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Fire Ken Holland: 2022-2023 edition

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Fire Ken Holland?

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MessierThanThou said:
I think the 2006 team had fewer holes on the roster. Our team is an offensive juggernaut unseen in almost 30 years, but our roster feels uneven with our defense and goaltending. In 2006, we had a HOF D-Man in Pronger, a puck-moving D man in Spacek, an actual great goalie in Roloson, and even a Selke winner in Peca. Stoll and Horcoff were having career years that made them a great 1-2 punch at centre, supported by offensively potent wingers in Smyth, Hemsky, and Samsanov. And yeah, Pisani's unexpected, fleeting brilliance helped a lot too.

Obviously we have waaay more offensive firepower than that team, or maybe any team since the 1996 Pens, but the 2006 Oilers, come playoff time, looked like it had all the necessary pieces. And remember that Roli went down too, yet we still made it to game 7. If Skinner goes down, we are beyond f***ed.
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Roli went down in the finals, and we lost. It’s not like he went down in the first round and we went on to win the cup. Our goaltending is in a much better place this year to deal with an injury than it was then. Our starting goalie before we got Roli had a freaking .880 SV%. As bad as Campbell’s been this year, he’s still been better than our other options were then.
 
nabob said:
Saying that a team is built well enough to be a very safe bet to be a lock to make the playoffs every year in the NHL is about the highest praise a NHL GM can get.
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If you're the 2003 Oilers sure.

If you're the 1983 Oilers or 2022 Oilers ... no.

With a generational player, plus another top 5 in the league forward, plus a couple of other high end players, "making the playoffs comfortably" is the bare, bare, bare minimum for a season when said generational player is in his peak/prime.

You should be a top 5 team in the league every year under those circumstances and a top contender for the Cup every year.
 
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Harry Curry said:
No human being grows on a tree. You have to develop top pairing RD. That's why an upgrade on Ceci is both needed now and doing so via free agency is only a short term fix.

This is about upgrading on Codi Ceci as Nurse's partner. Maybe Klingberg on a shorter term deal. Two or three years. I'll be shocked if he gets $7M aav again from anybody. No, Ceci is not better than Klingberg. Dumba is going to want term. Parayko is just a ridiculous suggestion. Why would anyone consider Parayko?

Whoever it is a shorter term deal is preferable. See if Bouchard can grow into that top pairing guy. Because as you say top pairing RDs don't become available.
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So you think "upgrading" from Ceci to Klingberg makes our defense great? Well, Holland was apparently in on Klingbergs so he was / is on the right track for you.
I say grass is greener on the other side and Ceci is just good as Klingberg with neither being a legit top pairing D.
 
Soundwave said:
If you're the 2003 Oilers sure.

If you're the 1983 Oilers or 2022 Oilers ... no.

With a generational player, plus another top 5 in the league forward, plus a couple of other high end players, "making the playoffs comfortably" is the bare, bare, bare minimum for a season when said generational player is in his peak/prime.

You should be a top 5 team in the league every year under those circumstances and a top contender for the Cup every year.
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If there’s no salary cap I would agree. If you have the financial advantages that a team like Tampa has I agree. It’s not as simple as you claim IMO

MessierII said:
There’s a massive difference between making the playoffs and being a perennial favorite to win it all.
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Correct and Holland has built a team that is a favorite to win it all (as much of a favorite as there is in a salary cap league that is designed for extreme parity). So he should be fired or given credit for that?
 
LTIR said:
So you think "upgrading" from Ceci to Klingberg makes our defense great? Well, Holland was apparently in on Klingbergs so he was / is on the right track for you.
I say grass is greener on the other side and Ceci is just good as Klingberg with neither being a legit top pairing D.
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If Klingberg would be willing to do a one year tryout like what Barrie did, taking less money than he could elsewhere, I'd love for us to try him. Hes on a bad team. That could explain how he looks so bad. He was Dallas' top Dman at one point. He wasn't a great one, but a decent one.

The bottom line is that if we identify top pair RD as a weakness after our final evaluation of the team, we should be rolling the dice on new options. We will be limited by cap. Klingberg would be a great option to consider. You never know how he does here. We thought Ekholm would be good here but not this good.

But anyway, there are going to be options other than Klingberg too. We may want another D-first guy instead. It isn't close to final evaluation time yet. By July we may like Ceci there, and don't need any D moves
 
nabob said:
Correct and Holland has built a team that is a favorite to win it all (as much of a favorite as there is in a salary cap league that is designed for extreme parity). So he should be fired or given credit for that?
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Last season I was extremely happy with the results. We made a legit playoff run and proved we were right there with the best of the best. This year it’s about continuing that trajectory and taking another step. We’ll see how it plays out. I like Ekholm but is it enough? Not sure yet.
 
The Nuge said:
Roli went down in the finals, and we lost. It’s not like he went down in the first round and we went on to win the cup. Our goaltending is in a much better place this year to deal with an injury than it was then. Our starting goalie before we got Roli had a freaking .880 SV%. As bad as Campbell’s been this year, he’s still been better than our other options were then.
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Yeah, but we still made it to game 7 without Roli after game one. I never said we won the other rounds without him...

And Campbell's stats are like 0.002% better than Markannen's were that season, but we know Markannen stepped it way up when it came time because we have the benefit of hindsight. Campbell is still a huge question mark.
 
LTIR said:
So you think "upgrading" from Ceci to Klingberg makes our defense great?
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Why ask such loaded questions? I never said Klingberg would make the defense great. I said Klingberg would be an improvement over Ceci.

LTIR said:
Well, Holland was apparently in on Klingbergs so he was / is on the right track for you.
I say grass is greener on the other side and Ceci is just good as Klingberg with neither being a legit top pairing D.
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Holland has been pretty well received by the fanbase. His moves at the the trade deadline have let fans pretty happy with his work. Not saying Holland is perfect. You are very unique in your view that Ceci is as good as Klingberg. I'm sure there are other fans out there that share this view. Just not many.
 
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Harry Curry said:
Why ask such loaded questions? I never said Klingberg would make the defense great. I said Klingberg would be an improvement over Ceci.



Holland has been pretty well received by the fanbase. His moves at the the trade deadline have let fans pretty happy with his work. Not saying Holland is perfect. You are very unique in your view that Ceci is as good as Klingberg. I'm sure there are other fans out there that share this view. Just not many.
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Ceci is better than Klingberg. Klingberg hasn’t been a good top 4 D in years.
 
MessierII said:
Ceci is better than Klingberg. Klingberg hasn’t been a good top 4 D in years.
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I was sure there were some people who shared that view. Not many, but some. The league apparently values Klingberg much more highly than the two of you.
 
Harry Curry said:
I was sure there were some people who shared that view. Not many, but some. The league apparently values Klingberg much more highly than the two of you.
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Do they? Klingberg got a one year from a bottom feeder this past summer. He’s probably going to have to take a pay cut this summer too.
 
MessierII said:
Do they? Klingberg got a one year from a bottom feeder this past summer. He’s probably going to have to take a pay cut this summer too.
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I already said Klingberg would have to take a pay cut for the Oilers to sign him.

Thanks for agreeing. If you are actually reading these comments...
 
Harry Curry said:
I was sure there were some people who shared that view. Not many, but some. The league apparently values Klingberg much more highly than the two of you.
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League values Klingberg the same as Gostebehere and Barrie. If you need a puck moving offensive Dman you go for one of these 3. All 3 require defensive sheltering.

Ceci if pending UFA on a seller would likely have fetched more than what Kling returned .. Ceci is a good Dman but is playing too high.
 
LTIR said:
Ceci if pending UFA on a seller would likely have fetched more than what Kling returned .. Ceci is a good Dman but is playing too high.
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Yes, I get you feel that way. What do you think Ceci would have fetched if the Oilers were trading him at the deadline? If you start with Sustr, Nesterenko and a 4th what else would the acquiring team have added?
 
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Harry Curry said:
Yes, I get you feel that way. What do you think Ceci would have fetched if the Oilers were trading him at the deadline? If you start with Sustr, Nesterenko and a 4th what else would the acquiring team have added?
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It doesn't really matter but I would guess his value would be close to a Gavrikov...
Not a 3rd Rd return like Ghost or Schenn and not a 1st+ like Chychrun or Ekholm not something in-between.. top 4 RDs don't grow on trees and there aren't many available if EK isn't available.
 
MessierII said:
Who cares? We’ve got in every year comfortably. Why do you care about regular season results so much? Would you rather be the Leafs? I don’t remember who won the eastern conference in 2011 I remember Boston won the cup. I don’t remember who won the presidents trophy in 1999 I remember Dallas won the cup. History is made in the playoffs.
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As an interesting aside both of those teams finished first in their division in those seasons, the Stars with 114 points. It would be nice to see the Oilers have more regular season success as it’s often a predicator of playoff success
 
nabob said:
If there’s no salary cap I would agree. If you have the financial advantages that a team like Tampa has I agree. It’s not as simple as you claim IMO


Correct and Holland has built a team that is a favorite to win it all (as much of a favorite as there is in a salary cap league that is designed for extreme parity). So he should be fired or given credit for that?
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Well how many times has Pittsburgh missed the playoffs in Crosby's career? It is that simple.

Playoffs is a low bar.
 
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