They’re struggling in a men’s league. This is a junior tournament and EXACTLY the place to start performing. Leaving off a returning player is weird. Leaving off a returning player that was your team’s number two scorer last season is nothing short of asinine.
WJC: Finland 2021 Roster Talk
- Thread starter JJTT
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Jussi
Registered User
Not when said players have done f*** all this season. There are players putting up better numbers this season on the team. Plain and simple. In a short tournament it's all about what have you done for me lately. Not what did you do a year ago.
In a season that’s as messed up as this one I would argue that your proven track record is more important than your current numbers.
Oh, and by the way, Puistola’s Liiga points-per-game last year was 0.27. This year it’s 0.32. Soooooooo..... he’s actually UP in production.
Jussi
Registered User
Canada4Gold
Registered User
- Dec 22, 2010
- 43,235
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No don't talk craziness. There are 8 forwards at camp with a better Liiga ppg than Puistola, and then rabble rabble something about top 6 skill, bottom 6 physical support roles.
1 of those 8 has only played 2 games(1 point for 0.5 ppg), 2 of the other 7 have never played an IIHF tournament for Finland, and only have marginally better ppgs. The other 5 are Lundell, Lambert, Jarventie, Hirvonen, and Parssinen. I don't know all that much about Parssinen, but the other 4 are good bets for top 6 roles.
TBH it wouldn't shock me if he had tested positive for covid and rather than make it obvious that's what kept him off the roster they just pretended he was never invited. His team's last game was November 27th and looking at the schedule there's a big December break, doesn't play again until Boxing Day.
Right, better numbers by like 1 or 2 points, that huge!
Not to mentiin there's several players with much worse numbers or they play in much worse leagues.There is no good reason to not have player with track record of performing great at the WJC lvl.
Of course the mystery boxes are better than proven players!
All top 6 wingers better perform really f***ing good to justify leaving Puistola completely off the team.
Ummm... the team’s second leading scorer last year? A guy that’s been over a point per game in every season of international hockey since he was 16? What the hell are you talking about???What proven track record??
Jussi
Registered User
Ummm... the team’s second leading scorer last year? A guy that’s been over a point per game in every season of international hockey since he was 16? What the hell are you talking about???
One tournament is a track record? It really matters more what he's done lately. Come on people, you're not picking people who "were good" for the men's national team for Worlds anymore, yet insist on doing that for the WJC? Wake the f*** up people.
Jussi
Registered User
Right, better numbers by like 1 or 2 points, that huge!
There is no good reason to not have player with track record of performing great at the WJC lvl.
Of course the mystery boxes are better than proven players!
All top 6 wingers better perform really f***ing good to justify leaving Puistola completely off the team.
Or what? You'll complain online?
I’m sorry, did you miss the part about him being over a point per game in international play during each of the past three years?One tournament is a track record? It really matters more what he's done lately. Come on people, you're not picking people who "were good" for the men's national team for Worlds anymore, yet insist on doing that for the WJC? Wake the f*** up people.
Jussi
Registered User
I’m sorry, did you miss the part about him being over a point per game in international play during each of the past three years?
He was also putting up points in junior leagues then...
If he's got some kind of mental block going about production right now, WJC is not the place to unlock it.
Yeah, he was putting up points in junior tournaments.
Wait... isn’t THIS a junior tournament? It is? Ok, cool.
Jussi
Registered User
Jussi
Registered User
Pavel Buchnevich
"Pavel Buchnevich The Fake"
It seems that way. They almost always struggle when they are expected to play well or win, and when they aren’t expected to win or play well, they do well and win.
Alright troll.
The point is that who ever is replacing Puistola on this roster, should be able to perform as well as he did. Or even close to that, to justify leaving him off, because it is clearly a controversial decision.
karhukissa
Registered User
- Apr 2, 2019
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I'm sorry but that was a bad argument. So just because Puistola was good last year, only way to justify leaving him off is that replacing player/s play as well as he did last year? How about Puistola not being good enough for the team this year? And is it given that Puistola would play as good as he did last time?
I would understand this controversy if we're talking Laine/Aho level talent who's just going through a bad slump or something. Again, i'd probably have chosen Puistola as well but 1) I don't have as much data about him as Pennanen&his staff has 2)I'm not a champion coach or any type of coach.
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I suppose my argument here is that we know how well Puistola played last year at the WJC level. That's all we really know so far.
Sure, what we dont know is how Puistola would hypothetically play this year, I would expect similar performance by him this year too, as a year older. Maybe he doesnt perform, but we know he maybe could.
We also dont how any of these first timers are going to perform. We dont even know the lines yet. Maybe they all suck, maybe they dont.
We had the advantage of having players with experience and good performances in this tournament, which I think is huge, and decided not to bring them back.
That is my problem with this decision.
There are a bunch of unknowns every time you enter a tournament with a new team. That’s why it’s so weird to give up one of your few known factors- the fact that Puistola HAS ALREADY shown he can perform at this level. In fact, he was an 18 year old playing against 19 year olds. Now he’s 19 and playing against his age peers and those younger than him.
As for your take on the coaching, admittedly neither of us our professional coaches, but you and I know these guys are just people and make all kinds of mistakes. I’ve been watching this tournament for 30 years and the conventional wisdom which has paid off time and again is that returning players come back even better with a year of extra development under their belts. Even guys that struggle in their first tournament usually come back and play key roles. It’s weird that some people aren’t aware of this simple fact.
Jersey Fan 12
Positive Vibes
- Nov 20, 2006
- 7,496
- 3,278
Still talking Puistola? From the outside it looks like some of the new players are far more skilled. Finland in the past has always tried to build a team based on specific roles. If there are better players at his role then they will take them.
Looking at NHLe this season so far, Puistola is behind 8 forwards who were invited to camp. It's not a perfect method, but it gives a rough estimate to compare across leagues.
He's behind Lundell, Jarventie, Parssinen, Nikkanen, Puhakka, Helenius, Hirvonen, Lambert.
Ahead of Simontaival, Aaltonen, Mantykivi, Korhonen, Pyyhtia, Petman, Valkeejarvi, Raty.
Hard to speak on how the coaching staff wants to build the roster in terms of offensive vs two-way role players, but based on scoring alone there really isn't much reason to have left Puistola out of the camp. He is about middle of the pack in terms of the guys who were invited to camp, plus the obvious fact that he's a returnee who played well at WJC last year.
He's behind Lundell, Jarventie, Parssinen, Nikkanen, Puhakka, Helenius, Hirvonen, Lambert.
Ahead of Simontaival, Aaltonen, Mantykivi, Korhonen, Pyyhtia, Petman, Valkeejarvi, Raty.
Hard to speak on how the coaching staff wants to build the roster in terms of offensive vs two-way role players, but based on scoring alone there really isn't much reason to have left Puistola out of the camp. He is about middle of the pack in terms of the guys who were invited to camp, plus the obvious fact that he's a returnee who played well at WJC last year.
Jersey Fan 12
Positive Vibes
- Nov 20, 2006
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On the contrary, you would hope a returnee would be better than "middle of the pack". If that's the case, the newer player would be a better option since you would think there would be the potential for improvement.
I'd disagree with that. I would take a guy who has proven he can score at that level over potential, if they are at roughly the same level in club play this year.
