Fantasy GM Thread | Two Minutes to Midnight for Horvat?

[Canucker]

So what's the mutual opinion on how to approach Kuzmenko?

I am of the mindset that we should be trying to trade him. His agent stated that he will not open negotiations until the season is done, if that is the case it would seem to signal that he isn't planning on re-signing in Vancouver.

Unless there is something our management knows that I may not be considering, I don't think we can afford to let this guy walk for nothing. We should be able to trade him for a 1st I would think.

He's found money...if he's not interested in signing a reasonable deal I'd have no heartburn in dealing him.

 

[4Twenty]

Haha, I like Horvat even more as he gives them the finger walking out the door. This Miller/Horvat situation is just brutal ... even worse, I firmly believe trading Miller and retaining Horvat (if you weren't trading both) was blatantly the right way to go even without the gift of hindsight.

The only silver lining is now they might now be forced to move both Miller and Horvat because there is no way they can re-sign Horvat.

I disagree. Sign both or trade both. One or the other is a half way measure.

 

[TruGr1t]

I disagree. Sign both or trade both. One or the other is a half way measure.

You straight up cannot afford both. If you had to pick one, it obviously should have been Horvat at his rumoured contract demand earlier in the summer. Not Miller on his atrocious deal.

 

[theguardianII]

Haha, I like Horvat even more as he gives them the finger walking out the door. This Miller/Horvat situation is just brutal ... even worse, I firmly believe trading Miller and retaining Horvat (if you weren't trading both) was blatantly the right way to go even without the gift of hindsight.

Of course Horvat would want to stay, I mean he isn't a slave. He put in his 8/9 years here without a sniff.

I was of that opinion that both needed to go but then I was thinking more a blow it up rather trying to keep and fix this badly and flawed creation that took 7 years to construct.

The part folks have to be concerned about is why players are playing here? The group is not good.
A what point is it just about playing for money, being professional, becoming entertainers.
Especially at this point where there doesn't appear to be any movement forward or backward to get better. Players getting raises to just stay on a loser?

WAaaay back when the Canucks were good I posted they would be bad until fans peed themselves just thinking about possibly making the playoffs.
Now they are doing the pee pee dance with every meaningless stat that can be twisted into a positive.

 

[iFan]

trading Horvat is unfortunately the right move but now you have to move Miller as well because theres zero point in having him here for that term. We will be rebuilding during Miller’s prime years and when we’re ready to compete, he’ll be an anchor. re-signing Miller still annoys me, what a dumb decision by a clueless, desperate group of clowns running this team.

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

The return for Bo will either leave me:

1. Meh
2. Disappointed

I cannot imagine a scenario where a mgmt group who brought Stillman in (and paid a 2nd) will garner a return where I'm happy.

 

[m9]

Disagree Garland makes sense cap hit goes from 5 mil down to less than 2 except one year. Garland is small and 27 this year with 5 more years at 5 mil.

Canuck army had an article about possible defencemen 26 yrs old the Canucks could try for.

Brandon Carlo, Logan Stanley, Kevin Bahl, Andrew Peeke, Lucas Johansen, Sean Durzi, Pierre-Olivier Joseph, Zach Whitecloud, Philippe Myers, Dante Fabbro I left out the 5'9" dmen.

But you are failing to look at how long these hits extend out. You're kicking the can down the road. And for what? To make this current failure of a roster slightly better?

There's a huge caveat here in that we don't know what kind of offers are out there for Garland. A year ago 90% of this board thought Garland's contract was great. I think at the last deadline and through this off-season, people still think he had positive value. He's struggled this year, but I think there would be trade options out there I prefer to a buyout.

And while I never liked Garland's contract - it's not that bad. It's fine. He's probably a 4+ million player and probably not someone that needs to be bought out.

 

[credulous]

So what's the mutual opinion on how to approach Kuzmenko?

I am of the mindset that we should be trying to trade him. His agent stated that he will not open negotiations until the season is done, if that is the case it would seem to signal that he isn't planning on re-signing in Vancouver.

Unless there is something our management knows that I may not be considering, I don't think we can afford to let this guy walk for nothing. We should be able to trade him for a 1st I would think.

if they don't have his signature on an extension by the deadline they need to move him. his value has got to be sky high even as a deadline rental because his cap cost is effectively free (he at most can cost 200k more than whoever he replaces on the roster of the team that acquires him). extending him should be a top priority but seeing him walk would be a disaster

 

[m9]

So what's the mutual opinion on how to approach Kuzmenko?

I am of the mindset that we should be trying to trade him. His agent stated that he will not open negotiations until the season is done, if that is the case it would seem to signal that he isn't planning on re-signing in Vancouver.

Unless there is something our management knows that I may not be considering, I don't think we can afford to let this guy walk for nothing. We should be able to trade him for a 1st I would think.

Kuzmenko can't re-sign until January, but I think in late December/early January you need to see where he is at and move quickly. If he is willing to sign a contract you are comfortable with by say mid-January then I'm good with re-signing him.

But if not - move him, and move him right away. He's not going to be a guy with value at the deadline so you need to jump the queue a bit here. Find a team that has a need for a top-six/PP guy to help them in the regular season. Plus, you can move him sooner since his contract is so low.

A pending UFA winger with suspect defensive skills and no playoff experience is going to have almost no deadline value.

The one part that will be tricky - I'm not sure how it works in terms of his bonuses. Could make a trade more difficult.

 

[iFan]

We need to trade Horvat and Miller by the TDL. We need to also move Myers and Garland as well… probably Kuz because I doubt he’s re-signing here. We need to focus on clearing cap and adding picks. We have to lick our wounds take the step backwards to regroup, there’s no more kicking the can down the road we’ve been doing that for a decade p, there’s no more road left.

 

[m9]

Be less mad at Bo Horvat and more mad at a management group that (allegedly) thought offering Bo 1.5 million/year less than Brock Boeser was reasonable.

 

[Canucks LB]

All right guys, you convinced me, compelling arguments, I’ll walk it back, even if it does leave a little sour taste in my mouth, I’m curious how the situation is all going to unfold.

What kind of realistic return are we even expecting, especially if we won’t go pure futures?

 

[Horvat1C]

Hoglander to NYR for Kravtsov

Boeser to DET for Suter + pick

Schenn anywhere for the highest available pick(s)

Horvat and/or Kuzmenko can be added to the list depending on their contract situation.

 

[Canucks LB]

This is such a stupid position, nothing is going to be more annoying if we’re literally one or two points away from a playoff spot at the deadline.

I almost feel like we have no choice but to go on a huge run here, or just lose every game, so we can pick a direction, even if some ppl are against it.

Doing anything half ass is just pointless

 

[theguardianII]

But you are failing to look at how long these hits extend out. You're kicking the can down the road. And for what? To make this current failure of a roster slightly better?

There's a huge caveat here in that we don't know what kind of offers are out there for Garland. A year ago 90% of this board thought Garland's contract was great. I think at the last deadline and through this off-season, people still think he had positive value. He's struggled this year, but I think there would be trade options out there I prefer to a buyout.

And while I never liked Garland's contract - it's not that bad. It's fine. He's probably a 4+ million player and probably not someone that needs to be bought out.

I never thought it was good. There was no reason for it to be that large or long. He had no pedigree.
A 5th rnd pick and RFA making the league minimum, with no negotiating power.

He goes from a qualifying offer of 840K to getting a 5 mil contract? He was never worth that. A part time player on one of the worst teams in the league.

And as far as his long term cap hit, that is nothing compared to the cap savings and the player that could return.

Even if they kept 50% it would cost the team more cap space for 5 more years.

If they kept him for one more year they could hope his value goes up and then the buyout is reduced by quite a bit.

Sure there was a lot of interest in him, getting him for 2 mil a season might not have been bad. He was a RFA and not many choices.

Just another contract from the agent that Benning signed without any thought. I wonder if he even knew Garland was a RFA?

 

[Nucker101]

This is such a stupid position, nothing is going to be more annoying if we’re literally one or two points away from a playoff spot at the deadline.

I almost feel like we have no choice but to go on a huge run here, or just lose every game, so we can pick a direction, even if some ppl are against it.

Doing anything half ass is just pointless

That’s been this organization’s MO for almost a decade now lol

 

[TruGr1t]

This is such a stupid position, nothing is going to be more annoying if we’re literally one or two points away from a playoff spot at the deadline.

I almost feel like we have no choice but to go on a huge run here, or just lose every game, so we can pick a direction, even if some ppl are against it.

Doing anything half ass is just pointless

I don't see how you trade Horvat and make the playoffs. Especially since it likely won't be a 1-for-1 trade with a similar calibre of prime player coming back the other way. I imagine there will be an element of "futures" to the package.

It seems pretty unlikely you trade Horvat and improve the team this season.

 

[wonton15]

Stuck with Miller and Boeser and end up having to trade Bo

This was EXACTLY what a large group of us here on HF predicted before Miller was signed. This is just Benning 2.0.

Next up: Petey will refuse to sign and we end up having to ask Quinn about his future too. The 20 year retool

 

[bossram]

I don't see how you trade Horvat and make the playoffs. Especially since it likely won't be a 1-for-1 trade with a similar calibre of prime player coming back the other way. I imagine there will be an element of "futures" to the package.

It seems pretty unlikely you trade Horvat and improve the team this season.

Yep. If you're trading Horvat, the jig is up. Give it up JR. It needs to be done. Rebuild.

Just a comically, pathetically run organization. They want to retool and make the playoffs at the same time. Commit a boatload of money to JT Miller. Consequently go out and lose their captain and 2C. Like...do you not have a plan? Are you going to make the playoffs next season without Bo?

Every decision is just a reaction. There was clearly no direction. They wanted to have Miller and Bo in the retooled core, but now are forced to change course. Hilarious.

 

[supercanuck]

Hopefully this means they will try to trade Miller too. Without Bo, this team is in the running for Bedard, IMO.

 

[theguardianII]

This is such a stupid position, nothing is going to be more annoying if we’re literally one or two points away from a playoff spot at the deadline.

I almost feel like we have no choice but to go on a huge run here, or just lose every game, so we can pick a direction, even if some ppl are against it.

Doing anything half ass is just pointless

3 pts out of the last WC spot today.
A month ago the team was 4 pts out.
The first month was terrible
But the last 4 weeks is supposed to have been much better

Gee, I wonder what happened? Maybe the other teams played better too?

Yep, don't just dip your toe in the water, dive in.

Kuz will be nuts to sign for more than 4 mil but he has all the teams to compete for him and against the Canucks.
Pretty sure if Washington calls he goes.

A good signing and a player that is improving.
But worth more to the Canucks in a trade than to keep at this point.
If Garland got 5 mil for 40 points what will Kuz get? He already has almost a point a game.

But like Schenn with his cap hit the team might make a haul.

Schenn could get a 1rst back other players like him have but Kuzmenko will get a first back especially if he has 50+ points before the TDL. IMO once he hits 50 points the Canucks cannot sign him.

Why do most posters think Horvat even wants to be here? You have to believe this management group approached both Miller and Horvat agents about extensions and one said yes and the other didn't.

You believe that out of 4 GM's one didn't think of approaching the Captain of the team?
By now I think Horvat's camp already stated he was going to move on. Of course he is going to say he wants to stay otherwise he cripples the Canucks trade position.

I think they still panicked though thinking they couldn't lose both Horvat and Miller in their misguided belief that the last 50 games last year was the real version of the this group.

Losing Horvat will not bury the team nor will losing Kuzmenko and Miller. There are teams out there without high scoring forwards that are ahead and pulling away from the Canucks now with them on the roster.

The recent Horvat refusing is so this management group doesn't look bad if anything they look good for fandom.

Time has allowed fans to get used to him moving on.

All the Horvat talk also distracts from Kuzmenko.

 

[Nucker101]

The fact they came back to offer Bo one last offer is pretty telling. A team looking to blow it up doesn’t make that offer. We’re still operating in never-ending retool on the fly mode

 

[mriswith]

Trade Horvat and buy out players in summer You can't make this stuff up.

I believe nothing until I see it with this mgmt group

 

[racerjoe]

The fact they came back to offer Bo one last offer is pretty telling. A team looking to blow it up doesn’t make that offer. We’re still operating in never-ending retool on the fly mode

Thats what management has maintained they were trying to do is retool. When did you think things changed?

Trade Horvat and buy out players in summer You can't make this stuff up.

I believe nothing until I see it with this mgmt group

Why would you believe the media when have they been correct?

For the record I think the Canucks made a contract offer, and I think Rick got this info from the agent, and I think the rest is rick just guessing, and he is a moron at that side of it.

 

[TruGr1t]

The fact they came back to offer Bo one last offer is pretty telling. A team looking to blow it up doesn’t make that offer. We’re still operating in never-ending retool on the fly mode

The salary cap will literally save the franchise in the end. They painted themselves so far into a corner they'll have no choice. No matter what ownership wants.