Proposal: Fire DJ Smith

[BoardsofCanada]

What portion are you referring to?

I listened to just a few minutes from about the 11 minute mark to about 13:30, and in there York and Ryan were talking about how the forwards were leaving the d-men out to dry, blowing the zone, etc.

Exactly the problems that some people identified in the team months ago. And exactly the problems that good coaches don't tolerate.

York and Ryan also make the point that the Sens best players are young and inexperienced. They are panicking under pressure as young players inevitably do. Things are happening a mile a minute and mistakes happen. It's not from a lack of coaching or tuning the coach out, they just aren't ready yet. They're close, but they need to continue to mature.

Listen at the 15 minute mark. Bobby Ryan says this is not a coaching issue. He guarantees DJ is going over the mistakes with them, but in the moment, in the chaos when things are happening at light speed, young players will make poor decisions.

And for the posters who are saying DJ doesn't hold them accountable. What does this mean? You want DJ to sit Chabot, Batherson and DBC? You honestly think we would be a better team with these guys sitting?

 

[GCK]

York and Ryan also make the point that the Sens best players are young and inexperienced. They are panicking under pressure as young players inevitably do. Things are happening a mile a minute and mistakes happen. It's not from a lack of coaching or tuning the coach out, they just aren't ready yet. They're close, but they need to continue to mature.

Listen at the 15 minute mark. Bobby Ryan says this is not a coaching issue. He guarantees DJ is going over the mistakes with them, but in the moment, in the chaos when things are happening at light speed, young players will make poor decisions.

And for the posters who are saying DJ doesn't hold them accountable. What does this mean? You want DJ to sit Chabot, Batherson and DBC? You honestly think we would be a better team with these guys sitting?

Accountability doesn’t need to mean scratching a player but missing a few shifts would be a good start.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

What portion are you referring to?

I listened to just a few minutes from about the 11 minute mark to about 13:30, and in there York and Ryan were talking about how the forwards were leaving the d-men out to dry, blowing the zone, etc.

Exactly the problems that some people identified in the team months ago. And exactly the problems that good coaches don't tolerate.

Yorkie
2nd hottest team since Jan 5... streak is not sustainable.
Roster construction issues
Goalie issues
Players getting rattled (inexperience in pressure games)
Big changes and Improvements; Hope on the horizon; Season should be considered a success
Not realistic to expect them to win
Forwards blowing the zone .. cheating for offense
Real pressure effects how they react and play
Games at this time of the year is mental;
This isn't their time. This is their time to learn.

Bobby
Experience by fire
Steep learning curve , backs against the wall
Getting down by 1 and immediately starting to cheat in the games on the road
Bobby is positive that DJ is telling them not to blow the zone and cheat for offense... Players are young

I will say that a number of players, for sure Tkachuk and Batherson have been cheating for offence 95% of the year. There were a stretch of games in their streak they paid more attention to detail but their goto response too many times is to cheat for offense vs support with a defensive puck protection mindset. Although I am sure DJ does want that attention to detail.. it has to be enforced and its been problematic all year.

 

[HSF]

so then why is Branny the only one being held accountable? Why is the top PP unit together when they have let 7 SHG. Coaching staff is too slow to make adjustments. DBC and Batherson have 4 even strength goals since DEC 1. Why are we not changing up the lines to have a different look?

You brought in a number 1 defensemen in Chychrun yet he is still not running the top PP unit. Weird

 

[HSF]

Wally must be fuming!

Wally hates this team so bad. Smiling like a kid at Christmas over their demise.

He hates the management and ownership I dont think he hates the team

Its like Steve Dangle pointing out everything wrong with the leafs for years when they were a non playoff team. He was a fan but he wanted change

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

Yorkie
2nd hottest team since Jan 5... streak is not sustainable.
Roster construction issues
Goalie issues
Players getting rattled (inexperience in pressure games)
Big changes and Improvements; Hope on the horizon; Season should be considered a success
Not realistic to expect them to win
Forwards blowing the zone .. cheating for offense
Real pressure effects how they react and play
Games at this time of the year is mental;
This isn't their time. This is their time to learn.

Bobby
Experience by fire
Steep learning curve , backs against the wall
Getting down by 1 and immediately starting to cheat in the games on the road
Bobby is positive that DJ is telling them not to blow the zone and cheat for offense... Players are young

I will say that a number of players, for sure Tkachuk and Batherson have been cheating for offence 95% of the year. There were a stretch of games in their streak they paid more attention to detail but their goto response too many times is to cheat for offense vs support with a defensive puck protection mindset. Although I am sure DJ does want that attention to detail.. it has to be enforced and its been problematic all year.

Thanks for providing the notes.

All great points by Yorkie

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

He hates the management and ownership I dont think he hates the team

Its like Steve Dangle pointing out everything wrong with the leafs for years when they were a non playoff team. He was a fan but he wanted change

He hates the team. He is not a Sens fan.

EDITED

 

[HSF]

He hates the team. He is not a Sens fan.

EDITED

weird to take personal shots like that at someone

arent you a moderator on this site?

 

[FunkySeeFunkyDoo]

....

And for the posters who are saying DJ doesn't hold them accountable. What does this mean? You want DJ to sit Chabot, Batherson and DBC? You honestly think we would be a better team with these guys sitting?

Not permanently, but on nights when they've not played properly you drop them down a line or two, or have them miss out on PP time.

At this time in the season, when you need to win every game, it's unlikely that any coach would do it. But if he'd straightened them out back in November, it wouldn't be a problem now.

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

weird to take personal shots like that at someone

arent you a moderator on this site?

What does that have to do with anything? Am I a priest bound to some higher standard?

Wally takes personal shots all the time. No biggy.

You are right though... it was a low blow. I can edit it if it makes you feel better. I just can't stand anyone that fakes liking this team, and loves to see the demise of the team.

 

[Bileur]

I’m ok with personal shots at Wally’s choice of cooking steaks “well done” but I’d leave his wife out of it.

 

[Cosmix]

Yorkie
2nd hottest team since Jan 5... streak is not sustainable.
Roster construction issues
Goalie issues
Players getting rattled (inexperience in pressure games)
Big changes and Improvements; Hope on the horizon; Season should be considered a success
Not realistic to expect them to win
Forwards blowing the zone .. cheating for offense
Real pressure effects how they react and play
Games at this time of the year is mental;
This isn't their time. This is their time to learn.

Bobby
Experience by fire
Steep learning curve , backs against the wall
Getting down by 1 and immediately starting to cheat in the games on the road
Bobby is positive that DJ is telling them not to blow the zone and cheat for offense... Players are young

I will say that a number of players, for sure Tkachuk and Batherson have been cheating for offence 95% of the year. There were a stretch of games in their streak they paid more attention to detail but their goto response too many times is to cheat for offense vs support with a defensive puck protection mindset. Although I am sure DJ does want that attention to detail.. it has to be enforced and its been problematic all year.

I am not sure that DJ or other coaches have addressed the D zone issues as some of the players keep repeating them. I also think that the Fs leaving the zone early is part of the team strategy; it almost has to be the case since they keep doing it. Sometimes such as in the third period when the team is behind it makes sense to take that risk; otherwise no.

so then why is Branny the only one being held accountable? Why is the top PP unit together when they have let 7 SHG. Coaching staff is too slow to make adjustments. DBC and Batherson have 4 even strength goals since DEC 1. Why are we not changing up the lines to have a different look?

You brought in a number 1 defensemen in Chychrun yet he is still not running the top PP unit. Weird

Running the 2nd PP is sufficient for Chychrun at this time; however, if the PP continues to be ineffective, then such a change could become necessary.

 

[Micklebot]

My position on reasons and excuses isn’t incompatible, it is based on the definition of the terms.

Sure it is, you just are applying the words appropriately.

A student leaves home to head to class. Their drive usually takes 15 minutes. They leave home 16 minutes before class starts leaving 1 minute to walk to class. This day, they hit a bit more traffic than usual. They arrive 2 mins late. Is traffic the reason they were late? It is a reason. Their poor planning leaving no room for error is another, more central reason. As such, saying “I was late because of traffic” isn’t entirely true. It’s an excuse, deflecting attention from their poor planning.

Both are reasons, you've applied your own subjective opinion on one being more central than the other, but even here you're applying it to a situation where expections are not met, we made it to class on time, the expectations for the season were meaningful games, we're in them. There's no need to excuse a student who has arrived on time. Even in this hypothetical student situation you've minimized the analogue to injuries, all in some bizarre attempt to hold the man accountable.

I’m not ignoring injuries, I’m refusing to let people off the hook for other mistakes by letting them brush them under the rug saying “but for injuries”. There are other issues just as detrimental to team success as injuries such as poor roster construction, inconsistent player performance, questionable structure/execution of structure, inconsistent effort etc.

Nobody is letting people off the hook, it's possible to acknowledge more than one thing impacting the teams performance. Brushing of one of many factors doesn't hold people accountable, acknowledging injuries impact doesn't absolve responsibility for other issues.

Look, if you thought this team should have made the playoffs going into this year as contructed, well perhaps it's you who need to be excused for your overly high expectations or a poor evaluation of where this team was. No reasonable observer thought this team was a lock to make the playoffs, or even likely to do so, it was always a longshot. But let's not let them off the hook for not living up to unrealistic expectations, right?

 

[Beech]

Not permanently, but on nights when they've not played properly you drop them down a line or two, or have them miss out on PP time.

At this time in the season, when you need to win every game, it's unlikely that any coach would do it. But if he'd straightened them out back in November, it wouldn't be a problem now.

does anyone know if
1) DJ is a good coach
2) the Sens are a good team
3) DJ is not a good coach and the Sens are not a good team

there are two variables here. Without one being pinned, it is impossible to judge the other. This Sens team has never enjoyed success. This coach has never enjoyed success.

So what are we judging?

 

[Beech]

A student leaves home to head to class. Their drive usually takes 15 minutes. They leave home 16 minutes before class starts leaving 1 minute to walk to class. This day, they hit a bit more traffic than usual. They arrive 2 mins late. Is traffic the reason they were late? It is a reason. Their poor planning leaving no room for error is another, more central reason. As such, saying “I was late because of traffic” isn’t entirely true. It’s an excuse, deflecting attention from their poor planning.

Both are reasons, you've applied your own subjective opinion on one being more central than the other, but even here you're applying it to a situation where expections are not met, we made it to class on time, the expectations for the season were meaningful games, we're in them. There's no need to excuse a student who has arrived on time. Even in this hypothetical student situation you've minimized the analogue to injuries, all in some bizarre attempt to hold the man accountable.

this is rock solid Mick..we are talking the smoking gun, an eye witness a video tape and 2-3 bonded judges as witnesses.. Heck, this is even a confession.

In baseball terms Bileur hit a grand slam.

 

[Union2017]

The way I see it:

We have a group of good players that should perform much better than they are right now. So, either:

1 - DJ has lost the room and they don’t listen to him / don’t do what he wants them to do while he doesn’t know how to make them accountable for not playing his system; OR

2 - they are playing exactly how he asked them to play and we just keep losing because his system is not good

Both of those scenarios can only be dealt with in one fashion. Anyone likes to guess what needs to be done?

 

[coladin]

Not blaming the coach.

But a new voice is unavoidable in the offseason.

 

[Union2017]

We can also say “f@ck it Dude, let’s go bowling” and just continue with the same old next year. For some reason I don’t think the new owners will do that, though

Not blaming the coach.

But a new voice is unavoidable in the offseason.

So who are you blaming?

 

[bert]

Accountability doesn’t need to mean scratching a player but missing a few shifts would be a good start.

Agreed.

 

[Beech]

The way I see it:

We have a group of good players that should perform much better than they are right now. So, either:

1 - DJ has lost the room and they don’t listen to him / don’t do what he wants them to do while he doesn’t know how to make them accountable for not playing his system; OR

2 - they are playing exactly how he asked them to play and we just keep losing because his system is not good

Both of those scenarios can only be dealt with in one fashion. Anyone likes to guess what needs to be done?

it is impossible to know. Reference is everything.

If DJ had taken over the Avalanch this year and they are doing poorly. we say DJ.

But he took over a rebuilding team and he has no history. We have no idea of where issues lie.. no idea of which is the moving and which is the stationary object!!.

 

[Union2017]

it is impossible to know. Reference is everything.

If DJ had taken over the Avalanch this year and they are doing poorly. we say DJ.

But he took over a rebuilding team and he has no history. We have no idea of were issues lie.. no idea of which is the moving and which is the stationary object!!.

Stu is moving. Batherson not so much. Chabot is falling all over the place.

Seriously though. We know Giroux, we know Chychrun, we’ve seen Tkachuk and DeBrincat and what they can do. We know Zub. How much time do we need to evaluate these players. Let’s look again at our PP. Do we really believe that the PP with Stu, Giroux, DeBrincat, Tkachuk, Chychrun and even Batherson, Chabot, Pinto (I won’t say Sanderson cause he is a rookie) is not good enough and sucks so much that it gets scored on now ? I don’t accept that.

 

[Beech]

Stu is moving. Batherson not so much. Chabot is falling all over the place.

Seriously though. We know Giroux, we know Chychrun, we’ve seen Tkachuk and DeBrincat and what they can do. We know Zub. How much time do we need to evaluate these players. Let’s look again at our PP. Do we really believe that the PP with Stu, Giroux, DeBrincat, Tkachuk, Chychrun and even Batherson, Chabot, Pinto (I won’t say Sanderson cause he is a rookie) is not good enough and sucks so much that it gets scored on now ? I don’t accept that

I hear you, but I partially disagree. We are still in the: Is he a good coach or not?

no prior history and he did not take over a mature team.. When I think of Boston, of Vegas of the 2-3 other mature teams. Then I see this team and the Habs and the Sabers, etc.. Zero frame of reference.

No experienced coach to measure against and no recent team success to condemn the coach over.

How are we ever going to know where faults lie? Unless a new coach walks in, one with a recent history of success.. we have no idea.

 

[swiftwin]

So who are you blaming?

Like Bobby Ryan and Yorkie said, Inexperience.

 

[bert]

Yorkie
2nd hottest team since Jan 5... streak is not sustainable.
Roster construction issues
Goalie issues
Players getting rattled (inexperience in pressure games)
Big changes and Improvements; Hope on the horizon; Season should be considered a success
Not realistic to expect them to win
Forwards blowing the zone .. cheating for offense
Real pressure effects how they react and play
Games at this time of the year is mental;
This isn't their time. This is their time to learn.

Bobby
Experience by fire
Steep learning curve , backs against the wall
Getting down by 1 and immediately starting to cheat in the games on the road
Bobby is positive that DJ is telling them not to blow the zone and cheat for offense... Players are young

I will say that a number of players, for sure Tkachuk and Batherson have been cheating for offence 95% of the year. There were a stretch of games in their streak they paid more attention to detail but their goto response too many times is to cheat for offense vs support with a defensive puck protection mindset. Although I am sure DJ does want that attention to detail.. it has to be enforced and its been problematic all year.

The bolded is what I noticed. They arent sticking with the game plan and are cheating as soon as they get down. The game plan is quite clearly to play a heavy forcheck, pucks in deep, physical play. Which is honestly very hard to keep up over 82 games. Especially on the road when you arent getting the energy from the crowd. I think its a pretty good example of a team that at this point can only win one way. I do think having such inexperience in nets creates a lack of trust from the players which can also get a team away from its game plan. The goalie injuries are equally as psychological for the team as they are performance based.

This is where DJ needs to evolve. They have to find a way to win on the road that is consistent. He doesn't have a game plan for that it appears. Which is structure and attention to detail based. But its also a young team its hard to get them to stay on an even keel at all times. Especially because their best hockey is played when they are full of emotion. Jacques Martins would help in this regard, he would be a great assistant for DJ in my opinion.

This is why I do think they need a new voice. But I dont want them to lose what they have when they do play with emotion. But that can only be 20% of the time no team can keep that up.

 

[coladin]

We can also say “f@ck it Dude, let’s go bowling” and just continue with the same old next year. For some reason I don’t think the new owners will do that, though


So who are you blaming?

Players not executing. And they are not doing it on pupose. It comes from a good place, which makes it hard to fix. They desperately want to win for themselves, for us, for the city, etc... and they are absolutely choking right now. I don't think DJ is telling the players to cheat and perform flybys. DJ is trying to make them accountable to each other, and they like each other too much to do that right now. Part of maturing. Part of the process.

For people wanting DJ to bench players, well, there aren't enough players in the system to fill who would need to be benched. It doesn't work like that. Brady soft on Myers and it is 1-0. Bench him?