Proposal: Fire DJ Smith

[asw]

Ya I’m still not over that trade.

Stutzle has given up four giveaways in the last two games three fo which ended up ended up in our net, not sure how that;s DJ's fault.

They didn't lose because of goaltending or coaching, they lost because they keep giving the puck away especially in scoring areas, Stutzle did it twice again tonight.

Does anyone remember the awful give-aways Karlsson committed in his first 2-3 years with the Senators? I'm afraid that goes with the territory with young, gifted offensive players. Nevertheless, I think that a better coach would have been able to convince Stützle to pick his spots better and not try to be too fancy in potentially dangerous situations.

 

[asw]

Pierre Dorion end of season interview in 2022.

“We need to play meanginful games until the end”

Garrioch and you can try and move the goalposts but GM Dorion set the goals himself… Until the end

The end is nigh!!!

 

[Golden_Jet]

Pierre Dorion end of season interview in 2022.

“We need to play meanginful games until the end”

Garrioch and you can try and move the goalposts but GM Dorion set the goals himself… Until the end

Now dig up the ones. from training camp, which would be more applicable.

 

[Sens Vader]

I wanted Dorion fired because he can’t pro scout worth shit, they hired Bowness and I’ve liked 90% of moves since.

I want DJ fired because he’s incapable of coaching defence. Fire him and get a proven defensively minded coach, or replace the assistance with someone to prioritize that part of our game.

I don’t care how they do it just solve the problem

 

[Tuna99]

Now dig up the ones. from training camp, which would be more applicable.

I’m just here to let you know the team goals for the season are set by the GM and Coach and not the beat reporters

anyways, in the spirit of making you look bad (and to remind you I’m paying attention so if I call you out best know I am right)

“We want to be playing meaningful games at the end of the year,” Dorion Sept 21 2002:

GARRIOCH: GM Pierre Dorion says the goal is 'meaningful games' late in the season for the Senators

"We want to be in it at the trade deadline."

ottawasun.com

 

[JD1]

Painting the discontent with DJ with the “expectations wildly out of line” brush dismisses a lot of legitimate complaints about mistakes DJ has made as coach.

Deployment, accountability and lack of improvement defensively are legitimate issues which should have been addressed by the end of year 4.

There’s a reason very few coaches get to keep their jobs after 4 consecutive years of missing playoffs, sometimes teams need a new voice to take the next step.




I wouldn’t want a Tortorella, Sutter or Boucher either. There are many other options. There can be a time and place for that kind of “win now” short shelf life coach but what the Sens need now IMO is a teacher who knows Xs and Os and how to teach them to a tee.

DJ seems to have done a good job with the room, sheltering them from the negativity and contributing to a tight room. Now there are other things the players could stand to learn.

It’s like a kindergarten teacher, their goal is not so much academics but to show kids how to behave in school and work together. They’ve got that down. Now it’s time to drill down on academics. That’s not a slight it’s a key part of development.



Thankfully our core is now mostly locked in and we don’t have to worry about that.

Ultimately I’d be very concerned about the character of a player who can’t be held to account for their mistakes. I don’t believe Tkachuk and Stutzle are those types. Their competitive drives to win are too strong.






I could definitely entertain an argument that the sens did just that with the D. Playing guys like Josh Brown and Zaitsev to the detriment of Brannstrom and JBD.




Do you really perceive this team as having a culture of hard work? They definitely have some hard working players but the effort has been very inconsistent. It is one of the central problems with the team this season. With Batherson and Chabot in particular, two core members, you never know which version will show up and both have arguably regressed this season.

We’re getting into dear leader territory with the “love and respect dearly” comment. I have no doubt they like DJ but everyone understands this is a business and I’m not convinced they’d rather keep DJ than add someone with a ring like Q or Julien.

You don’t need to love your coach, you need to respect him and see results. Players weren’t huge fans of Jacques Martin, but they understood he was a good coach.




Strict defensive systems aren’t the only way to win, granted, but a significantly greater commitment to defense is unequivocally essential to winning.

This team will never become a contender unless there is significant improvement defensively, particularly on the part of the forwards. It doesn’t make sense for Tkachuk and Batherson to still be as weak as they are defending.

The Leafs forwards show that it’s possible to be committed to team D while still being very productive.

Strict defensive systems are unequivocally essential to winning?

Read this. It was written 5 days ago

'No one fears a defensive team': What's driving hockey's offensive boom

'No one fears a defensive team': What's driving hockey's offensive boom

Steve Yzerman, the Hall of Fame center turned mastermind general manager, rarely partakes in media interviews. When he does, the Detroit Red Wings executive tends to play his cards close to his chest.That said, if the topic is right, he may share a pearl of wisdom with the world.Take his...

www.thescore.com

 

[Tnuoc Alucard]

Actually the goal was just meaningful games - you moved the goals post to “Meaningful games in March”

Why not meaningful games in April when they should be in the playoff hunt? Still have 7 games in April?

Was the plan to be out of it by March so the games in April were meaningless? Only wanting meaningful games in March seems like a stupid goal.

I moved nothing, I am just repeating what the Sens have said, and what has been reported in the media.

In any case, I was correct (in december) when I said the Sens would not make the playoffs, and end up around 85 points. I was correct when I said the sale of the team would not be done in January as most people assumed, I was correct when I said DJS would not be fired during the season, I was correct when I said the Sens "would be lucky to get three points" on the rest of the west coast road trip after losing to Chicago..... but all you can come up with is this?


BTW, in today's paper(s)

GARRIOCH: The Senators know they'll need wins and help to keep slim playoff chances alive

Shane Pinto doesn’t like to admit it, but he’s been doing a lot of scoreboard watching lately.

ottawasun.com

 

[JD1]

I'm of two minds on that,

On the one hand, that's something that should have been done from the very beginning, and arguably we very well may have felt that's why Capuano is there

On the other hand, it's my opinion that coaches should be bringing in their own assistants, idk that it's fair to DJ to have someone potentially second guessing him in the guise of being a mentor. I'd rather a coach being in the guys they trust, and ideally who fills the gaps in their skillset. That last but requires the coach to be self aware to know his own weaknesses, and humble enough to bring in people to help.

What's interesting about our assistant coaches is typically it's the head coach that hires his staff. Occasionally you see a team force a head coach to bring in new assistants but not often.

Given the experience that DJ put on the bench, he seems pretty secure to me. An insecure person wouldn't surround themselves with significant coaching resumes

 

[Micklebot]

What's interesting about our assistant coaches is typically it's the head coach that hires his staff. Occasionally you see a team force a head coach to bring in new assistants but not often.

Given the experience that DJ put on the bench, he seems pretty secure to me. An insecure person wouldn't surround themselves with significant coaching resumes

Yeah, I'm not too worried about DJ doubting himself, but I think role is important, you can bring in experienced guys as associates without it being in a mentor role. As soon as you start identifying a guy as a mentor, and put in place by management rather than chosen by the HC, it can change the dynamic, or at least I suspect it could.

 

[Bileur]

Strict defensive systems are unequivocally essential to winning?

Read this. It was written 5 days ago

'No one fears a defensive team': What's driving hockey's offensive boom

'No one fears a defensive team': What's driving hockey's offensive boom

Steve Yzerman, the Hall of Fame center turned mastermind general manager, rarely partakes in media interviews. When he does, the Detroit Red Wings executive tends to play his cards close to his chest.That said, if the topic is right, he may share a pearl of wisdom with the world.Take his...

www.thescore.com

Nice article. I didn’t say that at all though, in fact I specifically recognized that strict defensive systems aren’t required to win.

Painting the discontent with DJ with the “expectations wildly out of line” brush dismisses a lot of legitimate complaints about mistakes DJ has made as coach.

Deployment, accountability and lack of improvement defensively are legitimate issues which should have been addressed by the end of year 4.

There’s a reason very few coaches get to keep their jobs after 4 consecutive years of missing playoffs, sometimes teams need a new voice to take the next step.




I wouldn’t want a Tortorella, Sutter or Boucher either. There are many other options. There can be a time and place for that kind of “win now” short shelf life coach but what the Sens need now IMO is a teacher who knows Xs and Os and how to teach them to a tee.

DJ seems to have done a good job with the room, sheltering them from the negativity and contributing to a tight room. Now there are other things the players could stand to learn.

It’s like a kindergarten teacher, their goal is not so much academics but to show kids how to behave in school and work together. They’ve got that down. Now it’s time to drill down on academics. That’s not a slight it’s a key part of development.



Thankfully our core is now mostly locked in and we don’t have to worry about that.

Ultimately I’d be very concerned about the character of a player who can’t be held to account for their mistakes. I don’t believe Tkachuk and Stutzle are those types. Their competitive drives to win are too strong.






I could definitely entertain an argument that the sens did just that with the D. Playing guys like Josh Brown and Zaitsev to the detriment of Brannstrom and JBD.




Do you really perceive this team as having a culture of hard work? They definitely have some hard working players but the effort has been very inconsistent. It is one of the central problems with the team this season. With Batherson and Chabot in particular, two core members, you never know which version will show up and both have arguably regressed this season.

We’re getting into dear leader territory with the “love and respect dearly” comment. I have no doubt they like DJ but everyone understands this is a business and I’m not convinced they’d rather keep DJ than add someone with a ring like Q or Julien.

You don’t need to love your coach, you need to respect him and see results. Players weren’t huge fans of Jacques Martin, but they understood he was a good coach.




Strict defensive systems aren’t the only way to win, granted, but a significantly greater commitment to defense is unequivocally essential to winning.

This team will never become a contender unless there is significant improvement defensively, particularly on the part of the forwards. It doesn’t make sense for Tkachuk and Batherson to still be as weak as they are defending.

The Leafs forwards show that it’s possible to be committed to team D while still being very productive.

I’m quite confident Rod Brind’Amour, one of the coaches quoted in the article you shared, would agree with me that commitment to defense is essential to winning.

 

[Golden_Jet]

Nice article. I didn’t say that at all though, in fact I specifically recognized that strict defensive aren’t required to win.



I’m quite confident Rod Brind’Amour, one of the coaches quoted in the article you shared, would agree with me that commitment to defense is essential to winning.

If you watched Saturdays pregame, Bieksa did a detailed video breakdown on Canes system. Showed they play man on man pressure game, as opposed to zone. Very few if any go man on man.

 

[Micklebot]

Found some excerpts from Jack Han's systems book that cover DJs system, it definitely aligns with a lot of what I see us doing, but doesn't have the nuance that his more in depth discussions will cover. I'm not sure if the book itself goes into greater detail they way he does in other formats, if it does I might consider picking up a copy.

I think these can help focus discussion for those three critical or defending DJs system. Obviously we don't always employ a 1-2-2 through the NZ, or always use a cross corner dump for zone entry, but these are in his opinion our tendencies, and imo they align with what I see.

 

[Billy Bridges]

I'm hopeful DJ won't be coaching next year. If they insist on bringing him back, they should at least get rid of Capuano and bring in an associate/assistant coach with a better system.

 

[Bileur]

If you watched Saturdays pregame, Bieksa did a detailed video breakdown on Canes system. Showed they play man on man pressure game, as opposed to zone. Very few if any go man on man.

I did not. They’re certainly an fun team to watch, RBA seems like a guy you’d want to run through a wall for.

 

[Wondercarrot]

Found some excerpts from Jack Han's systems book that cover DJs system, it definitely aligns with a lot of what I see us doing, but doesn't have the nuance that his more in depth discussions will cover. I'm not sure if the book itself goes into greater detail they way he does in other formats, if it does I might consider picking up a copy.

I think these can help focus discussion for those three critical or defending DJs system. Obviously we don't always employ a 1-2-2 through the NZ, or always use a cross corner dump for zone entry, but these are in his opinion our tendencies, and imo they align with what I see.

These are great.
IMO it seems obvious we should be a puck possession team, and our D should be way more active jumping into the rush and activating far more often in the o-zone.

Our off the glass regular play to the other team is infuriating. It reeks of panic. In general we throw the puck away far more often than I would expect a team with our skill level to do.

 

[Micklebot]

If you watched Saturdays pregame, Bieksa did a detailed video breakdown on Canes system. Showed they play man on man pressure game, as opposed to zone. Very few if any go man on man.

I'm not sure that's entirely true, most teams are using hybrid systems, but a lot in particular are using man coverage when the puck is high. I believe Boston and Colorado for example do this,

 

[Golden_Jet]

I'm not sure that's entirely true, most teams are using hybrid systems, but a lot in particular are using man coverage when the puck is high. I believe Boston and Colorado for example do this,

When the offense starts moving around most defenders switch off, so not chasing.
If Boston and Colorado chase players around zone, then that qualifies as a few.

 

[Korpse]

Found some excerpts from Jack Han's systems book that cover DJs system, it definitely aligns with a lot of what I see us doing, but doesn't have the nuance that his more in depth discussions will cover. I'm not sure if the book itself goes into greater detail they way he does in other formats, if it does I might consider picking up a copy.

Should be noted that this book was published early 2022 so it’s a little outdated for how the team has played this season.

 

[Big Muddy]

Do any of you read other teams boards? If you have there is probably a couple things you have noticed.

One, in most game threads as well as the local broadcasts, all the fans and media of the other teams mention how hard the Sens play, how good our young players are, how deadly our special teams are. As well they say our GM has done a fantastic job of drafting and developing our talent.

Point is if other fan bases and media see our team as improving to the point where they anticipate us to be in the mix next year chances are it will be Dorion and DJSmith leading the way.
Secondly, you will have noticed that almost every team has a fire the coach thread.... Toronto wants Keefe gone, Tampa wants Cooper gone, and the list goes on. If most teams fans want their coaches fired how many will be?

Yes, I frequently listen to the other team's broadcasters when watching a Senators game. Often that's the only broadcast available to me through ESPN+.

I have also heard the talking heads saying that Ottawa's defensive zone play is weak and they will give up & bleed a lot of good scoring chances.

Just mentioning this because I think its a question of balance.

 

[Micklebot]

Should be noted that this book was published early 2022 so it’s a little outdated for how the team has played this season.

2023 edition just released this month, but yeah I think those excerpts are from last years edition

 

[DJB]

I’m very very certain DJ will be back as HC next year.

 

[Pierre from Orleans]

I’m very very certain DJ will be back as HC next year.

Opinion based or you hearing something?

 

[DJB]

Opinion based or you hearing something?

From what I’m hearing

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

From what I’m hearing

as long as The current regime is making the call .. makes perfect sense.

 

[DJB]

as long as The current regime is making the call .. makes perfect sense.

Just my own thoughts on this part but I believe had the Sens really fumbled down the stretch here I think Dorion would have seriously considering firing DJ.

But with how well we’ve generally played other than the first few games after we acquired Chycrun, I’d be shocked if DJ is fired now