If were winning a medal again Lambert and Lundell will have to put on a hell of a show and the goalie too. But one thing when it comes to Team Finland in hockey is that you can never count us out from medal games.
WJC: Finland 2021 Roster Talk
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Svedu
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- Apr 23, 2019
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I respect your opinion. You are at least willing to have a debate. I'm actually more confused regarding Puistola and yes, I would have wanted to see Miettinen and Tuomisto to get the chance to show their current form and status on camp. Why? Because I see more potential in them two then a couple of others who have been selected. Miettinen produced at a record level at U-20s. That should count for something and he is in fact a much better skater than Simontaival and their toolbox is some what similar. Tuomisto? Well, I can buy the decision to leave him out from the final roster but why not invite him and see if he can be a factor? And I´m writing this even if I´ve not been convinced seeing Tuomisto representing Team Finland before. Players can develop and his club numbers were something else compared to others. But hey, this is okay. Don't understand why we couldn't debate and disagree about things? Some people get so offended. An underdog can still win gold. I have never stated the opposite (Karhukissa).
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I can't believe they didn't select Aatu. This is the biggest sibling snub since Principal Skinner said this:
"Children, I'll be frank. In the event of nuclear war, we can only save our best and brightest. Therefore, space in the fallout shelter will be reserved for Lisa Simpson, Martin Prince, our championship kickball team and Sherri, but not Terri."
"Children, I'll be frank. In the event of nuclear war, we can only save our best and brightest. Therefore, space in the fallout shelter will be reserved for Lisa Simpson, Martin Prince, our championship kickball team and Sherri, but not Terri."
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Puistola also showed last year he was good enough to play a top-6 role at the U-20 WJC. He may not have had a crazy start this year, but to pass on a player who has proven that he could score at the world stage is an unusual move.
For all the discussion about these players not getting invited, I can tell you it 100% doesn't have to do with their play. There is most certainly an underlying reason which might be player refusal/Covid issues/injuries that we are not aware of. I'm sure we've all been here long enough to know that it is only in the most rare circumstances that a player is passed over as a returnee- and that's for the actual team, not the pre-tourney camp.
There's also another option on the table and that's a late inclusion to the roster once whatever issues exist are resolved. I would guess there is probably a good chance that we see one or both of these guys before the opening puck drop of the tourney.
There's also another option on the table and that's a late inclusion to the roster once whatever issues exist are resolved. I would guess there is probably a good chance that we see one or both of these guys before the opening puck drop of the tourney.
Not selecting Puistola and Aatu Räty is weird but this head coach is good and knows what he is doing. One of the best coaches in Finland at the moment so I trust him.
karhukissa
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- Apr 2, 2019
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Well you said that you consider Finland as underdogs now, as in leaving Räty and Puistola out changed that drastically, it didn't.
I'm not trying to be a "wiseguy", just saying that Pennanen as a coach dropped those guys out for a reason. If he as a champion coach and especially as a great developing coach decided to leave them out, there must've been a reason. He wants to win and will decide a team that has best chance to win.
Maybe you have too high standards what comes to great talent production. Since 2016 Finland has had 1 player drafted top-3 each year except last draft, and Lundell is considered as great prospect in my eyes atleast.
Also i don't know what your olympic comparison has anything to do with this tournament. If Räty and Puistola were game changers they would play for this team. And for example 2018 Finland had extremely strong team and failed badly, whereas 2014 Finland won gold as underdogs. Personally i would've chosen Puistola, not sure about Räty since Finland has very strong center core and currently have 3 better options.
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JabbaJabba
Registered User
I don't understand how you can suspect that Finland isn't producing great talents. There are more Finns in the NHL than ever and next season they should have over 50 Finns who play at least a game in the NHL. There's depth and there are stars. Also, at least one Finnish player was drafted in top 5 between 2016-2019. This year was poorer year as Lundell went 12th, but he has shown that the worries about his skating and offensive abilities were not serious. I am excited about his future as I am about Järventie's for example. I don't see a top 5 pick for Finns in 2021, but there will likely be a couple first rounders just like we have gotten used to. The last time a Finnish player wasn't taken in the first round was in 2009. Lambert is likely the next top 5 pick.
Things are better than they have been in a long time. For example, if you look at season 2014-2015 season you see that Koivu and Filppula had the best points out of Finns with 48 each. They barely made it to top 100 in points in the league being 96th and 98th. Koivu's PPG was 0,6. Last season, which had shorter regular season due to corona 48 points would have put them 5th best in scoring for Finns and Koivu's PPG would have been 6th best. Aho was 20th in points, Laine 27th, Teräväinen 29th and Barkov was 31st in the league.
If you look at the last full season 2018-2019 Koivu/Filppula would have been 7th best Finns in points and in PPG. Barkov was 10th in points in the league, Rantanen was 17th, Aho 21st, Teräväinen 36th and Granlund 92nd. These guys are also young and most are just entering their prime years.
Looking at points leaves out the defencemen. For long developing defenders was a problem for Finland but now that aspect is getting better. Heiskanen was amazing last season, especially in the playoffs. Lindell is great defence first -type of guy, Ristolainen, Määttä and Vatanen are fine top 4 defencemen, Jokiharju is developing and he's also already a top 4 guy with potential to grow into a top pairing guy. Välimäki missed last season but he's ready to take his spot next year. Heinola got games last season and surprisingly looked great. He could make the NHL as well the upcoming season. Then there are guys like Vaakanainen, Juolevi, Mikkola, Niku to name a few who look promising and should get games next season. While the defencemen can't match the forwards with as much high end players, there are still a lot of good players and more are coming.
Honestly, at the moment Finland's problem is goalies as a lot of the veterans are getting old and Finland hasn't produced top goalies in a while. Still I am hopeful that players like Kähkönen, Luukkonen and Annunen will be NHL goalies.
Sorry for the OT but I just can't understand how you doubt about Finland producing great talents when we are in the golden years. Yeah there's no Selänne to take home the Rocket trophy but other than that has there been better times for Finnish hockey on NHL level?
This is what Göran Stubb had to say about Aatu Räty not being selected (it's in Finnish):
Mitä tapahtui Aatu Rädylle, 18? Asiantuntija ihmeissään superlupauksen romahduksesta: ”Sääliksi käy”
Mitä tapahtui Aatu Rädylle, 18? Asiantuntija ihmeissään superlupauksen romahduksesta: ”Sääliksi käy”
Hirvonen-Lundell-Simontaival
Järventie-Pärssinen-Lambert
Mäntykivi-Helenius-Räty
Aaltonen-Nikkanen-Petman
Heinola-Niemelä
Kokkonen-Puutio
Viro-Rafkin
Rajaniemi-Hatakka
Blomqvist
Piiroinen
Lots of offensive skill left out but hopefully this clear top 6, bottom 6 mentality works out.
Defense lacks star power outside Heinola but can be good.
Järventie-Pärssinen-Lambert
Mäntykivi-Helenius-Räty
Aaltonen-Nikkanen-Petman
Heinola-Niemelä
Kokkonen-Puutio
Viro-Rafkin
Rajaniemi-Hatakka
Blomqvist
Piiroinen
Lots of offensive skill left out but hopefully this clear top 6, bottom 6 mentality works out.
Defense lacks star power outside Heinola but can be good.
ChicagoBullsFan
Registered User
Finland's coaching staff has already said
that the official U20 WJC roster will announced 12th December.
There isn't any chances anymore to add more players in the roster after 12th December.
Puistola and Räty are officially out of U20 WJC's and nothing won't change that.
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ChicagoBullsFan
Registered User
Räty Lundell Järventie
Heinola Niemelä
Hirvonen Pärssinen Lambert
Kokkonen Rafkin
Mäntykivi Helenius Simontaival
Viro Puutio
Aaltonen Nikkanen Petman
Rajaniemi Hatakka
Goalies
Blomqvist
Piiroinen
Taponen.
Captains
C Lundell
A Pärssinen
A Kokkonen
Heinola Niemelä
Hirvonen Pärssinen Lambert
Kokkonen Rafkin
Mäntykivi Helenius Simontaival
Viro Puutio
Aaltonen Nikkanen Petman
Rajaniemi Hatakka
Goalies
Blomqvist
Piiroinen
Taponen.
Captains
C Lundell
A Pärssinen
A Kokkonen
We’re clearly not at December 12th yet, so there is still a bit of time for an add.
Can you summarize this for us? My Finnish is pretty poor due to the fact that I never learned any.
He says that you can forget about the talks about first finnish number 1 draft pick. And he feels sorry for Aatu.
JabbaJabba
Registered User
Göran Stubb had very little to say. He actually said "I don't know what happened to Räty. I guess the skills are still there but he hasn't been able to produce this year". Then he said he saw him play in U20 game and thought he looked good. Not very insightful article.
Jersey Fan 12
Positive Vibes
- Nov 20, 2006
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Google translate? All though it is funny sometimes with Finnish. A lot of times the figures of speech don't translate directly and seem confusing in English.
Okay I'll translate some. This is what Göran Stubb said about Aatu Räty:
-The skills are probably still there but he hasn't just been able to perform this year.
-Last weekend I saw him play with the A-juniors and in my opinion he played a really strong game.
-He hit the goal post 3 times and he was dominating every time he was on the ice
-We can now forget that he would be #1 overall pick
-It sucks for him that he's not eligible to play in U18 anymore, so it's harder for him to display his skills for that reason
-I feel sorry for him because he was a sure first round pick but now we have many question marks around him
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Svedu
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- Apr 23, 2019
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It's like you are trying to misunderstand me. But hey, look at what you are doing. You are almost proving my point by yourself. You are comparing Finland to former Finland, like ten or twenty years ago? I´m comparing with 2-5 years before and other nations such as Sweden and USA. Yes, Finland has a smaller population but hockey is not a big sport in USA and football is by far the most popular sport in Sweden. Finland lives for it´s hockey, it's almost like a religion. Beating Sweden or Russia in hockey is like Christmas. That makes it popular for the absolutely best kids to choose this sport in Finland. While in Sweden and other countries there is a possibility to loose these talents to football or other sports.
There for I don't understand why you wouldn't be open to have big expectations for a modern hockey country as Finland now is? Or bigger than you are having. You just can't compare Finland to generations from the 70´s and 80´s. The economy is a factor here as well. Many finns moved to Sweden to work and we all know hockey is an expensive sport.
The point I´m trying to make is that the scenario is totally different now and that it would be foolish to only focus on those 80´s generations.
The thing is that I agree with a lot of your opinions but you haven't understood me to the fullest. Perhaps because I've not explained it good enough. I´m comparing these players born 2000 and 2002 to players born 97-99 and perhaps even 2001 and 2003.
In my opinion Lundell and Kakko is nothing less than elite, no doubt. Heinola is very talented as well. All players born 2001.
But I´m comparing to these players before them. Vesalainen and Tolvanen were great talents at juniors, just as Heiskanen, Luukkonen, Vaakanainen, Jokiharju, Laaksonen, Ikonen etc. I don't really see that kind of talent this year or last year. Not that same kind of "Elite" or top six top, top four depth as before.
You could compare a player like Tolvanen to Simontaival and I would want to say that at the same age Tolvanen had reached a lot more impressing achievements than Kasper. He was producing at KHL-level and had already been a monster in junior tournaments before the gold.
Before that then? Players born 98 with prospects like Juolevi, Laine, Puljujärvi, Välimäki, Kuokkanen etc.
I mean just take a look at those rosters. Puustinen just made it to the team one year and he is one of the better players in Liiga at 21.
Before these tournaments started those years Finland were considered as one of the favorites, that's the difference. And yes, that is expected from a smaller country. Not being able to be big favorites every year, and I´m just stating this. That seems to confuse some people or make them mad, like they are trying to misunderstand or claim things I´ve never indicated.
This years guys are a lot more talented than players ten to fifteen years before them, but I´m not comparing to those Finnish generations when Tuukka Rask was almost the only highlight.
So, move along.
I will admit I´m seeing similarities with this roster to the Team Finland we saw in 2014. With Teräväinen leading a whole team just like Lundell will have to do this year. With Niemelä, Heinola etc being comparable to Lindell, Ristolainen and Honka. But I´m not sure Blomqvist can be just as good as Saros was back then, because he was so freakishly good. Teräväinen was so damn good and carried the team on his shoulders. Even if Lundell has the same or even more potential, those performances by Teräväinen was top5 performances for me in the WJC´s the ten last years, perhaps only beaten by Kuznetsov. So that means Lundell will have to be on his A game and that this team will need to perform crazy good to win the gold when Canada and Russia are getting most of their best players this year.
snipes
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So Raty not on the team for performance reasons? That’s interesting.
Finns usually overachieve when they’re “underdogs” so I wouldn’t write them off just yet, Suomi could still win a knockout game or two and it would surprise no one.
Finns usually overachieve when they’re “underdogs” so I wouldn’t write them off just yet, Suomi could still win a knockout game or two and it would surprise no one.
karhukissa
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- Apr 2, 2019
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Hockey is not a big sport in the USA but there are still more people playing hockey than in Finland. Also there are more people playing football in Finland than hockey. Football in Argentina or Brazil is like religion, hockey in here is huge but not the same. You're just exaggerating.
Many of our best kids are choosing floorball, basketball, football or athletics because hockey is too expensive for many.
Svedu
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Okay, but if you check how many there are playing per capita? Then I'm pretty sure Finland is closer to Canada than USA?
Are you claiming football as the national sport in Finland? Or what are you trying to achieve in this debate? Oh come the f*ck on. You are just nitpicking right now and trying to be a smart *ss? Religion or not, hockey is the sport were most of the Finns will bench themselves in front of the TV.
In football you got Pukki (playing in the championship) and that´s about it. There is no player in Finland right now who has the potential to become the next Litmanen or Hyypiä? Why? Because Finland does not have the culture to produce top players in football. You don't even need to have the biggest population either, just take a look at Uruguay. Then you've got two players ever, that made an impact and two goalies (Niemi & Jääskeläinen) that played in the premiership. Compared to Sweden who has won bronze in WC´s? Currently our neighbor has Zlatan, Kulusevski, Forsberg, Isak, Lindelöf, Quaison etc, and there has been others before them, you get the point. Next sport perhaps? In basketball? You got Markkanen and Koponen (not even NBA-level of a player). If you would have written rally or something I´ve could of been able to shut my mouth, just because historically Finland has been very successful.
Athletics? Bruh! Finland had some long distance runners back in the days and has always been good in javelin and shot put, but nowadays? Athletics? Finland is no where close to even Norway or Sweden.
Okay, so what's your point with including Argentina and Brazil to this debate? I mean football is just as big in Uruguay and that country is very comparable to Finland in a way, or why not Portugal? It's like you need to have the biggest population to claim that a sport is big in a country or what is your goal with your arguments? Like claiming hockey is only big in Canada or something.
Oh well, have a nice evening.
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Getting past quarterfinals will be tough job this year. I would be very pleased if this team can get a medal, even the bronze works fine this time. My prediction is that we will have a rematch of last years quarterfinal Finland versus United States. That could work out either way.
Jussi
Registered User
This would indeed be more upsetting if those players were playing well and putting up points. The Finnish national team is not a place where a player is picked to get his game on track. The player is expected to perform and help the team to win games. Neither Puistola and Räty are in such form right now, unfortunately.
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