-up Sather pre-salary cap, a bunch of idiots, and Chiarelli, who is only like one of the worst GMs EVER.

And that's also open to debate, especially due to the fact that Jack Campbell is a glorified empty net and our D is far from elite. Post-deadline Oilers in 2006 might be a better all-around team. Even if there wasn't anybody as good as McDavid, the team had some real depth once Roloson, Samsanov, and Spacek were added.
Honestly, I don't see a case that the 2005-2006 team is better. Take Pronger and McDavid away and I think the current team is better. As good as Pronger was McDavid is playing at a level perhaps only matched by Gretzky and Lemieux.

But any team can go on an unsustainable run. There is no chance that Pisani for example duplicates his playoffs.
 
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