Fantasy GM Thread | Two Minutes to Midnight for Horvat?

[tradervik]

My main takeaway from the Drance clip is that he has no real sources as he comes right out and says his "sources" are "the most plugged in insiders". So his third-hand info and "feelings" about what the Canucks are trying to do need to be taken with a mountain of salt. With Dhaliwal at least you know he gets info directly from agents.

 

[BrentSopelsHair]

Very excited for the main trade return for our captain, who has been let down at every turn by this franchise but continued to work hard, improve, and be a leader on the ice and in the community, to be comprised of young players who neither really excite in the now nor have the "hope" ceiling for future success of draft picks.

Cannot blame Horvat in the slightest for not wanting to be the one to bend over backwards to help out this franchise, considering that they have never ever exercised the kind of prudence and care that would incentivize players wanting to act in the interests of the team. Instead they signed Miller to a contract paying him a shitload of money when he's a careless drifter when the team isn't winning, and they offered Horvat sub-market value

 

[mriswith]

i think it's becoming more obvious as we go what their plan was, and that was to retool within two seasons of his appointment.

I don't think they ever had any intention of retooling. Retool implies some sort of sacrifice in the moment for later gain and all they've done is try to push forward refusing to sacrifice anything at all, exactly like the previous regime.

It's all in, every season, forever here in Canuckland.

 

[ahmon]

Only way this turns out ok is if they could do a straight-up trade for a Wyatt Johnston or something along those lines, which is pretty unlikely.

That was the player I was thinking about too. Rhd C who at 19 already looks like a player - one where he can generate offense and make plays.

Although with the low elc, I fail to see why Dallas would do that - unless they are really desperate to win now.

And this is just why we should never have signed that boeser contract.

 

[rypper]

Disagree Garland makes sense cap hit goes from 5 mil down to less than 2 except one year. Garland is small and 27 this year with 5 more years at 5 mil.

Canuck army had an article about possible defencemen 26 yrs old the Canucks could try for.

Brandon Carlo, Logan Stanley, Kevin Bahl, Andrew Peeke, Lucas Johansen, Sean Durzi, Pierre-Olivier Joseph, Zach Whitecloud, Philippe Myers, Dante Fabbro I left out the 5'9" dmen.

Just to be that guy, but he is 26, 27 at the end of the season, and it's only 3 more years at 4.95.

 

[TruGr1t]

So they offered him 8X$7.5M now, when they offered him just over 8X$5M six months ago? What a bunch of bozos. Meet new management, same bozos as the old management.

The danger now is they pull a Miller and totally cave on Horvat's demands, and mess this franchise up for literally the next 10+ years.

 

[rypper]

8 x 5.125 is laughable and insulting, even as a starting point. I don't know what they were thinking of they actually ever wanted to really sign him.

 

[iFan]

what's so annoying is we're trading one of our best players and we don't have the pieces in the system to replace him. We have so many holes and issues with this core and we're now stuck with Millers deal when we're getting worse. How are they going to come out and talk about trading Horvat and taking a step backwards AFTER you re-signed Miller to that monster deal that kicks in when he's 30! this management group sucks at their job and we the fans pay the price for it.

 

[Nucker101]

what's so annoying is we're trading one of our best players and we don't have the pieces in the system to replace him. We have so many holes and issues with this core and we're now stuck with Millers deal when we're getting worse. How are they going to come out and talk about trading Horvat and taking a step backwards AFTER you re-signed Miller to that monster deal that kicks in when he's 30! this management group sucks at their job and we the fans pay the price for it.

It's a stuck in the middle situation, par for the course during the last 8-9 years.

They should've either traded both of them to kick start a rebuild, or signed both if they truly feel like this core is good enough and just needs tweaking. I would've strongly disagreed with the latter but at least that's a direction, instead they're once again in this weird no man's land like when they let Markstrom/Tanev/Toffoli all walk.

It's actually amazing how scared this franchise been to just pick a clear direction.


I think it was Dreger or Sarevelli that mentioned this last summer that rival executives are even confused by this team's moves, they don't know if they're trying to win-now or build for the future.

 

[Hansen]

The lowball offer was insult added to injury after the Miller signing. The writing was on the wall at that point

Management continues to back themselves into corner unnecessarily. Its wild that of all things this is the direct leak to the media, all this does is lower Bos trade value

 

[PavelBure10]

This kinda feels like the Tanev situation all over again. Tanev sat there and waited for the Canucks to offer him a contract, while Jim Benning put him on the back burner while he tried his hardest to acquire Ekman-Larsson a year earlier. Benning's plans fell through and finally came back to Tanev when it was way too late. Tanev said F you and signed on with Calgary.

Now Horvat waited for his contract to get renewed. Rutherford and Co opted to sign J.T Miller to a ridiculous contract instead. Then decide to over pay Brock Boeser who just came off a terrible season. Horvat was rumored to have been offered a laughable contract that he declined. Now Canucks management is scrambling to sign Horvat when it's way too late. The Canucks will lose their captain, and once again Canucks management look stupid.

You finally get rid of Benning, and then you sign Rutherford who thus far looks like Jim Benning 2.0

It honestly is depressing to be a fan of this team sometimes, and unfortunately nothing will "Ever" change until this stupid owner decides to sell the team.

Honestly good on Horvat. Get away from this burning tire fire of a franchise. Like the others that we lost due to stupidity, You deserve better!

 

[racerjoe]

8 x 5.125 is laughable and insulting, even as a starting point. I don't know what they were thinking of they actually ever wanted to really sign him.

While I think it was too low to start from it makes sense from the POV of that is what RNH signed for.

Personally I don't completely believe this part of the rumour, but that is just me. There was reports galore at the beginning of the offseason of this being an easy signing and all parties on the same page, and if they were that far off from the start, I just don't think that we hear that report, especially knowing most reports would be leaking from the agents side.

 

[Vector]

New Drance and Dhaliwal article over at The Athletic.

Overall, doesn’t feel like it contains any new information that wasn’t revealed earlier today.

Horvat:
-believe it was a max term offer “well shy of 8 million”
-actively engaging in listening to trade offers right now
-“looking for a package including multiple young players — ideally centremen and right-handed defensemen”
-reluctant to take back money or retain, at the moment
-have not granted teams permission to talk extension and doesn’t expect to do so
-organization feels they made their absolute best offer to Horvat

Boeser:
-no movement
-contract too unwieldy
-agent hasn’t been able to get the market sling
-teams are interested

Schenn:
-everyone loves him
-leaning towards trading him and engaging in talks on July 1st
-wife is due to give birth in early March and team wants to be respectful of his family situation
-expects a solid return
-most calls expected to come in at trade deadline

Bear:
-management has a very high regard for him
-is due a 2.2m QO and has arbitration rights
-no extension talks but expected to start in February or March

Rathbone:
-hasn’t requested a trade

Buyouts:
-“We’ve previously reported that the Canucks would seriously consider accepting relatively unbalanced returns in order to clear a salary like the one attached to players like Tyler Myers, Tanner Pearson, Conor Garland or Boeser.”
-“From Keith Ballard to Brandon Sutter, buyouts — even of the compliance buyout variety — have traditionally been a tough sell to Canucks ownership.”

Lekkerimaki:
-not fully recovered from concussion
-participation status in doubt

Chychrun:
-Canucks not in on him
-ask is too high and Canucks don’t want to give up their limited assets for him
-Canucks 2023 1st is “not in play”

 

[Canucker]

New Drance and Dhaliwal article over at The Athletic.

Overall, doesn’t feel like it contains any new information that wasn’t revealed earlier today.

Horvat:
-believe it was a max term offer “well shy of 8 million”
-actively engaging in listening to trade offers right now
-“looking for a package including multiple young players — ideally centremen and right-handed defensemen”
-reluctant to take back money or retain, at the moment
-have not granted teams permission to talk extension and doesn’t expect to do so
-organization feels they made their absolute best offer to Horvat

Boeser:
-no movement
-contract too unwieldy
-agent hasn’t been able to get the market sling
-teams are interested

Schenn:
-everyone loves him
-leaning towards trading him and engaging in talks on July 1st
-wife is due to give birth in early March and team wants to be respectful of his family situation
-expects a solid return
-most calls expected to come in at trade deadline

Bear:
-management has a very high regard for him
-is due a 2.2m QO and has arbitration rights
-no extension talks but expected to start in February or March

Rathbone:
-hasn’t requested a trade

Buyouts:
-“We’ve previously reported that the Canucks would seriously consider accepting relatively unbalanced returns in order to clear a salary like the one attached to players like Tyler Myers, Tanner Pearson, Conor Garland or Boeser.”
-“From Keith Ballard to Brandon Sutter, buyouts — even of the compliance buyout variety — have traditionally been a tough sell to Canucks ownership.”

Lekkerimaki:
-not fully recovered from concussion
-participation status in doubt

Chychrun:
-Canucks not in on him
-ask is too high and Canucks don’t want to give up their limited assets for him
-Canucks 2023 1st is “not in play”

Not sure why they wouldn't give permission for teams to discuss extensions with Horvat's group? Teams will want a level of security knowing they can re-sign him before they give up a package of assets...if they don't know they can re-sign him they have to treat him like a rental and offer rental prices.

Also not sure why they wouldn't consider retaining salary (other than Aquilini being a cheap ass) if they could get a better return.

Even the information regarding buyouts is concerning, it just shows that Aquilini's guarding of the purse-strings will likely impact how much management can do to erase Benning's idiocy (and perhaps some of their own in the future).

 

[ziploc]

So, management considers the Boeser contract too unwieldy? Hate to be the people who gave him that contract.

 

[December5th]

So, management considers the Boeser contract too unwieldy? Hate to be the people who gave him that contract.

i have this feeling they signed him because they knew this team would get emo if they didnt sign brock when his dad just died

 

[Aphid Attraction]

i have this feeling they signed him because they knew this team would get emo if they didnt sign brock when his dad just died

If thats the reasoning they could have just qualified him. No this was a longer term asset management decision that back fired.

 

[Diamonddog01]

If thats the reasoning they could have just qualified him. No this was a longer term asset management decision that back fired.

A bit of this is on the player as well. I mean yeah the gambled and lost but he’s been useless when he is capable of playing better (ie 2 years ago).

 

[me2]

i don't see how an oel buyout makes sense until his play completely craters. it gets you cap room in years one and two but years 3 and 4 it's less than 3 mil in savings. those are the critical 'compete' years for this group you would think? if they're not the critical 'compete' years then you may as well hold onto him through them anyways

i guess if they are completely unable to move boeser/garland/myers without taking cap back buying out oel would allow a kuzmenko extension but i would think they would just give up picks at that point to move out money?

edit: actually a boeser buyout or a garland buyout probably makes more sense than moving them with picks. both buyouts get you more than 4 mil per in space for the first two years and have relatively little impact beyond that

Don't get your hopes up. It'll be Pearson.

 

[Gstank]

My understanding of Boeser is that teams are just trying to use his contract as an excuse to not give up a lot for him, but they like the player. Seems like something they will most likely be done in the Summer once we know more about the cap

 

[Soups On]

Just screams of idiocy - this whole thing. If you're gonna sign Miller in the offseason you're saying f*** it were going for it. Get Horvat signed and ready to go.

But now - instead of doing what was seemingly the obvious thing in not signing Miller and Horvat so you can then maximize the return with 50% retained on BOTH players - this team is now forced to trade Bo and have a long term contract with Miller which may not be in line with this teams eventual turnaround.

Shit man - I like Miller despite his dumbass powerplay passing and his pouting, he wants to win. I want these guys to win but management can't make up their minds and it's a slow peeling of a bandaid. When one of the pieces gets traded, I hope it all unfolds. Get Podkolzin, Hoglander, and any of the younger players a f*** ton of ice team, boost the value of Garland and Boeser to figure out if there's a future here. For the love of sushi just sign Kuzmenko and have him on Petey's wing for his career.

 

[me2]

I wonder if we retain 50% on Stillman if we can bring in some future considerations

Just waive him. Costs a lot less on the cap and you get a call up. I thought that was their plan when they traded for him. I guess Dermott being injured and Rathbone sinking at NHL level changed their minds.

 

[brock hughes007]

Management is all talk,,no f--kin action.

 

[me2]

This team continues to walk with one foot on either side of barbed wire fence. Every step is doing damage.

 

[Snatcher Demko]

It's simple, this dumbass management group suckered themselves into thinking they had something real, and bungled the trade deadline. Then went on to do nothing to improve the defense, and figured they could out-score their problems just by adding Mikheyev and Kuzmenko. Signed Boeser and Miller and basically went all in. What they failed to realize is that this core group has character problems and just aren't good enough to be a contender. Demko's stellar play overshadowed a lot of problems. They are not for "real" and they should not have deviated from the original plan.

So now they have to do a full-180 and re-build this thing properly. That means trading all of Horvat, Boeser (retain or take back salary), Miller (take back salary), Kuzmenko, Schenn and then next year Myers/Pearson etc. Tank it this year and get a top 5 pick. Clean it all up next season and buy out OEL if it makes sense. Just do it properly for f***'s sake.

Just don't screw it up with age-gap nonsense and other team's castoffs. I think Allvin isn't all that smart and already got suckered into at least one dumb deal with Dermott. The Stillman deal was awful too, and that 2nd is going to be a high one. Players like Kyrou, Robertson, Debrincat all went in that range in recent years.