Proposal: Fire DJ Smith

[aragorn]

Chabot is a very good skater. But he's not a threat to score and is slow to make decisions (especially on the PP).

Ideally, Sanderson keeps developing and by the end of the season Chabot can play on the 2nd pairing and be insulated from tougher matchups. He'd be more effective in that role.

I disagree, Chabot has in the past been a threat to score & has shown on several occasions this yr in games he's a threat to score & almost has a few times hitting multiple posts. Chabot was also one of the members of last yr's PP that was one of the best in the NHL for the latter part of the season. What they miss on the PP is Norris' ability to score something DeBrincat has been unable to do so far this yr on the PP or 5 on 5.

Sanderson is going to be great, I have no doubt about that & he could pass Chabot at some point, but at the moment Chabot has the skillset & experience & just needs to avoid the big mistakes, same for Stutzle. DeBrincat has to show up, this team needs him to score to make up for the Norris injury which has turned out to be a huge loss for this team.

 

[JD1]

I have no doubt that Zaitsev is a "good pro". But he's a bad player. His decisions of where to be, where to play the puck, when to play the puck, etc create chaos.

Is he the sole reason they're losing? No. But there's enough of a sample size to confidently say he's not part of the solution. Both the eye test and analytics are overwhelming.

DJ has a blindspot, that much is obvious.

There's lots of blindspots on HF Sens.

Zaitsev is a 6/7 D that kills alot on penalties. He could certainly be upgraded, but he's not why we're losing. He's not why the PP went in the tank. He's not why Chabot coughed up a puck 1 minute into the Vegas game

Your best players need to be your best players. I hope or would like to think that is clear to people.

We need a lot more from Chabot, DeBrincat and Stuetzle. If we don't get that, it really doesn't matter what Zaitsev does.

 

[bert]

The problem is the way we play is very easy to play against. We let the other team gain the zone and establish possession in our end easily, and then collapse down low. This leads to us being hemmed in, long shifts, and eventually, gaffes. How many times do both defenseman find themselves behind the net after a 45+ second shift?

We should be much more aggressive in the neutral zone and our own end, and focus on pressuring the puck carrier. We have to youth and speed to play that way.

The way that Granata has Buffalo playing is what I'd like to see.

When they are playing well they are doing this as well as getting the puck in deep. I think he wants them to play that way, I just dont think they are excecuting. Alot of that has to do with the D men not holding their gaps and compressing the neutral zone.

Maybe they need a new voice? Or maybe they dont have the personel. They definitely got easier to play against from last year. Losing the puck pressure of Brown, Formenton and Paul was not necessarily replaced. Yes they are more skilled but the losses of Formenton and Paul are hurting right now.

 

[aragorn]

There's lots of blindspots on HF Sens.

Zaitsev is a 6/7 D that kills alot on penalties. He could certainly be upgraded, but he's not why we're losing. He's not why the PP went in the tank. He's not why Chabot coughed up a puck 1 minute into the Vegas game

Your best players need to be your best players. I hope or would like to think that is clear to people.

We need a lot more from Chabot, DeBrincat and Stuetzle. If we don't get that, it really doesn't matter what Zaitsev does.

Good post. It was stated on one of the broadcasts not that long ago that Ottawa has become a tough team to win against in the NHL & that this team is very hard to play against. They need someone to step up & replace the goals that Norris was getting on the PP & even strength.

 

[DaveMatthew]

There's lots of blindspots on HF Sens.

Zaitsev is a 6/7 D that kills alot on penalties. He could certainly be upgraded, but he's not why we're losing. He's not why the PP went in the tank. He's not why Chabot coughed up a puck 1 minute into the Vegas game

Your best players need to be your best players. I hope or would like to think that is clear to people.

We need a lot more from Chabot, DeBrincat and Stuetzle. If we don't get that, it really doesn't matter what Zaitsev does.

Both can be true. Chabot, DeBrincat and Stützle need to contribute more and Zaitsev shouldn't play.

Marc Methot presents the best analysis on Zaitsev. He says it best: he's a player that creates chaos for everyone around him.

 

[aragorn]

Both can be true. Chabot, DeBrincat and Stützle need to contribute more and Zaitsev shouldn't play.

Marc Methot presents the best analysis on Zaitsev. He says it best: he's a player that creates chaos for everyone around him.

I expect that JBD should be here long term & that should keep Zaitsev on the bench for a while unless or until another injury on D occurs.

 

[DaveMatthew]

Good post. It was stated on one of the broadcasts not that long ago that Ottawa has become a tough team to win against in the NHL & that this team is very hard to play against. They need someone to step up & replace the goals that Norris was getting on the PP & even strength.

We're 10th in the league in goals for per game.

We're 23rd in the league in goals against per game.

While we've had less goal contribution from some than expected (i.e. Debrincat), we've gotten more from others (i.e. Giroux, Tkachuk and Pinto scoring at a 44 goal pace each).

That'll probably normalize. Those 3 will score less, while Debrincat scores more. But expecting more than 3.45 goals per game, as a team, is not realistic.

Goal scoring and generating chances hasn't been the problem.

Defensive gaffes from forwards and defenseman have been.

 

[JD1]

Both can be true. Chabot, DeBrincat and Stützle need to contribute more and Zaitsev shouldn't play.

Marc Methot presents the best analysis on Zaitsev. He says it best: he's a player that creates chaos for everyone around him.

And he wouldn't be playing if Zub wasn't hurt

Thing is though, you can't really attribute losing to the #7 D men when your top players are sucking.

DeBrincat has to score

Stuetzle has to score

Chabot has to get his head out of his ass

If those things don't happen, well, I guess we can keep blaming by Zaitsev

Btw....I said all summer that the PP looked better last year when Chabot was out and Brannstrom ran it. We've talked for a couple of years about Chabot needing a partner. Right about now, what he needs is a partner that anchors his pair in our end, because he's certainly not anchoring.

 

[DaveMatthew]

And he wouldn't be playing if Zub wasn't hurt

Thing is though, you can't really attribute losing to the #7 D men when your top players are sucking.

DeBrincat has to score

Stuetzle has to score

Chabot has to get his head out of his ass

If those things don't happen, well, I guess we can keep blaming by Zaitsev

Btw....I said all summer that the PP looked better last year when Chabot was out and Brannstrom ran it. We've talked for a couple of years about Chabot needing a partner. Right about now, what he needs is a partner that anchors his pair in our end, because he's certainly not anchoring.

The team is scoring plenty of goals. We're 10th in the league in goals for per game. Eventually, Debrincat and Stützle will score more, but Giroux and Pinto will score less. It'll even out.

The problem hasn't been scoring goals. This team has the talent to score, and they have.

The problem has been overall team defensive gaffes and play. Agreed that Chabot needs to be way better, but team defense is where a coach can really have an impact. DJ and his staff haven't.

Hell, through the first 10 games of year 1 Pizza line we had scored 44 goals. This year through 10 we scored 37. We can score.

 

[swiftwin]

I have no doubt that Zaitsev is a "good pro". But he's a bad player. His decisions of where to be, where to play the puck, when to play the puck, etc create chaos.

Is he the sole reason they're losing? No. But there's enough of a sample size to confidently say he's not part of the solution. Both the eye test and analytics are overwhelming.

DJ has a blindspot, that much is obvious.

That's the main job of a 7th defenseman though, be good enough to not be the reason for a loss.

You can't expect your 7th defenseman to be the solution during a losing streak (unless of course he's the reason for the losses). That's on the rest of the team to figure their shit out. Chabot needs to stop coughing up the puck and be more assertive in shooting/passing in the O zone. DeBrincat needs to put the puck in the net. Tkachuk and Batherson need to be better in the defensive zone. Stutzle needs to stop isolating himself with endless curls with the puck. Those are all bigger issues than anything Zaitsev is doing right now.

 

[DaveMatthew]

That's the main job of a 7th defenseman though, be good enough to not be the reason for a loss.

You can't expect your 7th defenseman to be the solution during a losing streak (unless of course he's the reason for the losses). That's on the rest of the team to figure their shit out. Chabot needs to stop coughing up the puck and be more assertive in shooting/passing in the O zone. DeBrincat needs to put the puck in the net. Tkachuk and Batherson need to be better in the defensive zone. Stutzle needs to stop isolating himself with endless curls with the puck. Those are all bigger issues than anything Zaitsev is doing right now.

He's not the sole reason they're losing, but his play has contributed to the losses.

Like I said, he's not the only problem, but he's a problem. He's one that's easy to solve though, unlike some of the others. Scratch him.

Luckily, it looks like that'll be the case tomorrow. One problem hopefully solved, many to go.

 

[DaveMatthew]

So Pierre Dorion referred to himself in the 3rd person while giving the vote of confidence to Smith... that sets us back 2 years at least.

 

[Micklebot]

The team is scoring plenty of goals. We're 10th in the league in goals for per game. Eventually, Debrincat and Stützle will score more, but Giroux and Pinto will score less. It'll even out.

The problem hasn't been scoring goals. This team has the talent to score, and they have.

The problem has been overall team defensive gaffes and play. Agreed that Chabot needs to be way better, but team defense is where a coach can really have an impact. DJ and his staff haven't.

Hell, through the first 10 games of year 1 Pizza line we had scored 44 goals. This year through 10 we scored 37. We can score.

We can score at 5v5. I'd argue our issue is less the defensive gaffs and more the PP. We are 26th in PP%, while being 2nd in the league 5v5 in GF/60. We clearly have the talent to be better on the PP, fix that and we'll easily outscore the odd defensive lapse we have imo.

 

[DaveMatthew]

We can score at 5v5. I'd argue our issue is less the defensive gaffs and more the PP. We are 26th in PP%, while being 2nd in the league 5v5 in GF/60. We clearly have the talent to be better on the PP, fix that and we'll easily outscore the odd defensive lapse we have imo.

I think it's reasonable to expect things to even out. We're not going to stay 2nd in 5v5 goals, nor are we going to stay 26th in PP%.

The same can be said for individual players. DeBrincat isn't going to end with 15 goals, and Pinto won't end with 44. Despite that being their pace atm. Between the two of them though, 60 goals is a reasonable expectation (maybe 30 for DBC and 20 for Pinto).

3.45 GF/game is very good for this roster. We can't expect much more. If that's how we end, that'll be fantastic. We haven't averaged more than 3 goals per game since 2007/08.

So while I think an extra goal or two would have helped us get a couple more wins over the last 11, when looking forward and thinking about what this team needs to improve over the next 71 games to play meaningful games, offense isn't a big concern.

We know we can score. Can we defend? That's the question.

Hopefully Talbot back stabilizes things a bit more, Zub returns, we don't suffer more injuries, and JBD can step in full-time at some point.

 

[Micklebot]

He's not the sole reason they're losing, but his play has contributed to the losses.

Like I said, he's not the only problem, but he's a problem. He's one that's easy to solve though, unlike some of the others. Scratch him.

Luckily, it looks like that'll be the case tomorrow. One problem hopefully solved, many to go.

He is not very high on the list of issues if we're being honest with ourselves.

-PP sucks
-DeBrincat can't finish
-Stützle making costly giveaways (also sucking on the PP)
-No clear option to fill in for Norris has stepped up
-Chabot is struggling
-We take too many penalties

I'm glad JBD is getting a look, I've never been a fan of Zaitsev but he's taking a lot of crap for a guy filling in as a 7th d who's not really looked that bad. The above problems though have contributed a lot more to our loses than Zaitsev's 15 mins a night.

 

[Alf Silfversson]

I disagree, Chabot has in the past been a threat to score & has shown on several occasions this yr in games he's a threat to score & almost has a few times hitting multiple posts. Chabot was also one of the members of last yr's PP that was one of the best in the NHL for the latter part of the season. What they miss on the PP is Norris' ability to score something DeBrincat has been unable to do so far this yr on the PP or 5 on 5.

Sanderson is going to be great, I have no doubt about that & he could pass Chabot at some point, but at the moment Chabot has the skillset & experience & just needs to avoid the big mistakes, same for Stutzle. DeBrincat has to show up, this team needs him to score to make up for the Norris injury which has turned out to be a huge loss for this team.

This narrative doesn't really add up.

Norris had scored one goal in 5 games this year and we were playing well at the time of his injury. He was producing far less than Debrincat has in terms of chances and points as well. To blame a winger who is on pace for ~67 points this season seems strange. I think Norris is missed dearly but it's as this team's best defensive center.

We're 10th in the league in GF/GP. That is just fine. We're 10th WORST in goals against. The problem is that too many of our players don't seem to know how to play in our end. We play with no urgency for huge stretches of the game and dig ourselves holes we can't climb out of.

The team looks lost in their own end; many of our top veteran players have been bad defensively (Chabot has been the biggest culprit but Batherson and Tkachuk are also unreliable). The team seems to lack mental toughness. They can't bear down for more than a period at a time. I think we have a pretty good leadership core so, IMO, this lack of focus lands squarely on the coaching staff's desk.

If it's not time for a change now I think it should be done shortly unless we start producing results. That means winning more games than we lose.

 

[Cosmix]

Pens needs to hurry up and fire Mike Sullivan already.

That’s the coach for the sens.

Why Sullivan?

 

[SPF6ty9]

The way that Granata has Buffalo playing is what I'd like to see.

Hello mother, hello father, the Sabres are playing well under, coach Granata

 

[DaveMatthew]

He is not very high on the list of issues if we're being honest with ourselves.

-PP sucks
-DeBrincat can't finish
-Stützle making costly giveaways (also sucking on the PP)
-No clear option to fill in for Norris has stepped up
-Chabot is struggling
-We take too many penalties

I'm glad JBD is getting a look, I've never been a fan of Zaitsev but he's taking a lot of crap for a guy filling in as a 7th d who's not really looked that bad. The above problems though have contributed a lot more to our loses than Zaitsev's 15 mins a night.

Expecting this team to score more goals than they are right now is unrealistic, IMO.

Yeah, Debrincat's finish has been terrible. But Pinto's (and Giroux') has been excellent. Eventually, Debrincat will score more but Pinto and Giroux will score less.

3.45 goals/game is excellent. We can't expect more than that. If anything, that number will go down.

Norris is a huge loss. But I think it's a bigger loss in terms of our defensive play and ability to match lines than it is from a goal scoring perspective.

Overall team defense across 60 minutes has been bad. We take a lot of penalties because we run around a lot.

 

[Tuna99]

So Pierre Dorion referred to himself in the 3rd person while giving the vote of confidence to Smith... that sets us back 2 years at least.

I think he was doing it in the voice of his girlfriend "Pierre Dorion is making DJ Smith sleep on the couch tonight"

 

[Micklebot]

I think it's reasonable to expect things to even out. We're not going to stay 2nd in 5v5 goals, nor are we going to stay 26th in PP%.

The same can be said for individual players. DeBrincat isn't going to end with 15 goals, and Pinto won't end with 44. Despite that being their pace atm. Between the two of them though, 60 goals is a reasonable expectation (maybe 30 for DBC and 20 for Pinto).

3.45 GF/game is very good for this roster. We can't expect much more. If that's how we end, that'll be fantastic. We haven't averaged more than 3 goals per game since 2007/08.

So while I think an extra goal or two would have helped us get a couple more wins over the last 11, when looking forward and thinking about what this team needs to improve over the next 71 games to play meaningful games, offense isn't a big concern.

Well, the underlying numbers suggest that 5v5 we are creating the chances to justify the goals, we are 2nd in HDFC/60, and 4th in SCF/60. Our PP is middle of the pack in the same metrics at 16th and 18th, so I agree it will eventually improve, but it still needs to be better given the talent we have. It's an area where we have the pieces and should be better, defense is an area where we don't have the pieces to see a substantial improvement imo.

 

[HSF]

we lose a few more games and those analytics will drop

the sample size is small. What we do know though is that the team is sinking hard in the standings

 

[DaveMatthew]

Well, the underlying numbers suggest that 5v5 we are creating the chances to justify the goals, we are 2nd in HDFC/60, and 4th in SCF/60. Our PP is middle of the pack in the same metrics at 16th and 18th, so I agree it will eventually improve, but it still needs to be better given the talent we have. It's an area where we have the pieces and should be better, defense is an area where we don't have the pieces to see a substantial improvement imo.

Right now we're scoring 3.45 goals per game. As a franchise, we haven't scored more than 3 per game since 08/09.

Last year, 3.45 goals per game would have ranked 9th in the league.
In 20/21, it would have ranked 2nd.
In 19/20, 2nd as well.
In 18/19, 5th.

If we need to have a top 5 offense to play "meaningful" games, we're not playing meaningful games.

We don't have the pieces to expect that. If our plan is to outscore our way to 90+ points, we've already lost.

We need to be better defensively. Chabot needs to be better. Stützle needs to be better. Tkachuk needs to be better. Batherson needs to be better.

 

[Micklebot]

Expecting this team to score more goals than they are right now is unrealistic, IMO.

Yeah, Debrincat's finish has been terrible. But Pinto's (and Giroux') has been excellent. Eventually, Debrincat will score more but Pinto and Giroux will score less.

3.45 goals/game is excellent. We can't expect more than that. If anything, that number will go down.

Norris is a huge loss. But I think it's a bigger loss in terms of our defensive play and ability to match lines than it is from a goal scoring perspective.

Overall team defense across 60 minutes has been bad. We take a lot of penalties because we run around a lot.

Our xGA/60 at 5v5 is 19th in the league, we arent as bad defensively as some seem to think. Every team has lapsed, we've had some that were costly and as a result people are hyper focused on them, but had Forsberg made a big save or the opposition shot a bit wide, suddenly it wouldn't be talked about because some loses would turn into wins.

I'm not saying we are a great defensive team, I'm saying we aren't built that way and it's fine. We're more Edmonton Oilers than Carolina hurricanes.

 

[DaveMatthew]

Our xGA/60 at 5v5 is 19th in the league, we arent as bad defensively as some seem to think. Every team has lapsed, we've had some that were costly and as a result people are hyper focused on them, but had Forsberg made a big save or the opposition shot a bit wide, suddenly it wouldn't be talked about because some loses would turn into wins.

I'm not saying we are a great defensive team, I'm saying we aren't built that way and it's fine. We're more Edmonton Oilers than Carolina hurricanes.

Well that's a real shame because we don't have two of the top 3 offensive players in the league that are on the ice for 22+ minutes a game.

We can be better defensively. It's not a personnel problem. It's an attention to details and focus problem.

We now have to play .600% hockey to have a chance at playing "meaningful games" in March. We won't do that giving up 3.45 goals per game.

Do we deserve to be better than 4-7? Yeah, we do. But we're not. So what we "deserve" doesn't matter. Unfortunately it means we have to be even better than we thought we'd need to be over the remaining 71 games.