Fantasy GM Thread | Two Minutes to Midnight for Horvat?

[Luck 6]

I just hope we don’t end up with the ‘Kesler’ return. It’s definitely a possibility though. And it wasn’t a terrible return so much as it could have been much better had they been willing to be more patient and take futures. But they wanted a replacement C and a young dman. Sound familiar?

I don’t think we’re going to get a whole lot better than that really…

A 1st, a young ish RHD with top 4 potential, and a 3C type of player in their mid twenties.

Our pro scouting did a bad job in the Kesler deal is the problem…

 

[Bojack Horvatman]

I mostly disliked it as I wasn’t a fan of Lundkvist’s fit with this team and didn’t expect him to still have 1st round pick value. But to think we could be going into this offseason with Pettersson/Horvat/Chytll at center, 2 additional prospects selected with 1st round picks, and an additional $8M(minus what Horvat’s extension would’ve been if signed when Miller was re-signed), and it’s a big loss. Instead we have Miller at wing and potentially two huge holes at center.

Yeah I felt the same way about Lundqvist. I would of been fine at the time if Lundqvist was replaced with a better prospect or another first. I was higher on Chytil than most though. He was even strength production in third line minutes was very good in the 2020 and 2021 seasons. Particularly in 2021. Although he had a down year last year. He’s very productive again at ES again this year, and even has more points than Miller at ES in 6 less games and playing less minutes a game. We absolutely should of been retaining 50% to try and get Schneider though.

 

[racerjoe]

For sure...I'd say the jury was still out on JR/PA....nothing overwhelmingly good or bad.

I agree nothing good nor bad, but I do think their pro scouting has been great. So I chose to be hopeful, but understand I could be wrong.

I just hope we don’t end up with the ‘Kesler’ return. It’s definitely a possibility though. And it wasn’t a terrible return so much as it could have been much better had they been willing to be more patient and take futures. But they wanted a replacement C and a young dman. Sound familiar?

The return on Kesler was bad from pro scouting. That is a home run return if JB takes either Theodore or Vatanen instead of Sbisa, and this was a confirmed option.

 

[PavelBure10]

I'm expecting a bit better than the Kesler trade. Let's not forget that Kesler himself painted the Canucks into a corner by Only selecting Anaheim as his trade destination. The Ducks GM knew this and totally taken advantage of that. The ball was in his court.

Theoretically it should be better anyways, but then again I really don't have faith in the Canucks new management either.

 

[Canucker]

I agree nothing good nor bad, but I do think their pro scouting has been great. So I chose to be hopeful, but understand I could be wrong.

"Great" is a little strong for me, but I'd say it's been better than Benning by a good margin.

 

[credulous]

i don't think their pro scouting has been very good. studnicka, aman and lazar have barely been nhlers. bear has been about what was expected (a 4-5 dman). mikheyev has been better offensively than i expected but worse defensively and hasn't really shown anything on the pk. only really joshua has been a pro scouting success

 

[me2]

Can already see mgmt screwing up a Horvat deal like they did Miller.

Honestly. Who gives a shit if another team wants to talk extension if you are going to deal him?

The only explanation is they are still thinking of trying to re sign him.

It’s insanity.

CBJ: Bo would you take $8mx8 in July to come here
Bo: done deal
CBJ: see you then
Van: great. So what are you offering now you have your deal with Bo?
CBJ: nothing. Hahaha

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

CBJ: Bo would you take $8mx8 in July to come here
Bo: done deal
CBJ: see you then
Van: great. So what are you offering now you have your deal with Bo?
CBJ: nothing. Hahaha

Well they can’t offer him 8yrs then so jokes on them.

 

[vancityluongo]

I'm expecting a bit better than the Kesler trade. Let's not forget that Kesler himself painted the Canucks into a corner by Only selecting Anaheim as his trade destination. The Ducks GM knew this and totally taken advantage of that. The ball was in his court.

Theoretically it should be better anyways, but then again I really don't have faith in the Canucks new management either.

kesler had an additional year left on his contract tho

bo does also have age, reputation (canadian, family oriented guy who doesn't have rumours of infidelity with the partner of a teammate, etc.) and general health / lack of injuries going for him... but kesler was a better player, even considering this breakout year.

management should be better now than benning but i'd be surprised if we get much better than a borderline young player / age gap asset + a reasonable middle-6 center and a 1st.

the player that scares me as a potential center piece of a return is kotkaniemi

 

[me2]

Well they can’t offer him 8yrs then so jokes on them.

Touche.

Most realistically though (assuming no would go to CBJ which I doubt)

CBJ: how much?
Bo: $8mx8 sign and trade
Van: good to go?
CBJ: click

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

Touche.

Most realistically though (assuming no would go to CBJ which I doubt)

CBJ: how much?
Bo: $8mx8 sign and trade
Van: good to go?
CBJ: click

I think most know roughly what Bo is looking for.

And someone will be willing to pay.

Question is: is the trading team looking purely for rental or for LT as well?

I’d say right now, more likely the former.

 

[Vector]

Well they can’t offer him 8yrs then so jokes on them.

It’s also not how those situations ever work out. The Canucks could file a grievance and charge tampering against the offending team and would win.

 

[credulous]

they don't want teams negotiating with horvat because they still might want to resign him (no one wants to trade for him, aquilini vetos a trade for pure futures, he suffers a season ending injury before any trade can be made) and they don't want his agent getting alternative offers

 

[Peter Griffin]

Can already see mgmt screwing up a Horvat deal like they did Miller.

Honestly. Who gives a shit if another team wants to talk extension if you are going to deal him?

The only explanation is they are still thinking of trying to re sign him.

It’s insanity.

This is exactly what is happening here. I don’t fault them at this point but if come February he’s not re-signed and it’s looking like it’s not going to happen they need to do whatever is needed to maximize his return. My fear is we’ll have our own Gaudreau situation on our hands where the “self rent” Horvat to make a playoff push.

 

[Bobby9]

You think a sign and trade Bo could pull K Miller out of NYC?

 

[Gstank]

i don't think their pro scouting has been very good. studnicka, aman and lazar have barely been nhlers. bear has been about what was expected (a 4-5 dman). mikheyev has been better offensively than i expected but worse defensively and hasn't really shown anything on the pk. only really joshua has been a pro scouting success

Bear was basically Waivers bound when we picked him up to say they trade him along with a good AHLer knowing he was a 4/5 is just dumb.

Aman was a wildcard who has turned into a 4th liner. He might have a little more upside then that but it will take a season or 2 to see if he does.

Studnicka its too early to say what he is.

Joshua was a top 6 AHL who has turned into a Bottom 6 NHLer. Thats a win for any team

You're forgetting about Johannson as well who has been a fantastic pickup

 

[lawrence]

I think jr who should be retried, is provably willing to accept any gig given to him. It’s why he took it.

He could have been living at home with his family not making money, or be a teams president, bark some orders, or be barked at by owners, and take a 1 million dollar salary.

Jr is ok being a puppet. Clearly he will try to win a cup.

We are so done. There’s no hope.

 

[Sebastien]

You think a sign and trade Bo could pull K Miller out of NYC?

Lol Rangers say hell no

 

[Just A Bit Outside]

You think a sign and trade Bo could pull K Miller out of NYC?

No chance

 

[Canucks LB]

After my ownership rant, I have a little more things I was thinking about.

For example, it could honestly just be ownership, saying, OK, you want to trade, Horvat, Great! It HAS to be a hockey Deal, not a Futures one.

What’s that, you can’t find a hockey deal, great, go sign him, no matter what.

This could’ve happened last year with JT Miller, the noise was way too loud, he could’ve said, great do you want to trade Miller, make it a hockey trade, oh, you want a future trade?, sorry, get him signed.

It just makes no sense how Rutherford is one of the most famous wheel and dealing figures in hockey and now suddenly struggles to find a deal.

 

[credulous]

Bear was basically Waivers bound when we picked him up to say they trade him along with a good AHLer knowing he was a 4/5 is just dumb.

Aman was a wildcard who has turned into a 4th liner. He might have a little more upside then that but it will take a season or 2 to see if he does.

Studnicka its too early to say what he is.

Joshua was a top 6 AHL who has turned into a Bottom 6 NHLer. Thats a win for any team

You're forgetting about Johannson as well who has been a fantastic pickup

this is just table stakes. every nhl team can find players for the fringes of the roster

bear came cheap because he's relatively expensive and didn't fit in carolina's roster. other teams that could have used him didn't have the cap space to pick him up. getting pederson was just carolina offloading payroll on the canucks. they agreed to take pederson to get a 'discount' on bear

aman, studnicka and lazar haven't really been any better than highmore, lammikko and richardson. they're fine but if fine is your benchmark for pro scouting success then you are in big trouble

johansson is a good pickup in the context of vancouver's barren system but he's likely to top out as a middle pairing AHLer. it's way too early to call him a pro scouting success

there's also dermott who came with a steep price and showed basically nothing in his appearances last season. we'll see if he can show anything when he comes back

and stillman of course who has been a disaster

kalynuk, wolanin and delia have also not really been very successful but given they were signed for AHL depth that's not really a mark against the pro scouting

joshua is good. i don't dispute that. it takes more than a single hit to call this team good at pro scouting though

 

[me2]

I’d say right now, more likely the former.

I feel the same. If I had to guess. Playoff rental: 10ish teams. Milk that group.

 

[Delocatedfan]

I doubt Carolina does this as they typically dont make trades of this magnitude but what about Drury + Morrow + 1st for Bo 50% retained?

Drury is the Bo replacement, Morrow & 1st are futures part of the deal & Vancouver helps on the cap front by retaining the max they can.

I am guessing thats to rich for Carolina to pull the trigger. Bo would be great under Brindamour though & would give them another great centre

 

[credulous]

I doubt Carolina does this as they typically dont make trades of this magnitude but what about Drury + Morrow + 1st for Bo 50% retained?

Drury is the Bo replacement, Morrow & 1st are futures part of the deal & Vancouver helps on the cap front by retaining the max they can.

I am guessing thats to rich for Carolina to pull the trigger. Bo would be great under Brindamour though & would give them another great centre

i don't think carolina would give up morrow straight up for horvat. not their style. if they acquire a center at the deadline it'll probably be monahan for cheap

 

[Vector]