Proposal: Fire DJ Smith

[Beech]

Players not executing. And they are not doing it on pupose. It comes from a good place, which makes it hard to fix. They desperately want to win for themselves, for us, for the city, etc... and they are absolutely choking right now. I don't think DJ is telling the players to cheat and perform flybys. DJ is trying to make them accountable to each other, and they like each other too much to do that right now. Part of maturing. Part of the process.

For people wanting DJ to bench players, well, there aren't enough players in the system to fill who would need to be benched. It doesn't work like that. Brady soft on Myers and it is 1-0. Bench him?

take away: Pinto and Sanderson... the bulk of this team is at 200 (or close too) and more games
The additions this year (including the offseason) is Giroux, Debrincat and Chy...Veterans
2 guys are 1000 games; Cluade, Derek
roughly 5 guys are 600 plus game guys
roughly 10 guys are 200 plus

17 guys are 200 plus games...

Lines 1 and 2 are: Brady, Drake, Tim, Claude, Alex, Shane.
D men 1-4: Thomas, Artum, Jake and Jack....

10 guys.. 8 of which are veterans.. only 2 young guys...Pinto and Jake..

Youth!!!! I don't know....2 years ago, I get it.. today.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

The bolded is what I noticed. They arent sticking with the game plan and are cheating as soon as they get down. The game plan is quite clearly to play a heavy forcheck, pucks in deep, physical play. Which is honestly very hard to keep up over 82 games. Especially on the road when you arent getting the energy from the crowd. I think its a pretty good example of a team that at this point can only win one way. I do think having such inexperience in nets creates a lack of trust from the players which can also get a team away from its game plan. The goalie injuries are equally as psychological for the team as they are performance based.

This is where DJ needs to evolve. They have to find a way to win on the road that is consistent. He doesn't have a game plan for that it appears. Which is structure and attention to detail based. But its also a young team its hard to get them to stay on an even keel at all times. Especially because their best hockey is played when they are full of emotion. Jacques Martins would help in this regard, he would be a great assistant for DJ in my opinion.

This is why I do think they need a new voice. But I dont want them to lose what they have when they do play with emotion. But that can only be 20% of the time no team can keep that up.

I am not convinced DJ is the right guy to enforce the discipline it takes ... and he needs his leaders 100% to buy in and that has not happened. When Boucher was here he needed buy in to make his system work.. and he got it the 1st year .. Its an adjustment that should have evolved over time and has not.

 

[HSF]

What does that have to do with anything? Am I a priest bound to some higher standard?

Wally takes personal shots all the time. No biggy.

You are right though... it was a low blow. I can edit it if it makes you feel better. I just can't stand anyone that fakes liking this team, and loves to see the demise of the team.

cause you are supposed to enforce the rules of the board arent you? I can go around taking personal shots at people without my post being flagged by a mod?

Don't edit it to make me feel better. Edit it to do your job and enforce the rules of the board

Wally has his own podcast he can take whatever shots he wants. There is no code of conduct for ones own podcast

 

[swiftwin]

The bolded is what I noticed. They arent sticking with the game plan and are cheating as soon as they get down. The game plan is quite clearly to play a heavy forcheck, pucks in deep, physical play. Which is honestly very hard to keep up over 82 games. Especially on the road when you arent getting the energy from the crowd. I think its a pretty good example of a team that at this point can only win one way. I do think having such inexperience in nets creates a lack of trust from the players which can also get a team away from its game plan. The goalie injuries are equally as psychological for the team as they are performance based.

This is where DJ needs to evolve. They have to find a way to win on the road that is consistent. He doesn't have a game plan for that it appears. Which is structure and attention to detail based. But its also a young team its hard to get them to stay on an even keel at all times. Especially because their best hockey is played when they are full of emotion. Jacques Martins would help in this regard, he would be a great assistant for DJ in my opinion.

This is why I do think they need a new voice. But I dont want them to lose what they have when they do play with emotion. But that can only be 20% of the time no team can keep that up.

I 100% agree with the bolded parts.

I think it's especially hard to not start cheating when playing against a weaker team. When playing against a good team, it's easier to stick to "the plan", because of the fear of being punished, and also because getting points against a good team is a "bonus".

When playing against a weak team, like Chicago and Vancouver, with the team's current playoff predicament, the players absolutely know (like we do), that those points are absolutely critical considering how difficult the upcoming schedule will be. Those games were a new experience for most young players on this team for a multitude of reasons. 1) They were extremely critical "must have points" due to the difficulty of the remaining schedule, moreso than the games against the Rangers, Kraken, etc. 2) Being such a heavy favorite is also a pretty new experience for many of these players. 3) Being on such a hot streak for the past couple months is also a new experience. When you combine all three things together, you get what happened against Chicago and Vancouver: a young team under extreme pressure with a dash of overconfidence, which led to them to deviate from "the plan" to try to take the lead back as soon as they started falling behind. The fact that they did exactly the same thing against Montreal before the Detroit games and got away with it also probably didn't help. The loss last night was the classic shattered confidence "the season is lost" loss, similar to the loss to Winnipeg before our hot streak. I even called it before the game started last night, and made a pretty penny betting on Calgary -1.5.

That being said, I would not be shocked if we somehow won against Edmonton tomorrow, and went on another small run to end the season, but miss the playoffs by a few points.

But I suppose this is a little bit too much nuance for the "hur dur, DJ bad" crowd.

 

[Bileur]

Sure it is, you just are applying the words appropriately.

Both are reasons, you've applied your own subjective opinion on one being more central than the other, but even here you're applying it to a situation where expections are not met, we made it to class on time, the expectations for the season were meaningful games, we're in them. There's no need to excuse a student who has arrived on time. Even in this hypothetical student situation you've minimized the analogue to injuries, all in some bizarre attempt to hold the man accountable.


Nobody is letting people off the hook, it's possible to acknowledge more than one thing impacting the teams performance. Brushing of one of many factors doesn't hold people accountable, acknowledging injuries impact doesn't absolve responsibility for other issues.

Look, if you thought this team should have made the playoffs going into this year as contructed, well perhaps it's you who need to be excused for your overly high expectations or a poor evaluation of where this team was. No reasonable observer thought this team was a lock to make the playoffs, or even likely to do so, it was always a longshot. But let's not let them off the hook for not living up to unrealistic expectations, right?

This discussion didn’t start as an examination of the season overall, it started specifically in reference to the Sens wasting away early season points. The recent resurgence is great, but doesn’t erase earlier season and offseason mistakes which made it nearly impossible to catch up in the race.

We obviously disagree about letting people off the hook. I think saying we pissed away points early in the season because of injuries is an excuse. You think it’s a reason, fine. We don’t have to agree.

To be clear, I never expected playoffs. I always expected to see a bubble team coming up short because the defense was missing pieces, particularly in light of how it was depending too heavily on a good rookie season from Sanderson (whom I didn’t expect to perform this well).

The thing I certainly didn’t expect was for them to crater as bad as they did in November (once again) and think people need to be held to account for that.

Every team and every fanbase evaluates their organization’s performance throughout the year and in the offseason, and forms opinions and makes decisions based on that evaluation. For me, the horrible start to the season for a fourth consecutive year requires change (barring making the playoffs where it would be difficult to make a change after such an unlikely feat).

If you disagree that’s fine, but I reject your attempt to frame my views on accountability as bizarre. They fit entirely within the spectrum of reasonable outcomes to performance evaluations. Stop with the childish insults.

 

[swiftwin]

The thing I certainly didn’t expect was for them to crater as bad as they did in November (once again) and think people need to be held to account for that.

For the love of god, can we please put this dishonest narrative to rest? We had a covid outbreak last November and had to play with up to 15 regulars out of the lineup at times, and couldn't practice for 3 weeks. How on earth is a coach supposed to do his job when you remove his biggest tool to make a team better (practices)?

 

[Micklebot]

He hates the team. He is not a Sens fan.

EDITED

Lol no he doesn't. What a weird claim.

So who are you blaming?

I don't think you can really blame any one thing, the results we're seeing are a combination of many factors.

 

[Bileur]

For the love of god, can we please put this dishonest narrative to rest? We had a covid outbreak last November and had to play with up to 15 regulars out of the lineup at times, and couldn't practice for 3 weeks. How on earth is a coach supposed to do his job when you remove his biggest tool to make a team better (practices)?

The Sens under DJ have consistently struggled early in the season before getting it together later in the season. He has been here for four years and it has happened four times.

Last year was definitely tough and the way the rules were applied to the Sens and their early season outbreak compared to teams with later outbreaks was unfair.

Doesn’t change the fact the Sens have had a harder time in starts for the other 3 seasons or that the Sens were one of the worst in the NHL at the time of the outbreak last season.

 

[swiftwin]

The Sens under DJ have consistently struggled early in the season before getting it together later in the season. He has been here for four years and it has happened four times.

Last year was definitely tough and the way the rules were applied to the Sens and their early season outbreak compared to teams with later outbreaks was unfair. Doesn’t change the fact the Sens have had a harder time in starts for the other 3 seasons too.

The season before that also had extreme circumstances. We had to start the season with almost no training camp and zero pre-season games. Every other team in the north division had played a few months prior in the August bubble playoffs. We were the only team in the whole division that hadn't played any hockey whatsoever in 11 months.

These are not just "excuses". These are very real extenuating circumstances and only we and no other teams faced. It's so damn frustrating to deal with people's bullshit narratives, when they always conveniently ignore these kinds of facts.

This season is the only one where an argument can be made about the "slow start", although it can also easily argued that the team was playing quite well at the time, and had great underlying metrics, but were unluckily losing very close one-goal games. If DJ is still around next year, and we have another slow November, then yes, I will absolutely believe in this "trend". Otherwise, this is nothing more than a bullshit narrative people are using to find a scapegoat.

 

[DueDiligence]

These are not just "excuses". These are very real extenuating circumstances and only we and no other teams faced. It's so damn frustrating to deal with people's bullshit narratives, when they always conveniently ignore these kinds of facts.

You are conveniently ignoring the team's record and performance especially this year. He needs to go at the end of the season.

 

[swiftwin]

You are conveniently ignoring the team's record and performance especially this year. He needs to go at the end of the season.

The team's record and performance matches the team's goals and expectations going into the season: Play meaningful games in March.

So, no. You're the one conveniently ignoring these facts.

That being said, I'm still on the fence about DJ. I think he's not a bad coach, but I also wonder if the team needs a new voice. Every coach has a shelf life after all.

 

[DueDiligence]

The team's record and performance matches the team's goals and expectations going into the season: Play meaningful games in March.

So, no. You're the one conveniently ignoring these facts.

That being said, I'm still on the fence about DJ. I think he's not a bad coach, but I also wonder if the team needs a new voice. Every coach has a shelf life after all.

Those were very understated goals considering the moves made and the money being spent. Coaching always has the most impact in highly contested and "meaningful" games and I see the team floundering in that area right now. For example the PP has been floundering for over a month but DJ is reluctant to make changes.

 

[Bileur]

The season before that also had extreme circumstances. We had to start the season with almost no training camp and zero pre-season games. Every other team in the north division had played a few months prior in the August bubble playoffs. We were the only team in the whole division that hadn't played any hockey whatsoever in 11 months.

IIRC no team had much training camp. I stand to be corrected.

I agreed at the time, and still agree, that there should be some kind of warm up or consolation tournament for the non-bubble teams. It is unfortunate that it didn’t happen. That said, I don’t think we can definitively say that the poor start was caused by the absence of some compensatory tournament.

Buffalo and NJ didn’t play in the tournament and got off to decent starts before fading heavily later in the season. Pittsburgh and Florida ended their seasons top 5 in the league despite only having four games each in the play-in round.

Calgary, NYI, NYR and Arizona all got off to poor starts despite playing in the tournament.

I just don’t think it had that much impact.

IMO, other factors had more significant impacts on the poor start.

For instance, roster decisions like acquiring and extending Matt Murray who had a putrid start didn’t help at all. Choosing Hogberg as backup and him turning into a pumpkin made it worse.

Another example would be acquiring and giving a significant role to Stepan who looked well past his top 9 days.

Another example would be playing Gudbranson, Brown, Zaitsev and Coburn over Zub. DJ himself recognized this was a misevaluation (to be fair short camps made this eval difficult).

Another problem would be players underperforming like Dadonov, Brown and Batherson, who were playing in the top 6, combining for 4 goals in the first month of the season.

To be clear, obviously these factors don’t all fall on DJ (if they do at all).

These are not just "excuses". These are very real extenuating circumstances and only we and no other teams faced. It's so damn frustrating to deal with people's bullshit narratives, when they always conveniently ignore these kinds of facts.

Other teams also didn’t play in the bubble, we were dead last even among them, 1-7-1, in the first month.

If you’re saying the bubble and shorter camp were factors in the poor start, I agree that’s not an excuse. If you’re saying the bubble and shorter camp caused the poor start in and of themselves then IMO that is an excuse.

This season is the only one where an argument can be made about the "slow start", although it can also easily argued that the team was playing quite well at the time, and had great underlying metrics, but were unluckily losing very close one-goal games. If DJ is still around next year, and we have another slow November, then yes, I will absolutely believe in this "trend".

Why are you ignoring 2019-2020 where Ottawa finished October second to last in the league?

Otherwise, this is nothing more than a bullshit narrative people are using to find a scapegoat.

Saying the senators have had poor starts four years in a row is not a narrative. It is a demonstrable fact which can be proven by looking at objective measures like the standings.

On the other hand, presenting circumstances which may provide context and explain those facts is building a narrative. Doesn’t mean the narrative isn’t potentially true but it’s not a fact.

 

[swiftwin]

Why are you ignoring 2019-2020 where Ottawa finished October second to last in the league?


Saying the senators have had poor starts four years in a row is not a narrative. It is a demonstrable fact which can be proven by looking at objective measures like the standings.

On the other hand, presenting circumstances which may provide context and explain those facts is building a narrative. Doesn’t mean the narrative isn’t potentially true but it’s not a fact.

In 2019-20, the team finished the season second to last in the league. October was no worse than the rest of the season, it was average relative to the remainder of the season. It shouldn't be surprising. That was our "tank" year where we drafted Stutzle and Sanderson. Not sure how you can hold that against DJ.

Yes, we've had a poor start four years in a row. But there is zero evidence that it can be attributed to DJ. None. Correlation does not mean causation. On the other hand, I've listed out the overwhelming circumstances that can explain the slow starts.

EDIT: I was wondering why you were singling out October in 2019-20 instead of November, so I looked it up, and it appears we went 8-8-0 in November, and even better in December where we went 5-4-4. Then we faltered later in the season, falling back down to second last in the league.

 

[Bileur]

In 2019-20, the team finished the season second to last in the league. October was no worse than the rest of the season, it was average relative to the remainder of the season. It shouldn't be surprising. That was our "tank" year where we drafted Stutzle and Sanderson. Not sure how you can hold that against DJ.

Yes, we've had a poor start four years in a row. But there is zero evidence that it can be attributed to DJ. None. Correlation does not mean causation. On the other hand, I've listed out the overwhelming circumstances that can explain the slow starts.

EDIT: I was wondering why you were singling out October in 2019-20 instead of November, so I looked it up, and it appears we went 8-8-0 in November, and even better in December where we went 5-4-4. Then we faltered later in the season, falling back down to second last in the league.

I wasn’t purposefully picking out October I just remembered the dismal start and started there. I was compiling the rest.

Here’s the rest:

October : 3-7-1 - 30th
November : 8-8-0 - 13th
December : 5-4-4 - 24th
January: 2-5-4 - 28th
February : 5-7-3 - 23rd
March: 2-3-0 - 22nd

Ranking is league rank for the month. You’re definitely right that whole year was trash aside from November.

Like I said, I don’t think it all falls on DJ but the buck does stop there (and with Dorion).

I think he’s done good things in relation to the room and cameraderie but he’s given what he can and should be thanked and replaced with a new set of eyes and ideas.

 

[swiftwin]

I wasn’t purposefully picking out October I just remembered the dismal start and started there. I was compiling the rest.

Here’s the rest:

October : 3-7-1 - 30th
November : 8-8-0 - 13th
December : 5-4-4 - 24th
January: 2-5-4 - 28th
February : 5-7-3 - 23rd
March: 2-3-0 - 22nd

Ranking is league rank for the month.

Okay, so by this standard, we had a decent start to this season since we went 4-4-0 (.500) in October (tied with Seattle, Minnesota, Colorado, Pittsburgh and Toronto).

 

[Bileur]

Okay, so by this standard, we had a decent start to this season since we went 4-4-0 (.500) in October (tied with Seattle, Minnesota, Colorado, Pittsburgh and Toronto).

Yeah not bad in October. I spoke too soon for 19-20, you’re right we were bad all season.

 

[Micklebot]

Those were very understated goals considering the moves made and the money being spent. Coaching always has the most impact in highly contested and "meaningful" games and I see the team floundering in that area right now. For example the PP has been floundering for over a month but DJ is reluctant to make changes.

No they weren't, they were realistic and backed up by pretty much every third party doing season predictions.

The 2022-23 NHL standings as predicted by oddsmakers | Offside

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dailyhive.com

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theathletic.com

 

[Tuna99]

No they weren't, they were realistic and backed up by pretty much every third party doing season predictions.

The 2022-23 NHL standings as predicted by oddsmakers | Offside

The NHL season is right around the corner, with the race to the top of the standings sure to be as crowded as it's ever been.

dailyhive.com

NHL predictions 2022-23: Final standings, awards, playoff projections, Stanley Cup pick | Sporting News Canada

Will the Avalanche repeat as Cup champions? Can Auston Matthews win a third consecutive Rocket Richard? Is anyone stopping Connor McDavid's bid for another Art Ross?

www.sportingnews.com

NHL 2022-23 season predictions: Stanley Cup winner, dark horse, biggest disappointment and full playoff fields

The Athletic NHL staff makes its picks for Stanley Cup winner, dark horse, biggest disappointment, first coach fired and more.

theathletic.com

It’s because the team was evaluated as a whole - coach and GM included. If we had a veteran playoff coach and a GM with a playoff track record I’m sure that would of convinced many the Sens could improve beyond their horrible starts and inconsistent defending.

The things that haven’t changed from last season - poor season starts and horrible defending. On the players but what did the experts expect when they’ve seen them play horrible hockey for the last 3 years

 

[DueDiligence]

No they weren't, they were realistic and backed up by pretty much every third party doing season predictions.

Well I guess we'll have to debate the meaning of meaningful then. The poster was implying that by not being mathematically eliminated by now is what the Sens management was hoping for. Right now it looks like it could be 5-6 "meaningful" games followed by playing out the string for the last dozen . My idea that meaningful meant the Sens would be competing for a potential playoff spot right up to the last 4-5 games.

 

[c_mak]

DJ Smith is not the guy to carry the mail. This team is not playing hard for him. I think Giroux, and Brassard are doing is more coaching than DJ

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

DJ Smith is not the guy to carry the mail. This team is not playing hard for him. I think Giroux, and Brassard are doing is more coaching than DJ

Could be right.

 

[Answer]

After Chychrun trade, we are still not a .500 Team

f***ING RIDICIOUS


If I was Dorion, I would've lost it by now!


Outside of Dorion and Stutzle, everything is a shit show. This Team is always a shit show

 

[Mark Stones Spleen]

My favourite part of hockey is being part of other teams' meaningful games.

 

[aragorn]

After Chychrun trade, we are still not a .500 Team

f***ING RIDICIOUS


If I was Dorion, I would've lost it by now!


Outside of Dorion and Stutzle, everything is a shit show. This Team is always a shit show

How can you say that? This team is much improved from last yr, last yr they were out of it in November, this yr we are half way through March & they are still in it. They are exactly where most of the experts said they would be playing meaningful games in March & fighting for a playoff spot.

The other teams are also fighting for pts, no team is going to give it to them & they have been playing most of this yr with AHL goaltenders. They are also playing without Formenton & they lost their leading goal scorer Norris for the entire yr. They have plenty of excuses that could be mentioned, but that has not stopped them from still being in a playoff race this late in the yr. Some fans just won't be happy unless this team goes 82-0, this team has had a great yr & it's been a huge success in comparison to past yrs & next yr more will be expected.