Proposal: Fire DJ Smith

[coladin]

When your goal is to not make the playoffs, and also not to be in last place - that’s not a goal, it’s an excuse. The goal is mediocrity

But we haven’t even achieved mediocrity in 6 years. Is that so bad? They have drafted what they needed to draft. The team is building and they have taken a big step this year. Would be nice to mediocre this year. And be a playoff team next year.

 

[AchtzehnBaby]

But we haven’t even achieved mediocrity in 6 years. Is that so bad? They have drafted what they needed to draft. The team is building and they have taken a big step this year. Would be nice to mediocre this year. And be a playoff team next year.

Weekly Question: How Close are the Sens to Being Competitive?

The Chychrun trade ticks off one more box for the Sens. Is the rebuild really over?

www.silversevensens.com

 

[Joeyjoejoe]

Get Andrew Brunette in the summer.

or Mike Sullivan is the Pens decide to make some changes.

 

[coladin]

DCat is defo worse. I think he is trying to be too fancy… but that is half of the team. They always pass one too many times (and the passing is not so great)

And he isn’t even “fancy”. When he tries he telegraphs passes because he can’t pull the off. He should stick to what made him a star.

All teams face injuries, professionals can’t use that as an excuse.

Who knows, maybe we’ll have Norris back next season but Chych or Sandy will go down. Maybe it will be Stutzle or Tkachuk. You have to overcome.

They aren’t excuses.

They are reasons

 

[Mark Stones Spleen]

Colorado

Landeskog - whole season
Byram >50% of season
Manson >50% of season
Nichushkin - several weeks
Mackinnon - several weeks
Makar - several weeks

Still in a playoff position. Excuses are for losers.

Excuses are out. But they're the SC champs, but their goalies didn't get injured.

Yeah no shit, we've had bad luck with injuries but it happens to other teams too. Carolina is currently on pace for more points this year than they had last year and they lost their goalie for the entire year but that example will be overlooked.

 

[Micklebot]

I’m not conflating anything. There is a difference between recognizing injuries happen and using them as an excuse.

Blaming injuries for not making the playoffs is making an excuse.

If the team had better depth, or if the depth players played better, or if the team acquired a player to replace the injured player, injuries would not have been so detrimental and they could overcome the adversity.

Pro sports are a results oriented business. Teams can undertake the right process and still fail to achieve the results and that’s ultimately what they are judged on.

You were incorrect about this part:


Washington is fighting for a final wild card spot in the east.

Washington is not significantly healthier than us.

That statement was factually incorrect.

Why are you so testy? You’re not infallible.

Lol, look at you, might want to take a look I'm the mirror, you're projecting with accusations of being testy.

The reality is the team set a goal of being in meaningful games in March, we are, mission accomplished. Recognizing injuries are the difference between exceeding our goal and simply achieving it isn't excuses, it's accepting reality.

Injuries are a risk for all team, you can chose to mitigate them by adding depth or accept them by standing pat, we chose the later. Both come with advantages and disadvantages. This being a season focused on development, we made the choice of accepting the risk of injuries, and hey, we still accomplished our goal.

When I said the teams we fighting for the final spot, I was referring to those ahead of us, you chose to interpret it differently than I intended and for that my sincere apologies for not being more clear. Having said that, the overall point stands, injuries can be the difference even if you try to mitigate them by adding depth like Washington did, the league is one where parity rules, so small advantages or disadvantages can be the difference. I don't operate under platitudes like injuries are excuses for losers, that kind of thinking leads to ignoring reality. I'm more interested in weighing all the factors and coming to a balanced evaluation. If injuries are part of how we ended where we did, I won't be affraid to admit it.

 

[bicboi64]

We traded a top 10 pick, signed some major long term deals, and set meaningful games in march as a goal. That's kinda lame for me.

Its one thing to set pretty tame goals, its another to not address major goals in our roster and then not make any moves when we have a horrendous start to the season for 3rd time in a row. Dorion has very shite vision

DJ is a one line coach who has managed to have a decent PP and PK. Can't wait for him and Dorion to be fired.

 

[Loach]

We traded a top 10 pick, signed some major long term deals, and set meaningful games in march as a goal. That's kinda lame for me.

Its one thing to set pretty tame goals, its another to not address major goals in our roster and then not make any moves when we have a horrendous start to the season for 3rd time in a row. Dorion has very shite vision

DJ is a one line coach who has managed to have a decent PP and PK. Can't wait for him and Dorion to be fired.

He did that in Junior. The only surprise is that he can't change.

 

[Micklebot]

Excuses are out. But they're the SC champs, but their goalies didn't get injured.

Yeah no shit, we've had bad luck with injuries but it happens to other teams too. Carolina is currently on pace for more points this year than they had last year and they lost their goalie for the entire year but that example will be overlooked.

Nobody is saying a team can't overcome injuries, Carolina did well in spite of some key injuries, it's ok to acknowledge when team beats the odds, doesn't take away from the reality that injuries can explain why other teams struggled. Carolina had depth in net, and were built not around relying on their goalie in the first place.

 

[Micklebot]

We traded a top 10 pick, signed some major long term deals, and set meaningful games in march as a goal. That's kinda lame for me.

Its one thing to set pretty tame goals, its another to not address major goals in our roster and then not make any moves when we have a horrendous start to the season for 3rd time in a row. Dorion has very shite vision

It took a while, but he did address the D. I think the goal we set was reasonable for the roster, and the trades we made were all with the longer term in mind, not just this season. If you thought playoffs were the benchmark for success going into this year, your more optimistic than I am.

This year isn't the vision, it's a step along the way. Next year and going forward is what it's about imo. We'll have our top 4 in place, our top 6 set, a third line of Greig-Pinto-Joseph should be good too.

DJ is a one line coach who has managed to have a decent PP and PK. Can't wait for him and Dorion to be fired.

I honestly think DJ is the definition of average. He gets what I expect out of our rosters, but no more. If we could replace him with someone who has a history of getting more than the sum of the parts that would be great.

 

[bicboi64]

It took a while, but he did address the D. I think the goal we set was reasonable for the roster, and the trades we made were all with the longer term in mind, not just this season. If you thought playoffs were the benchmark for success going into this year, your more optimistic than I am.

This year isn't the vision, it's a step along the way. Next year and going forward is what it's about imo. We'll have our top 4 in place, our top 6 set, a third line of Greig-Pinto-Joseph should be good too.

I think you're the first poster to ever call anything about me optimistic lol

Dorion addressed the D far too late and dug his own hole when it comes to forward depth imo. Sure he got Chychrun for a very good deal, but doing nothing over the summer to address our D is what constitutes poor vision. It doesn't feel like DJ made long term moves with trading for Talbot, not addressing D, and getting a forward who's base salary is $9 million, despite already having given out long term deals past $7 million to two other core forward guys in Norris and Stu.

This is the third year of "its a part of the process" and its hard for me to be sold on that.

 

[DrEasy]

I think you're the first poster to ever call anything about me optimistic lol

Dorion addressed the D far too late and dug his own hole when it comes to forward depth imo. Sure he got Chychrun for a very good deal, but doing nothing over the summer to address our D is what constitutes poor vision. It doesn't feel like DJ made long term moves with trading for Talbot, not addressing D, and getting a forward who's base salary is $9 million, despite already having given out long term deals past $7 million to two other core forward guys in Norris and Stu.

This is the third year of "its a part of the process" and its hard for me to be sold on that.

I totally agree. Giving up Gus for Talbot (a FA at the end of the year) and giving away high picks for Cat aren't long term moves. To me they meant: playoffs or bust. And accordingly that's how I set my expectations at the start of the season.

 

[Micklebot]

I think you're the first poster to ever call anything about me optimistic lol

Dorion addressed the D far too late and dug his own hole when it comes to forward depth imo. Sure he got Chychrun for a very good deal, but doing nothing over the summer to address our D is what constitutes poor vision. It doesn't feel like DJ made long term moves with trading for Talbot, not addressing D, and getting a forward who's base salary is $9 million, despite already having given out long term deals past $7 million to two other core forward guys in Norris and Stu.

This is the third year of "its a part of the process" and its hard for me to be sold on that.

Most of the guys we acquired fit the window in terms age, Talbot I agree is the odd one out.

DeBrincat doesn't have a base salary, he has a QO, time will tell what he signs for but I don't see him getting 9 mil with term.

This is the first post Melnyk season, I think Dorion has made more positive moves since Melnyk's passing than negative by a substantial margin. Is he the ideal HM going forward, probably not, but I'm willing to acknowledge he's done some good lately.

 

[Loach]

It took a while, but he did address the D. I think the goal we set was reasonable for the roster, and the trades we made were all with the longer term in mind, not just this season. If you thought playoffs were the benchmark for success going into this year, your more optimistic than I am.

This year isn't the vision, it's a step along the way. Next year and going forward is what it's about imo. We'll have our top 4 in place, our top 6 set, a third line of Greig-Pinto-Joseph should be good too.

I honestly think DJ is the definition of average. He gets what I expect out of our rosters, but no more. If we could replace him with someone who has a history of getting more than the sum of the parts that would be great.

Every player plays better when they leave though.

 

[Micklebot]

Every player plays better when they leave though.

Idk if that's really true, White, Tierney, Sanford, Dadonov all looked pretty similar to how they were here.

 

[bicboi64]

Most of the guys we acquired fit the window in terms age, Talbot I agree is the odd one out.

DeBrincat doesn't have a base salary, he has a QO, time will tell what he signs for but I don't see him getting 9 mil with term.

This is the first post Melnyk season, I think Dorion has made more positive moves since Melnyk's passing than negative by a substantial margin. Is he the ideal HM going forward, probably not, but I'm willing to acknowledge he's done some good lately.

Sorry i meant total salary exceeding his cap hit. Cat is still getting paid $9 million this year.

Post Melnyk Dorion has been better from Pre-Melnyk Dorion, but for me that's going from awful to below average. The 'lack of vision' moves align with Melnyk passing. Acquiring Talbot and Cat to me are playoff moves. To get Talbot for just a development year is very alarming and giving up a 7th overall for a 40g scorer also screams lets get to the dance. Granted guys like Cat can also fit the team's window, but when you acquire someone who we only have control of for 2 years, that changes the convo a bit.

Its not even a question for me about whether Dorion is the guy for the next job. For every steal of a deal (Chychrun) there's more moves that lead to butchering depth while paying more for crappier players.

 

[Loach]

Idk if that's really true, White, Tierney, Sanford, Dadonov all looked pretty similar to how they were here.

Tierny lol

 

[Gil Gunderson]

 

[Mark Stones Spleen]

Nobody is saying a team can't overcome injuries, Carolina did well in spite of some key injuries, it's ok to acknowledge when team beats the odds, doesn't take away from the reality that injuries can explain why other teams struggled. Carolina had depth in net, and were built not around relying on their goalie in the first place.

Our collective sv % is .904, Carolina's is .907.

Our ES goal differential is our issue - worse than Arizona and tied with MTL. Do you think we should be better than them given our roster? MTL save percentage is .901, Arizona is .906, so it's not shittier goaltending that's causing this issue.

With or without Norris, we cannot score 5 on 5. A team with a healthy Brady, Bath, Stu, Giroux, and Debrincat, shouldn't be this bad In this category.

 

[Sens of Anarchy]

I think it might be worth a shot to try DeBrincat on the top line. Putting Tkachuk with Pinto and Batherson might ignite that line. He may create more space and opportunity for them. He should try it tonight

good suggestion

 

[aragorn]

I don't see DJ or PD getting fired at the end of this season or with new ownership, although anything is possible. The team is very much improved from last yr & with less than 20 games remaining are still in a playoff race. I think that the hockey world will give that credit to the GM, the HC & the players.

They can also see that Ottawa has a number of more good young players coming who should only improve the team overall. And again that goes to the GM who drafted or traded for those players. It will be interesting what happens once the team is sold but hopefully it turns into a great experience for the team & the city. We'll see,

 

[Micklebot]

Our collective sv % is .904, Carolina's is .907.

Our ES goal differential is our issue - worse than Arizona and tied with MTL. Do you think we should be better than them given our roster? MTL save percentage is .901, Arizona is .906, so it's not shittier goaltending that's causing this issue.

I never said our issue was the goaltending?

With or without Norris, we cannot score 5 on 5. A team with a healthy Brady, Bath, Stu, Giroux, and Debrincat, shouldn't be this bad In this category.

We haven't had Norris all year so it's hard to say what impact he'd have, but it would push Pinto down to the third line, which should improve two lines.

Our 5v5 scoring has actually been good since the new year, we're 13th since Jan 1st in GF/60 at 5v5, so I'd say we are capable of scoring 5v5, but we really did struggle the first half of the season. Why did we struggle, that's a tougher thing to answer, I don't think Pinto was ready to take on 2nd line center duties, and losing Zub for so much of the first half of the season probably didn't help, even though he's not an offensive guy, it disrupts things.

There's also the reality that we had a lot of turnover, it takes time to form chemistry, it all adds up.

Not saying DJ is the future or anything, I'm all for replacing him if the right candidate comes a long, but this team is what it is, a young group improving on the job.

 

[Micklebot]

I totally agree. Giving up Gus for Talbot (a FA at the end of the year) and giving away high picks for Cat aren't long term moves. To me they meant: playoffs or bust. And accordingly that's how I set my expectations at the start of the season.

If we sign DeBrincat to an 8 year deal similar to Fiala's, does it become a long term move?

I didn't see Talbot as a big acquisition, more of a safety net to play 1a to Forsbergs 1b, not a long term move, your right, but not one that signals playoffs or bust. He didn't move the needle much imo. I saw it more of an indictment of what the team thought of Gus, which imo was a mistake but it is what it is.

 

[bicboi64]

If we sign DeBrincat to an 8 year deal similar to Fiala's, does it become a long term move?

I didn't see Talbot as a big acquisition, more of a safety net to play 1a to Forsbergs 1b, not a long term move, your right, but not one that signals playoffs or bust. He didn't move the needle much imo. I saw it more of an indictment of what the team thought of Gus, which imo was a mistake but it is what it is.

I'd say yes. Guarantees we're not going to lose the guy for nothing/less than what we gave him. If Dorion signed Cat to a reasonable deal at the time I'd definitely lean more towards it being a future move. Only critique at that point could possibly be allocating so much money to the top 6.

Reason the Talbot acquisition warrants so much scrutiny is us giving up our best goalie prospect after <30 games for someone who's so old and on an expiring contract. If it was another prospect that was B tier, not sure the move warrants as much critique but it felt like a win now move considering the context.

 

[Micklebot]

Reason the Talbot acquisition warrants so much scrutiny is us giving up our best goalie prospect after <30 games for someone who's so old and on an expiring contract. If it was another prospect that was B tier, not sure the move warrants as much critique but it felt like a win now move considering the context.

Well, I think think it's safe to say the fact we traded Gus was evidence the team didn't see him as our best goalie prospect.

I think it was a mistake, don't get me wrong, but I have high hopes for Sogaard, prior to the season, if I had to chose I'd have gone with Sogaard, now that Gus has had the season he's having it appears as though I was likely wrong but I don't blame the team for being higher on Sogaard in the offseason.