Proposal: Fire DJ Smith

[Micklebot]

Well I guess we'll have to debate the meaning of meaningful then. The poster was implying that by not being mathematically eliminated by now is what the Sens management was hoping for. Right now it looks like it could be 5-6 "meaningful" games followed by playing out the string for the last dozen . My idea that meaningful meant the Sens would be competing for a potential playoff spot right up to the last 4-5 games.

I suppose if you want to move your goalposts we can go there, though you're pretty much doing a full 180 at this point saying meaningful games was an overly low bar to now saying it should mean right in it till the final 4 or 5 games (all of which are in April btw). The truth is most prognosticators had us finishing on the outside, those that assigned a final pts tended to have us in the 80s. So if anything the bar management set was too high if we want to go by your competing for a potential playoff spot right up to the last 4-5 games

But again, even if we do go down the road of defining meaningful in March you're not really being honest here, meaningful games in march means a legitimate chance come March even if we aren't favorites, back to back regulation loses unfortunately have really made things look grim, but prior to this weekend we were right in the thick of things for that final wildcard spot with the 9th best pts percentage, a short win streak and we could be right back there.

 

[Ice-Tray]

this is rock solid Mick..we are talking the smoking gun, an eye witness a video tape and 2-3 bonded judges as witnesses.. Heck, this is even a confession.

In baseball terms Bileur hit a grand slam.

Not really. The analogy should have the young man arrive to class on time, since expectations have been met. Traffic, or poor time management, is the reason why he wasn’t early.

Fun back and forth to follow lol

 

[YouGotAStuGoing]

Not really. The analogy should have the young man arrive to class on time, since expectations have been met. Traffic, or poor time management, is the reason why he wasn’t early.

Fun back and forth to follow lol

An expectation of no injuries in a season is pretty far from reasonable, in the same sense that leaving one minute of wiggle room isn't exactly reasonable.

EDIT: Which is not to say I hold the team tremendously accountable for it. I think the positive strides they made in gaining back goodwill and reestablishing themselves as a serious organization bought them enough benefit of the doubt to forgive margin-thin roster building.

 

[Do Make Say Think]

Like Bobby Ryan and Yorkie said, Inexperience.

The core and coach have been together for a while. Our best players are young but this is not year 1.

At some point, when the same mistakes keep happening due to inexperience for long enough, it becomes a structural issue.

 

[Ice-Tray]

Those were very understated goals considering the moves made and the money being spent. Coaching always has the most impact in highly contested and "meaningful" games and I see the team floundering in that area right now. For example the PP has been floundering for over a month but DJ is reluctant to make changes.

No they weren’t.

Some fans got overly excited, but who was expecting the Sens to make the playoffs?

I cant remember on broadcast that had us making the dance.

An expectation of no injuries in a season is pretty far from reasonable, in the same sense that leaving one minute of wiggle room isn't exactly reasonable.

EDIT: Which is not to say I hold the team tremendously accountable for it. I think the positive strides they made in gaining back goodwill and reestablishing themselves as a serious organization bought them enough benefit of the doubt to forgive margin-thin roster building.

I’m not sure the team left ‘a minute’ of wiggle room to meet expectations though. I thinks it’s more that had we had a nice string of good luck we could have exceeded them. Still, I’m fine with saving that luck for a different year, and in the playoffs

Oh for sure. I mean if we HF one of our two starters available we might even be looking better regardless of missing Norris all season.

I personally think the team has done pretty well with our top centre all season, but we have stumbled without our goalies.

The kids have had a few good showings, but this pressure cooker would look a lot better with Talbot or Forsberg in bet.

 

[SquidNasty]

Pretty interesting stuff from Elliot Friedman on his podcast today.

You know, Ottawa lost the math. I know it's a very difficult road for them, and I just bet they're going to look around and say: boy, we just could not keep the emotional firepower going, we didn't have it against Vancouver and Calgary like we did against the Rangers, Detroit and Columbus. That's going to cost them at the end of the year.

And you know it was funny, I was having a text conversation with someone about DJ Smith on Sunday night and they were like: this is on the coach, this is on the coach. You know what I say? No it's not. It's not. And I know that
Kelly Hrudey feels this way, Bieksa feels this way, even though I didn't play in the NHL, I feel this way. It is my job, Jeff, to get motivated for what I'm supposed to do. I don't need you or Amil (producer)... When we hit record on this podcast, I know I need to be there. If you can't be up for it, eventually we'll have to go find someone else that will. I don't think you can blame the coach for that, I think it just shows the emotion of just how hard this is, how difficult it is to be great 82 games a year, you have no room for error when you're chasing the playoffs, but ultimately I think the players have to be ready to play. For whatever reason the last couple of nights, the Senators just didn't have that great emotion and edge. And if I was wearing a Senators jersey, I'd be saying that's not on the coach, that's on me.

 

[SquidNasty]

And you know it was funny, I was having a text conversation with someone about DJ Smith on Sunday night and they were like: this is on the coach, this is on the coach. You know what I say? No it's not. It's not. And I know that
Kelly Hrudey feels this way, Bieksa feels this way, even though I didn't play in the NHL, I feel this way.

It's worth noting that Elliot is usually receiving texts from people involved in the NHL while Hrudey, Bieksa and himself are in the media world.

 

[Beech]

Not really. The analogy should have the young man arrive to class on time, since expectations have been met. Traffic, or poor time management, is the reason why he wasn’t early.

Fun back and forth to follow lol

a pro hockey team should never rely on single scenarios.

effectively, like NASA, all scenarios and all possible "bad" things should be accounted for.. a team needs to say "what if on day 1, we loose 1-3 significant pieces, what then?".. The answer should be, "we move players x,y and z into these roles...make these changes..do this, do that and so on". Crises management.

This student should leave his home 30 minutes before. On a clear day, he can get there, park and sit outside the class room.. if he is a good student, he should be reviewing yesterday's notes. So now, if minor traffic occurs, he is still okay... IN THE incredible chance that extreme traffic occurred.. well then, that can be forgiven..

Josh Norris is not Sidney Crosby in his prime... Artem Zub is not Nick Lindstrom..

Josh Norris should have been mitigated against by better development of draftees from 2016-2020. Then his replacement would be there. His replacement could have been there if the 1/2 dozen FA signings and trades from 2018-2022 did not go bust. Zub's replacement should have been the off season acquisition that they failed to act on, or the 2-3 failed D man drafts from 2016-2020.

As for meeting expectations, which one
1) the rebuild is over.. that was 3 years ago
2) the hard work is done.. that was 4 years ago
3) FYOUS from 2021 and beyond. That was 3 years ago.
4) Judge us on next year... that was 1 year ago

The weather channel tells you on a Monday, it will be sunny and warm on Saturday.. If by Thursday they revise to, cold and overcast.. And lo and behold it is cold and overcast on Saturday.. did they meet expectations?

 

[Adele Dazeem]

Pretty interesting stuff from Elliot Friedman on his podcast today.

You know, Ottawa lost the math. I know it's a very difficult road for them, and I just bet they're going to look around and say: boy, we just could not keep the emotional firepower going, we didn't have it against Vancouver and Calgary like we did against the Rangers, Detroit and Columbus. That's going to cost them at the end of the year.

And you know it was funny, I was having a text conversation with someone about DJ Smith on Sunday night and they were like: this is on the coach, this is on the coach. You know what I say? No it's not. It's not. And I know that
Kelly Hrudey feels this way, Bieksa feels this way, even though I didn't play in the NHL, I feel this way. It is my job, Jeff, to get motivated for what I'm supposed to do. I don't need you or Amil (producer)... When we hit record on this podcast, I know I need to be there. If you can't be up for it, eventually we'll have to go find someone else that will. I don't think you can blame the coach for that, I think it just shows the emotion of just how hard this is, how difficult it is to be great 82 games a year, you have no room for error when you're chasing the playoffs, but ultimately I think the players have to be ready to play. For whatever reason the last couple of nights, the Senators just didn't have that great emotion and edge. And if I was wearing a Senators jersey, I'd be saying that's not on the coach, that's on me.

Whata dummy. Hey Elliot, if everything is on the players, then why the f*** should NHL teams hire coaches.
This guy has time and time again failed to adapt. His PP shits the bed, keeps playing the same 5 guys. Team gets a top-4 D, plays him with Holden on the third pairing.

 

[Micklebot]

The core and coach have been together for a while. Our best players are young but this is not year 1.

At some point, when the same mistakes keep happening due to inexperience for long enough, it becomes a structural issue.

Our top 4 centers to start the year had ~280 games of NHL experience combined, one of them only had about 40 of their 132 career games as a center, another one of the only played 8 games this year.

We were really inexperienced up the middle, and what experience we have is coming from depth players moving up due to injuries.

Center is pretty much the most important position, followed by D where we had a rookie in our top 4, and we lost Zub for extended,
stretches.

Inexperience was definitely a big factor and why the goal was meaningful games in March, not playoffs.

We also had a lot of turnover, Giroux, DeBrincat, Sanderson, essentially Hamonic Joseph, and Pinto who'd only played a couple dozen games with the team, Kastelic, Brassard, Motte,

Lots of new faces learning each other's habits the system, in some cases a new city, ect.

 

[swiftwin]

Whata dummy. Hey Elliot, if everything is on the players, then why the f*** should NHL teams hire coaches.
This guy has time and time again failed to adapt. His PP shits the bed, keeps playing the same 5 guys. Team gets a top-4 D, plays him with Holden on the third pairing.

Bobby Ryan is a dummy
Jason York is a dummy
Kevin Bieksa is a dummy
Kelly Hrudey is a dummy
Elliot Friedman is a dummy
All the people who texted Friedman are dummies

But @Adele Dazeem on hfboards has it all figured out.

 

[SensHulk]

things aren’t changing so are you realistically going to trade away 23 players to fix the issue? Is it really down to 1-2 players? I highly doubt it.

Ppl want to defend DJ and it’s fine but the reality in professional sports is that it has always been easier to replace the coach. If players are t up for it now, I fail to see how they’re going to suddenly get up for things with the status quo. And the one thing that has had plenty of opportunity here is DJ.

It’s time to go get an established coach, one we haven’t had since Bryan Murray.

 

[Sens Vader]

I think regardless if you think DJ is a good coach or not a new voice/strategy is the right move

4 seasons is a long time, a good culture is built here. Take it to the next level with a proven coach

 

[SensHulk]

Pretty interesting stuff from Elliot Friedman on his podcast today.

You know, Ottawa lost the math. I know it's a very difficult road for them, and I just bet they're going to look around and say: boy, we just could not keep the emotional firepower going, we didn't have it against Vancouver and Calgary like we did against the Rangers, Detroit and Columbus. That's going to cost them at the end of the year.

And you know it was funny, I was having a text conversation with someone about DJ Smith on Sunday night and they were like: this is on the coach, this is on the coach. You know what I say? No it's not. It's not. And I know that
Kelly Hrudey feels this way, Bieksa feels this way, even though I didn't play in the NHL, I feel this way. It is my job, Jeff, to get motivated for what I'm supposed to do. I don't need you or Amil (producer)... When we hit record on this podcast, I know I need to be there. If you can't be up for it, eventually we'll have to go find someone else that will. I don't think you can blame the coach for that, I think it just shows the emotion of just how hard this is, how difficult it is to be great 82 games a year, you have no room for error when you're chasing the playoffs, but ultimately I think the players have to be ready to play. For whatever reason the last couple of nights, the Senators just didn't have that great emotion and edge. And if I was wearing a Senators jersey, I'd be saying that's not on the coach, that's on me.

I’m a bit perplexed because I haven’t seen this level of Defence for other coaches that did get fired and you could have made the same argument then. It’s a results oriented business, I think everyone just wants DJ to work out so freakin badly and I don’t get why….

 

[Adele Dazeem]

Bobby Ryan is a dummy
Jason York is a dummy
Kevin Bieksa is a dummy
Kelly Hrudey is a dummy
Elliot Friedman is a dummy
All the people who texted Friedman are dummies

But @Adele Dazeem on hfboards has it all figured out.

Bobby Ryan is actually a dummy for many reasons
Jason York also has no clue, hence why no team offered him a position post-playing career
Kevin Bieksa...no comment
Kelly Hrudey probably the biggest moron on the list
Elliot Friedman, a plant by the NHL because he has connections, zero knowledge

Yes, I do have it figured out. DJ Smith is not an NHL level coach. He's lucky he has such a young talented team, and even then he mismanages them.

I’m a bit perplexed because I haven’t seen this level of Defence for other coaches that did get fired and you could have made the same argument then. It’s a results oriented business, I think everyone just wants DJ to work out so freakin badly and I don’t get why….

My guess is that Dorion is redeeming some media points and trying to save his coach after new ownership takes charge.
What he doesn't know (or maybe being aloof to it) is the fact that he'll also get the boot!

 

[Union2017]

Tkachuk-Stutzle-Giroux
DeBrincat-Pinto-Batherson

Chabot-Zub
Sanderson-Chychrun

DJ-Capuano

Find the weakest links

 

[Micklebot]

Tkachuk-Stutzle-Giroux
DeBrincat-Pinto-Batherson

Chabot-Zub
Sanderson-Chychrun

DJ-Capuano

Find the weakest links

Well your lineup doesn't have a goaltender so I think that could present some problems.... The other team will probably find a way to exploit that.

 

[Union2017]

I’m a bit perplexed because I haven’t seen this level of Defence for other coaches that did get fired and you could have made the same argument then. It’s a results oriented business, I think everyone just wants DJ to work out so freakin badly and I don’t get why….

I personally wouldn’t care if Bruce Garrioch was our coach as long as he makes our team better. Couldn’t care less who is on that bench as long as we perform. I am sick and tired of years of being bad and everyone defending DJ. Something needs to happen. Either we start re-building again or we say we have a good team but the coach sucks. Who else is there to blame for how we play? Zamboni driver? Cafeteria lady?

Not enough of experience? Let’s see Giroux, DeBrincat, now Chychrun, Brassard (yup he is on our PP, don’t tell me he is a scrub), how long did Chuky and Chabot and Zub have been playing now?

 

[L'Aveuglette]

Bobby Ryan is a dummy
Jason York is a dummy
Kevin Bieksa is a dummy
Kelly Hrudey is a dummy
Elliot Friedman is a dummy
All the people who texted Friedman are dummies

But @Adele Dazeem on hfboards has it all figured out.

Elliot is legitimately an idiot and it's hilarious that you bring up every other huge idiot in the media to try and make a point loll.

 

[DueDiligence]

I suppose if you want to move your goalposts we can go there, though you're pretty much doing a full 180 at this point saying meaningful games was an overly low bar to now saying it should mean right in it till the final 4 or 5 games (all of which are in April btw). The truth is most prognosticators had us finishing on the outside, those that assigned a final pts tended to have us in the 80s. So if anything the bar management set was too high if we want to go by your competing for a potential playoff spot right up to the last 4-5 games

But again, even if we do go down the road of defining meaningful in March you're not really being honest here, meaningful games in march means a legitimate chance come March even if we aren't favorites, back to back regulation loses unfortunately have really made things look grim, but prior to this weekend we were right in the thick of things for that final wildcard spot with the 9th best pts percentage, a short win streak and we could be right back there.

Well you are setting a very low bar if you want games in early March just to mean the Sens have a slight chance to make the playoffs. Right now the Sens' chance to make the playoffs is 7.9%. By this weekend that percentage could be like 2% and rendering the last dozen games meaningless.
If that's the extent of success the team was aiming for than that's a BS result. Mgmt. may underplay the goal publicly to take the pressure off but you don't dole out all the cash they did and make the moves they did to have a slight improvement but with only a vague hint of a playoff race.

 

[Union2017]

Well your lineup doesn't have a goaltender so I think that could present some problems.... The other team will probably find a way to exploit that.

Oh I agree. But the goalies don’t make us create these odd man rushes for our opponents game after game after game. And not to even mention how every year we are not ready to play until December

 

[DueDiligence]

Some fans got overly excited, but who was expecting the Sens to make the playoffs?

I cant remember on broadcast that had us making the dance.

Not make them but make a serious push and get close. Getting fans excited for 10 days in early March is a very low bar.

Bobby Ryan is a dummy
Jason York is a dummy
Kevin Bieksa is a dummy
Kelly Hrudey is a dummy
Elliot Friedman is a dummy
All the people who texted Friedman are dummies

But @Adele Dazeem on hfboards has it all figured out.

And you are the Sens paid apologist.

 

[Mark Stones Spleen]

Our 5v5 goal differential per game is worse than last year, how the f*** are we any better?

That's with Stutzle completely breaking out and adding Cat and a PPG Giroux. We didn't lose anyone on defense either. Pathetic.

 

[LevelingSolo]

I’m a bit perplexed because I haven’t seen this level of Defence for other coaches that did get fired and you could have made the same argument then. It’s a results oriented business, I think everyone just wants DJ to work out so freakin badly and I don’t get why….

Honestly, I've said this before but I can't recall the last coach in this market who got more of a pass than DJ Smith.

There were constant hit pieces on Maclean, Clouston, and Cameron.

Coaches who had arguably less to work with) and weren't given even close to the same amount rope

 

[Wondercarrot]

Fascinating conversation here.
It took the NHLs 2nd best record over what? 2 months? To get us where? let’s see…3 or 4 meaningful games? lol (don’t get me wrong I loved them) but how about a reality check.
We are currently picking 11th.
We picked 7th last year, 10th the year before.

We now enter a very difficult part of the schedule, anyone here think after the next 7 games think we will be higher in the standings?

I like DJ, but for those people looking in every direction but his, is there any condition under which you think there should be a coaching change?
He’s already had a longer leash than any other coach with this kind of record over this many years rebuild or not.
It’s like saying coaches are irrelevant so why bother changing them. What exactly is it that makes DJ so exceptional in your minds? Track record in the NHL? Some strategy he is deploying? His in game adjustments? Bench management? Is he master of line matching?

What is so irreplaceable about DJ Smith, I’d be fascinated to know.