Proposal: Fire DJ Smith

[The Devilish Buffoon]

*Go the entire year missing top players, with clear non-NHLers dressed nightly, and then give up 11 shots in a win where we were missing our 3 most experienced, top D and are playing one of our top 2 goalies for the first time in weeks*

"DJ just cannot get results out of this group! Why aren't we a playoff team??"

I am not saying he is above critique, but the logic behind lots of the critique is piss poor and changes nightly to suit the facts of the game.

 

[JD1]

*Go the entire year missing top players, with clear non-NHLers dressed nightly, and then give up 11 shots in a win where we were missing our 3 most experienced, top D and are playing one of our top 2 goalies for the first time in weeks*

"DJ just cannot get results out of this group! Why aren't we a playoff team??"

I am not saying he is above critique, but the logic behind the critique is piss poor and changes nightly to suit the facts of the game.

At some point it gets beyond stupid

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

Are you qualified?

Absolutely not.

 

[Micklebot]

*Go the entire year missing top players, with clear non-NHLers dressed nightly, and then give up 11 shots in a win where we were missing our 3 most experienced, top D and are playing one of our top 2 goalies for the first time in weeks*

"DJ just cannot get results out of this group! Why aren't we a playoff team??"

I am not saying he is above critique, but the logic behind lots of the critique is piss poor and changes nightly to suit the facts of the game.

Injuries can't be used as an excuse because other teams also have injuries so even if many of those teams also see massive drops in the standings the one team that overcomes the injuries is proof that our team should be able to overcome them...

I don't think many people went into the season thinking we'd be battling it out with Florida, Washington, and the Pens for the final wild card spot, certainly not if they knew in advance that Norris would miss all but a handful of games or that we'd be down both NHL goalies for most of March, and nobody is saying Laviolette, Sullivan or Maurice are NHL caliber coaches. Sutter is in a similar situation with Calgary, Berube has seen the blues all but now out, it's a tough league, good teams and good coaches will come up short.

DJ and his staff have their flaws, there are better coaches that him for sure, and imo next year would be a good opportunity to hit reset and get a new voice with some different strengths at the helm, but the crituof DJ seem excessive to me

 

[The Devilish Buffoon]

Injuries can't be used as an excuse because other teams also have injuries so even if many of those teams also see massive drops in the standings the one team that overcomes the injuries is proof that our team should be able to overcome them...

I don't think many people went into the season thinking we'd be battling it out with Florida, Washington, and the Pens for the final wild card spot, certainly not if they knew in advance that Norris would miss all but a handful of games or that we'd be down both NHL goalies for most of March, and nobody is saying Laviolette, Sullivan or Maurice are NHL caliber coaches. Sutter is in a similar situation with Calgary, Berube has seen the blues all but now out, it's a tough league, good teams and good coaches will come up short.

DJ and his staff have their flaws, there are better coaches that him for sure, and imo next year would be a good opportunity to hit reset and get a new voice with some different strengths at the helm, but the crituof DJ seem excessive to me

This is way too simplistic imo. It ignores the total lack of depth we had coming into the year, even when healthy.

If we were perfectly health, no injuries, and were in the spot we are in now... that still wouldnt be a failure imo.

The way I look at it: if you average out the quality of our roster each game (lets assume there is an objective measure of this), and do the same for the entire league... does anyone really think we would be better than ~20th?

That's what I don't get. The argument that this roster has underperformed based on its quality is impossible for me to see.

 

[Cosmix]

Injuries can't be used as an excuse because other teams also have injuries so even if many of those teams also see massive drops in the standings the one team that overcomes the injuries is proof that our team should be able to overcome them...

I don't think many people went into the season thinking we'd be battling it out with Florida, Washington, and the Pens for the final wild card spot, certainly not if they knew in advance that Norris would miss all but a handful of games or that we'd be down both NHL goalies for most of March, and nobody is saying Laviolette, Sullivan or Maurice are NHL caliber coaches. Sutter is in a similar situation with Calgary, Berube has seen the blues all but now out, it's a tough league, good teams and good coaches will come up short.

DJ and his staff have their flaws, there are better coaches that him for sure, and imo next year would be a good opportunity to hit reset and get a new voice with some different strengths at the helm, but the crituof DJ seem excessive to me

In general I agree; however, DJ has not had a great set of players to coach for his tenure so far. I think he could be retained for his final contract season to give him a chance to coach this improving team; however, if the team falters in the first 20 games or so of next season, I would not hesitate to fire him.

I do not have the same assessment for Dorion who I think should be replaced asap because he has made some terrible blunders.

 

[coladin]

Injuries can't be used as an excuse because other teams also have injuries so even if many of those teams also see massive drops in the standings the one team that overcomes the injuries is proof that our team should be able to overcome them...

I don't think many people went into the season thinking we'd be battling it out with Florida, Washington, and the Pens for the final wild card spot, certainly not if they knew in advance that Norris would miss all but a handful of games or that we'd be down both NHL goalies for most of March, and nobody is saying Laviolette, Sullivan or Maurice are NHL caliber coaches. Sutter is in a similar situation with Calgary, Berube has seen the blues all but now out, it's a tough league, good teams and good coaches will come up short.

DJ and his staff have their flaws, there are better coaches that him for sure, and imo next year would be a good opportunity to hit reset and get a new voice with some different strengths at the helm, but the crituof DJ seem excessive to me

Take Malkin out of the lineup for 70 games. Do you think Pittsburgh is in the same position? Take Barzal out of the lineup for an additional 50 games. Same spot? NYR have no injuries all season. Take Trochek out for 70. Tavares.

There are reasons why things are the way they are. But to see where Ottawa is now, there can be no doubt that Ottawa is comfortably in the playoffs with 70 games of Josh Norris

 

[Micklebot]

This is way too simplistic imo. It ignores the total lack of depth we had coming into the year, even when healthy.

If we were perfectly health, no injuries, and were in the spot we are in now... that still wouldnt be a failure imo.

The way I look at it: if you average out the quality of our roster each game (lets assume there is an objective measure of this), and do the same for the entire league... does anyone really think we would be better than ~20th?

That's what I don't get. The argument that this roster has underperformed based on its quality is impossible for me to see.

I don't entirely disagree, we are where I expected us to be, though I'd argue our depth is better than people give credit, it was just decimated by injuries (and the Formenton situation).

Gambrell was supposed to be our 13th fwd, played 55 games so far, Brassard a PTO signing has 60. These were supposed to be the guys that fill in from time to time but are instead regulars.

NHL injuries viz has a game by game injuries differential, it's not perfect but it allows for an approximate indicator for how much injuries have impacted teams' rosters.

2022/23 net injury charts

Notes There will be inconsistency between my numbers and “official” team man-games lost (MGL) figures due to teams' ...

nhlinjuryviz.blogspot.com

You can view it by Caphit lost, which would skew towards older teams as opposed to teams losing guys on ELC, or you can view it using a lost Wins above Replacement stat.

By that LWAR version, our season is the 6th most impacted by injuries. Colorado, the SC Champs, and Vegas are the only teams with a higher net LWAR that are currently in the playoffs

 

[JD1]

Take Malkin out of the lineup for 70 games. Do you think Pittsburgh is in the same position? Take Barzal out of the lineup for an additional 50 games. Same spot? NYR have no injuries all season. Take Trochek out for 70. Tavares.

There are reasons why things are the way they are. But to see where Ottawa is now, there can be no doubt that Ottawa is comfortably in the playoffs with 70 games of Josh Norris

So I agree with you. Add Norris, everything else the same and we're in. But.... that's the April 1 view.

What's the October 1 view?

How many saw Stuetzle emerging this quickly as a 90 point centre?
Or Brady having a shot at 40 goals?
Or Sanderson emerging this quickly as a premier player?

We needed everything to go right. There's 3 things that went really right.

But too many things went wrong.
The Norris injury
The goalie injuries
DeBrincat's career worst shooting percentage

The above three things that went right went sooooo right that we're probably in the playoffs just on DeBrincat having a year with a career average shooting percentage. We're that close.

 

[PatrickEaves]

The Ottawa Senators have 7 wins this season in games where they score 0 powerplay goals.

 

[Tuna99]

Would of won last night of Norris wasn’t injured, he can score 4 goals a night from the outside and that’s what Ottawa needed last night

The Ottawa Senators have 7 wins this season in games where they score 0 powerplay goals.

DJ has done an excellent job of not making the playoffs.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

 

[bicboi64]

Take Malkin out of the lineup for 70 games. Do you think Pittsburgh is in the same position? Take Barzal out of the lineup for an additional 50 games. Same spot? NYR have no injuries all season. Take Trochek out for 70. Tavares.

There are reasons why things are the way they are. But to see where Ottawa is now, there can be no doubt that Ottawa is comfortably in the playoffs with 70 games of Josh Norris

I appreciate your point, but Pittsburgh is probably a bad example, Sullivan has gotten results out of his team, even during times when Malkin or Crosby have been out for expanded periods of time.

 

[LevelingSolo]

I think he's coming back, there are no whispers in the media that he's on the hotseat and the market and fanbase still seem bullish on this guy

Given that ownerships gonna take a while yet, this management group will likely be given one more year to see if they can right the ship

Which leads me to to believe that it's more of the same next year then , I just don't have faith in this coach or GM to help the team take the next step

 

[God Says No]

I think he's coming back, there are no whispers in the media that he's on the hotseat and the market and fanbase still seem bullish on this guy

Given that ownerships gonna take a while yet, this management group will likely be given one more year to see if they can right the ship

Which leads me to to believe that it's more of the same next year then , I just don't have faith in this coach or GM to help the team take the next step

Yip, I have the same feeling. We really need someone more experienced to take us to the next step. But alas, don't think it will happen. Watch us be in the same spot next year at this time.

 

[dmarc]

Our injury woes are so overrated, like outside of this stretch here since both Gs went down we've actually been quite healthy outside of Norris.

The reason we aren't making the playoffs is because we are complete trash at even strength, part of that is roster construction part of that is coaching. The former is getting addressed by bringing in Chych and our young guys aging up, need to have a solid G plan for next season.
Coaching will make a world of a difference, if we bring in the right guy I have no doubt.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Our injury woes are so overrated, like outside of this stretch here since both Gs went down we've actually been quite healthy outside of Norris.

The reason we aren't making the playoffs is because we are complete trash at even strength, part of that is roster construction part of that is coaching. The former is getting addressed by bringing in Chych and our young guys aging up, need to have a solid G plan for next season.
Coaching will make a world of a difference, if we bring in the right guy I have no doubt.

I mean the stretch without out two goalies was a pretty important stretch though.

 

[dmarc]

I mean the stretch without out two goalies was a pretty important stretch though.

Don't disagree but it was an uphill battle before then anyways. Like of course if Forsberg or Talbot had gone on a Hamburglar run it would be different. Forsberg was injured on Feb 12th we were one pt above .500 and behind Det, Buf, Fla.

We didn't get a miracle run down the stretch but leading up to that we were healthy enough that we should have been better is all I'm saying. Brady, DBC, G, Bath, Stu and Pinto will pretty much have played the whole year. D is mixed bag but neither Chabby or Sandy missed significant time leading up to our Gs going down. Zub yes but he's been so so this year anyways.
Crap goaltending and 5 on 5 play leading up to Feb 12th is what killed this season

 

[Sens Vader]

Just gotta wait for new ownership to come in, we will get a sense of Dorion and DJ’s magical job security then

 

[Ice-Tray]

Don't disagree but it was an uphill battle before then anyways. Like of course if Forsberg or Talbot had gone on a Hamburglar run it would be different. Forsberg was injured on Feb 12th we were one pt above .500 and behind Det, Buf, Fla.

We didn't get a miracle run down the stretch but leading up to that we were healthy enough that we should have been better is all I'm saying. Brady, DBC, G, Bath, Stu and Pinto will pretty much have played the whole year. D is mixed bag but neither Chabby or Sandy missed significant time leading up to our Gs going down. Zub yes but he's been so so this year anyways.
Crap goaltending and 5 on 5 play leading up to Feb 12th is what killed this season

I don’t disagree too much, only that had we had our starter back then we wouldn’t really have needed a Hamburgaler run to get a wild card spot. A even 3 wins and we would still be in it right now.

 

[dmarc]

I don’t disagree too much, only that had we had our starter back then we wouldn’t really have needed a Hamburgaler run to get a wild card spot. A even 3 wins and we would still be in it right now.

I wish Forsberg didn't get injured cause it would be great to know what we have in him when the games got tight, so many question marks in G for next season, will be hardest to address too.

Makes you wonder how big of an impact coaching could have on goaltending next season

For example
Nedeljkovic is Calder candidate in Car to waiver fodder in Det
Adin Hill and Gustafsson go from bad to good teams and have fabulous numbers now.

Yeah coaching is the biggest hole on our roster now...

 

[Ice-Tray]

I wish Forsberg didn't get injured cause it would be great to know what we have in him when the games got tight, so many question marks in G for next season, will be hardest to address too.

Makes you wonder how big of an impact coaching could have on goaltending next season

For example
Nedeljkovic is Calder candidate in Car to waiver fodder in Det
Adin Hill and Gustafsson go from bad to good teams and have fabulous numbers now.

Yeah coaching is the biggest hole on our roster now...

Not sure I would boil goaltending down to coaching, but I appreciate the approach.

 

[bert]

Injuries can't be used as an excuse because other teams also have injuries so even if many of those teams also see massive drops in the standings the one team that overcomes the injuries is proof that our team should be able to overcome them...

I don't think many people went into the season thinking we'd be battling it out with Florida, Washington, and the Pens for the final wild card spot, certainly not if they knew in advance that Norris would miss all but a handful of games or that we'd be down both NHL goalies for most of March, and nobody is saying Laviolette, Sullivan or Maurice are NHL caliber coaches. Sutter is in a similar situation with Calgary, Berube has seen the blues all but now out, it's a tough league, good teams and good coaches will come up short.

DJ and his staff have their flaws, there are better coaches that him for sure, and imo next year would be a good opportunity to hit reset and get a new voice with some different strengths at the helm, but the crituof DJ seem excessive to me

/Thread. If someone told me Norris was out for the season and the goaltending was going to be this inconsistent, injury proned and erratic I would have guessed they would finish around 80 points. I thought a healthy team just misses and was in the high 80's.

Its time for a new voice but some of the things posters around here blame the coach for are hilarious/outrageous.

Bottom line is with goaltending like the team has had this year its almost impossible for a young team to be good. A veteran team could potentially deal with it. But its really hard to be consistent with a different goalie in each night you have no idea what you are getting.

I am personally really happy with the development of alot of the young guys this year. Which I also dont think DJ gets enough credit for. Huge steps for Stutzle, Sanderson, Brannstrom in particular. Pinto has never played more than 33 games in a season. This is almost triple that and while his play in the second half has definitely dipped he has been fed big minutes all year which will be critical for him moving forward.

I also have to say its only been a couple game for Kleven but oh man. What a package. I hope they give him a ton of ice time down the stretch here. He seems to be getting better each game. This teams D core is very exciting. You win from the back end out follwed by depth down the middle the team has both. Scoring depth wingers shouldnt be hard to find.

A new coach that is more accountable and stronger tactically from a defensive stand point and some consistent goaltending and this is a playoff team next year.

 

[JD1]

Our injury woes are so overrated, like outside of this stretch here since both Gs went down we've actually been quite healthy outside of Norris.

The reason we aren't making the playoffs is because we are complete trash at even strength, part of that is roster construction part of that is coaching. The former is getting addressed by bringing in Chych and our young guys aging up, need to have a solid G plan for next season.
Coaching will make a world of a difference, if we bring in the right guy I have no doubt.

Our injury woes are not fully appreciated imo.

What has Norris's injury caused?

70 games of Pinto playing above where he was slotted and a line that's struggled defensively.

57 games of Gambrell and 62 of Brassard. Both those guys were going to play some obviously but Norris's missed 70 games has probably doubled what those two played.

It's not just Norris. We lost a very good young player in Formenton with zero return. What's that caused? A rotating cast of players none of whom were close to Formenton.

People say our bottom 6 don't score. Kastelic and Watson have 15 between them and that's decent for a 4th line. We've lost 146 man games on the 3rd line. Formenton's 77 and the 69 where Pinto played 2nd line. And the problem is that largely what's replaced them aren't full time 3rd liners. Spot duty is one thing. But these are full time positions we've lost. A guy like Gambrell can come in here and there for a stretch and not hurt you. The problem is we don't need "can't hurt you" we need "contribute" and he's not really up to that. And that's impacted Joseph.

We've basically lost 2 of our top 7 forwards for the entire year. It's kind of difficult to say our injuries are over rated.

 

[dmarc]

Not sure I would boil goaltending down to coaching, but I appreciate the approach.

Our injury woes are not fully appreciated imo.

What has Norris's injury caused?

70 games of Pinto playing above where he was slotted and a line that's struggled defensively.

57 games of Gambrell and 62 of Brassard. Both those guys were going to play some obviously but Norris's missed 70 games has probably doubled what those two played.

It's not just Norris. We lost a very good young player in Formenton with zero return. What's that caused? A rotating cast of players none of whom were close to Formenton.

People say our bottom 6 don't score. Kastelic and Watson have 15 between them and that's decent for a 4th line. We've lost 146 man games on the 3rd line. Formenton's 77 and the 69 where Pinto played 2nd line. And the problem is that largely what's replaced them aren't full time 3rd liners. Spot duty is one thing. But these are full time positions we've lost. A guy like Gambrell can come in here and there for a stretch and not hurt you. The problem is we don't need "can't hurt you" we need "contribute" and he's not really up to that. And that's impacted Joseph.

We've basically lost 2 of our top 7 forwards for the entire year. It's kind of difficult to say our injuries are over rated.

Sure but thats a shit depth issue not a mans game lost to injury.

The fact the rest of our top 6 was completely healthy for the year (outside of Stu for 4 games) it really mitigates the loss of Norris to an extent.
Nobody else outside of top 6 and Brass sniffed 10 goals, this is a pro scouting depth guy issue, tons of guys are available for cheap, heck we may have even got better production from Soko or Crookshank but all DJ wants to do is keep plugging Gambrell back in and all PD wants to do is let cost controlled guys like Tolvanen slip by him on waiver wire, not an injury issue, pro scouting, coaching and managing issue.