Proposal: Fire DJ Smith

[bicboi64]

Well, I think think it's safe to say the fact we traded Gus was evidence the team didn't see him as our best goalie prospect.

I think it was a mistake, don't get me wrong, but I have high hopes for Sogaard, prior to the season, if I had to chose I'd have gone with Sogaard, now that Gus has had the season he's having it appears as though I was likely wrong but I don't blame the team for being higher on Sogaard in the offseason.

Agreed and that's where my concern about vision comes into play. There's been too many instances of management's evaluation being off and i'm not confident in it going forward.

If in the off season, Dorion got the most touted player (as he's done with Cat, and JC), I won't be surprised. Only for him to trade a young prospect with potential in a position that we don't have depth in for an aging vet that we don't need. Something like Kleven for Goligoski.

 

[Micklebot]

Agreed and that's where my concern about vision comes into play. There's been too many instances of management's evaluation being off and i'm not confident in it going forward.

If in the off season, Dorion got the most touted player (as he's done with Cat, and JC), I won't be surprised. Only for him to trade a young prospect with potential in a position that we don't have depth in for an aging vet that we don't need. Something like Kleven for Goligoski.

The thing is we kind of did have depth in Goal, at least at the prospect level. All of Gus, Sogaard, Mando and Merilainin have legit potential.

Gus was waiver eligible, so we either had to run with him as one of our NHL goalies or risk losing him this year. I don't think it was clear he'd be ready. Last year was a real mess for him, up and down because Murray couldn't stay healthy. It's a shame because under different circumstances we might have been more confident in running with him.

 

[DrEasy]

If we sign DeBrincat to an 8 year deal similar to Fiala's, does it become a long term move?

I didn't see Talbot as a big acquisition, more of a safety net to play 1a to Forsbergs 1b, not a long term move, your right, but not one that signals playoffs or bust. He didn't move the needle much imo. I saw it more of an indictment of what the team thought of Gus, which imo was a mistake but it is what it is.

At the beginning of the season Zub was another player who was going to be a free agent. It definitely felt like with the Talbot, Giroux and DBC acquisitions Dorion was accelerating the contention time line.

The Zub re-signing already changes things to some extent and widens the window of contention. Who knows what will happen with DBC and Chychrun, but we have Giroux and Chychrun for another two years, and we can never be sure who's going to stay and who's going to go, so for me, especially given the bare prospect pool and no high picks, we better be competitive in the next couple of years, and to me this year was year 1 of having to make the playoffs at least.

 

[bicboi64]

The thing is we kind of did have depth in Goal, at least at the prospect level. All of Gus, Sogaard, Mando and Merilainin have legit potential.

Gus was waiver eligible, so we either had to run with him as one of our NHL goalies or risk losing him this year. I don't think it was clear he'd be ready. Last year was a real mess for him, up and down because Murray couldn't stay healthy. It's a shame because under different circumstances we might have been more confident in running with him.

I'd argue that Gus was our most touted out of the 4 and moving him based on the sample we did was short sighted considering the lack of stability with the Murray situation.

If this is a development year and management thinks our goal should be meaningful games in March, I'd prefer to keep a goalie that can develop along with the rest of the team as oppose to giving up our best goalie prospect for an aging goaltender who was an All Star behind a deep defense. Giving up on Gus so fast when our goal isn't to make the playoffs this year is poor vision.

Sogaard has been pretty meh for us, but if we end up moving him as well after a small sample for someone on an expiring contract, it'd be another short sighted move that just indicates mediocre vision.

 

[Micklebot]

I'd argue that Gus was our most touted out of the 4 and moving him based on the sample we did was short sighted considering the lack of stability with the Murray situation.

If this is a development year and management thinks our goal should be meaningful games in March, I'd prefer to keep a goalie that can develop along with the rest of the team as oppose to giving up our best goalie prospect for an aging goaltender who was an All Star behind a deep defense. Giving up on Gus so fast when our goal isn't to make the playoffs this year is poor vision.

Sogaard has been pretty meh for us, but if we end up moving him as well after a small sample for someone on an expiring contract, it'd be another short sighted move that just indicates mediocre vision.

Well Sogaard is two years young and waivers exempt. That's a big factor that seems to be getting ignored, if we weren't comfortable with Gus as our backup, you're either risking losing him for nothing or trading him. Sogaard has also been better than Gus was last year under similarly difficult circumstances, and has just as similar pedigree as Gus, he was voted our 4th best prospect immediately after Greig this offseason, two years ago before a poor season by Gus, Gus was 7th and Sogaard 10th, so not a big gap in how the fanbase seemed to see them.

 

[bicboi64]

Well Sogaard is two years young and waivers exempt. That's a big factor that seems to be getting ignored, if we weren't comfortable with Gus as our backup, you're either risking losing him for nothing or trading him. Sogaard has also been better than Gus was last year under similarly difficult circumstances, and has just as similar pedigree as Gus, he was voted our 4th best prospect immediately after Greig this offseason, two years ago before a poor season by Gus, Gus was 7th and Sogaard 10th, so not a big gap in how the fanbase seemed to see them.

Sogaard is playing behind a Sens team that has finally managed to string together multiple games won and is receiving some scoring to help out. Gus didn't exactly have that. Gus has a better AHL record than Sogaard and after 9 games, Sogaard's .894 save percentage is barely better than 0.892.

My point comes down to, I'd rather Dorion take a gamble on Gus behind Forsberg as oppose to acquiring an aging vet who might not even be here. Taking that chance, the way Dorion has been taking chances with our D, illustrates that he has some faith in player development at all positions and can think past just one season. Dorion's gamble on Talbot, especially after not getting any D help, doesn't give any further confidence in his plan to address goaltending.

And for what its worth, I hope we keep Sogaard even if he has shite numbers the rest of the season because its wayyy too small of a sample to judge him.

 

[Union2017]

 

[Bileur]

Lol, look at you, might want to take a look I'm the mirror, you're projecting with accusations of being testy.

Whatever helps you sleep better man. When you read your post about Washington again with a cool head you may change your mind.

The reality is the team set a goal of being in meaningful games in March, we are, mission accomplished. Recognizing injuries are the difference between exceeding our goal and simply achieving it isn't excuses, it's accepting reality.

Injuries are a risk for all team, you can chose to mitigate them by adding depth or accept them by standing pat, we chose the later. Both come with advantages and disadvantages. This being a season focused on development, we made the choice of accepting the risk of injuries, and hey, we still accomplished our goal.

Never disputed they didn’t achieve their goal.

Blaming injuries for not making the playoffs is an excuse. There are tons of other reasons we likely aren’t going to make it. This team could easily still be in a playoff position, in spite of injuries, if they had fewer mistakes along the line. That’s why I don’t accept injuries as an excuse.

We don’t have to agree on excuses vs reasons.

When I said the teams we fighting for the final spot, I was referring to those ahead of us, you chose to interpret it differently than I intended and for that my sincere apologies for not being more clear. Having said that, the overall point stands, injuries can be the difference even if you try to mitigate them by adding depth like Washington did, the league is one where parity rules, so small advantages or disadvantages can be the difference. I don't operate under platitudes like injuries are excuses for losers, that kind of thinking leads to ignoring reality. I'm more interested in weighing all the factors and coming to a balanced evaluation. If injuries are part of how we ended where we did, I won't be affraid to admit it.

Washington is definitely fighting for a spot with us. As are Buffalo and Detroit despite being one point behind us. Your statement can’t be interpreted the way you intended, most people would just recognize they misspoke and move on.

You “don’t operate under platitudes” or “ignore reality” but have no problem stating you were “referring to those ahead of us” ignoring the reality that Washington is ahead of us.

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[Micklebot]

Whatever helps you sleep better man. When you read your post about Washington again with a cool head you may change your mind.

Sure thing, i read back and confirmed your the one being testy, glad that's cleared up

Never disputed they didn’t achieve their goal.

But the excuses....

Blaming injuries for not making the playoffs is an excuse. There are tons of other reasons we likely aren’t going to make it. This team could easily still be in a playoff position, in spite of injuries, if they had fewer mistakes along the line. That’s why I don’t accept injuries as an excuse.

Oh, ok, now that you've repeated it for the umpteenth, nope, still a meaningless platitude. Excuses are for when you don't do something you should have, they are a pretence, considered negative or irresponsible. This team was not a team expected to make the playoffs nor was that a set goal for the season, they don't need to be excused of anything, they've achieved their realistic expectations, and injuries are a fair a logical explanation of why we didn't exceed expectations

We don’t have to agree on excuses vs reasons.

Sure thing, I'll stick with the meanings of the words in the English language and you do whatever it is your doing.

Washington is definitely fighting for a spot with us. As are Buffalo and Detroit despite being one point behind us. Your statement can’t be interpreted the way you intended, most people would just recognize they misspoke and move on.

Ok, sure, the majority of the teams we have been fighting with and the ones that are our biggest threats are healthier. Washington being an exception, and one that quite nicely proves the impact injuries can and do have as a fair ad logical explanation for a team missing the playoffs

You “don’t operate under platitudes” or “ignore reality” but have no problem stating you were “referring to those ahead of us” ignoring the reality that Washington is ahead of us.

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The official standings for the National Hockey League.

www.nhl.com

Not in pts percentage which is a far better measure, but whatever.

 

[Mark Stones Spleen]

I never said our issue was the goaltending?

We haven't had Norris all year so it's hard to say what impact he'd have, but it would push Pinto down to the third line, which should improve two lines.

Our 5v5 scoring has actually been good since the new year, we're 13th since Jan 1st in GF/60 at 5v5, so I'd say we are capable of scoring 5v5, but we really did struggle the first half of the season. Why did we struggle, that's a tougher thing to answer, I don't think Pinto was ready to take on 2nd line center duties, and losing Zub for so much of the first half of the season probably didn't help, even though he's not an offensive guy, it disrupts things.

There's also the reality that we had a lot of turnover, it takes time to form chemistry, it all adds up.

Not saying DJ is the future or anything, I'm all for replacing him if the right candidate comes a long, but this team is what it is, a young group improving on the job.

I posted this Feb 25 but it does suggest there are "net" 5 on 5 issues even after Jan 1. We've jumped up since then but I don't want to recalculate. Our pp carried us through that stretch.

In the past 32 games, we're 18-12-2 (since Dec 10 - Feb 25).
Out of those 32 games:
We've been outscored 5 on 5 in 17 games
Neutral 6 games
And we've only outscored the opposition 5 on 5 in 9 of those games.

Also, on December 10, our cumulative 5 on 5 Goal differential was -7. Before today's win, it was -30.

 

[Psycroptic86]

DJ still sucks. Can’t wait for this amateur show to end.

 

[Mark Stones Spleen]

Our 5v5 GD is worse than Arizona, a team that spends $8 mill on their entire 6 dmen combined, 29 mil on forwards, and has 27 mil on IR.

 

[HSF]

what is our identity?

letting SHg goals against?

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

what is our identity?

letting SHg goals against?

LMAO

We were best PP in the league a few days ago. Kids are banged up and emotionally drained

 

[HSF]

LMAO

We were best PP in the league a few days ago. Kids are banged up and emotionally drained

being good on the PP is not an identity

also 'hard working' is not one either

I was joking about the SHG thing if you missed that

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

being good on the PP is not an identity

also 'hard working' is not one either

I was joking about the SHG thing if you missed that

I thought it was a HHOF award.

 

[Mark Stones Spleen]

I'm glad we're the best in the league for 10 minutes a game.

 

[Oscar The Grouch]

The players love DJ. He hasn't lost the room.

The problem is, outside of internal pressure, there is no other pressure on the players. So anybody that doesn't push themselves to be the best version of themselves, is not feeling any external accountability.

 

[Senscore]

Guess I'm gonna wait a little longer to post here after a win

 

[Gil Gunderson]

No adjustments, it’ll fix itself!

 

[Mark Stones Spleen]

The players love DJ. He hasn't lost the room.

The problem is, outside of internal pressure, there is no other pressure on the players. So anybody that doesn't push themselves to be the best version of themselves, is not feeling any external accountability.

So why are they doing so well on the PP and PK.

They clearly must be pushing themselves. You're telling me that as soon as the other team's penalty ends, our team just says f*** it, don't want to play?

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

Is Bob Jones still on the bench?

 

[Mark Stones Spleen]

No adjustments, it’ll fix itself!

We've had alot 60 PPs in that stretch, give or take. And we have one NET PP goal. Lmao. He's been figured out.

 

[Neil Patrick Harris]

The players love DJ. He hasn't lost the room.

I hope they love DJ. I hope it's really painful for them when the guy gets fired. And I hope they realize that their poor performance is responsible for the coach they love being shown the door.

I like DJ. I understand why the players like DJ, but this is the big leagues. This team is past the point of simply hanging in there and coasting. We need a coach who can come in and light a fire under this roster's ass - and DJ is just not that guy.

No adjustments, it’ll fix itself!

And four of those seven goals came in the two Detroit games.

 

[KAPOW]

this team needs to take the next step and smith clearly isn't the guy. soon to be 3 years in charge and some things don't change and won't. hire a coach with a track record this summer.
as chychrun's agent stated ottawa is going to become a somewhat desireable destination, should also account to coaches.