Prospect Info: Fabian Lysell

[Gator Mike]

There's no way I'd trade Lysell for a rental.

For a guy who's relatively young with some term? Maybe.

But this team needs to stop giving away high draft picks and good prospects for short-term fixes.

 

[The National]

I keep feeling like I’m missing something about including Hertl in this response. He’s likely at his peak now and chances are his production will be generally starting to decline in the coming years. His career high is 74 points 4 seasons ago. As a UFA, his price would surely be very high come summer to sign into upcoming seasons. Trading Lysell would immediately put the Bruins in a position of being basically forced to win a bidding war no matter the prevailing rate.

That kind of risk is worth your probably #1 F prospect? Again, I’m just asking because I feel like I must be missing something or there is another Hertl I don’t know about.

Chychrun on the other hand I totally understand being traded for with the top prospect. He’s a budding star on D and is only 24. Him and Charlie on the team for the foreseeable future is a dream, no matter what they do with the roster in coming years.

Bruins don’t have much of an option, 1c’s don’t become available very often and we don’t have anything really coming. Lysell would probably be a last resort but it’s something I’d consider if needed. Would have to guarantee an extension though.

 

[Colt.45Orr]

Chychrun worries me because his high pt totals correspond with 1st unit PP time and that is McAvoy's baby (unless we went with 2 D on 1st unit)

 

[Colt.45Orr]

Lysell isn't enough to get Miller on his own.

 

[Saxon Eric]

This is interesting. Maybe @Saxon Eric can shed some light for me? I guess what doesn't make sense to me is if you are not going for it and are selling off assets, why hold onto your best asset? Wouldn't that be managing your assets properly?

I didn't want him there in the first place lol but knowing the Bruins they probably don't want him traded to just anyone, maybe they find the right fit and it works out but as @Colt.45Orr says Vancouver likes to make money too, I mean I'd pay to see Lysell play

 

[CharasLazyWrister]

Bruins don’t have much of an option, 1c’s don’t become available very often and we don’t have anything really coming. Lysell would probably be a last resort but it’s something I’d consider if needed. Would have to guarantee an extension though.

I can’t imagine how you’d win an offer in which there is an extension on Hertl by only dangling Lysell. Moreover, I can’t see Hertl not wanting to test the UFA market given his situation. He is going to have the choice of where he goes and he’s going to get a big contract with NMC most likely. Given his age, some team is going to be taking what is likely a sizable risk. Given the Bruins’ roster/projected future, should it really be them?

There are teams closer to a Cup, with prospects, that would inevitably win in the event of one of those (with an extension) deals. When is the last time a sign and trade on a player of Hertl’s caliber happened?

 

[neelynugs]

There are teams closer to a Cup, with prospects, that would inevitably win in the event of one of those (with an extension) deals. When is the last time a sign and trade on a player of Hertl’s caliber happened?

mark stone. not sure "sign and trade" is 100% accurate, but vegas knew he was signing when they made the deal.

 

[CharasLazyWrister]

mark stone. not sure "sign and trade" is 100% accurate, but vegas knew he was signing when they made the deal.

Good call. Very close in age too.

So I guess the next question is are there fans here ready to put down 9+ million AAV on Hertl for 8 years as well as give up Lysell +?

Considering where this team is at, I am not.

 

[neelynugs]

Good call. Very close in age too.

So I guess the next question is are there fans here ready to put down 9+ million AAV on Hertl for 8 years as well as give up Lysell +?

Considering where this team is at, I am not.

if hertl agrees to an extension, i wouldn't even blink at including lysell in the trade.
but that's MO, am sure others differ in their opinion.

 

[CharasLazyWrister]

if hertl agrees to an extension, i wouldn't even blink at including lysell in the trade.
but that's MO, am sure others differ in their opinion.

Gotcha.

Personally, I feel that we're too far out to go for it. You're going to sign a guy to a huge deal, and it's unlikely (IMO) that we compete in at least the first half of that timeframe. By the second half, he's pushing his mid 30's. Right now, this team is a bottom rung playoff team, exactly where their current standing shows. I think we go down from here, even adding a forward like Hertl, for at least a few years until going back up whether that be from finally solidifying the prospect pool and/or good pro scouting. I don't want it to be true, but it's my "educated" guess based on circumstances.

 

[loosemoose]

Good call. Very close in age too.

So I guess the next question is are there fans here ready to put down 9+ million AAV on Hertl for 8 years as well as give up Lysell +?

Considering where this team is at, I am not.

I think you'd have to be very optimistic about Lysell to believe that he'll bring similar value to the Bruins than what Hertl would for the next few years. Lysell has high ceiling, but his average projection is probably around DeBrusk's level with floor of not even becoming an NHL player. Hertl on the other hand is one of the best two-way centers in the league and still has good seasons left in him.

Not that I'd be eager to trade Lysell, but Hertl is a pretty rare kind of player and they are absolutely desperate for someone like him both for the short and long term.

 

[the negotiator]

if hertl agrees to an extension, i wouldn't even blink at including lysell in the trade.
but that's MO, am sure others differ in their opinion.

This is a tough one

To me the answer isn't Lysell and Hertl in isolation

First - what other assets are traded to acquire Hertl

And - is DeBrusk part of a Hertl deal or does he go in a different deal to bring something back

And- do we solve the equally large ( if not larger ) gap on D

one player....and I think Hertl is very, very good...doesn't make the Bs a serious contender . Sweeney needs to engineer a series of multiple trades- and I don't know if he has either the appetite or the vision to get it accomplished

 

[22Brad Park]

I think you'd have to be very optimistic about Lysell to believe that he'll bring similar value to the Bruins than what Hertl would for the next few years. Lysell has high ceiling, but his average projection is probably around DeBrusk's level with floor of not even becoming an NHL player. Hertl on the other hand is one of the best two-way centers in the league and still has good seasons left in him.

Not that I'd be eager to trade Lysell, but Hertl is a pretty rare kind of player and they are absolutely desperate for someone like him both for the short and long term.

You need to go watch Lysell cause your opinion on him is way off. Floor level maybe not be NHL level give me a break

 

[The National]

I can’t imagine how you’d win an offer in which there is an extension on Hertl by only dangling Lysell. Moreover, I can’t see Hertl not wanting to test the UFA market given his situation. He is going to have the choice of where he goes and he’s going to get a big contract with NMC most likely. Given his age, some team is going to be taking what is likely a sizable risk. Given the Bruins’ roster/projected future, should it really be them?

There are teams closer to a Cup, with prospects, that would inevitably win in the event of one of those (with an extension) deals. When is the last time a sign and trade on a player of Hertl’s caliber happened?

I meant including him as part of a package.

 

[CharasLazyWrister]

I think you'd have to be very optimistic about Lysell to believe that he'll bring similar value to the Bruins than what Hertl would for the next few years. Lysell has high ceiling, but his average projection is probably around DeBrusk's level with floor of not even becoming an NHL player. Hertl on the other hand is one of the best two-way centers in the league and still has good seasons left in him.

Not that I'd be eager to trade Lysell, but Hertl is a pretty rare kind of player and they are absolutely desperate for someone like him both for the short and long term.

I guess I should clarify: I think the team likely has some time ahead in the next maybe few years of no playoffs period. Signing Hertl won't change it. There's too many gaps that are incoming and they aren't going to be able to be filled in the UFA market.

Maybe I'm a pessimist for that assessment, but slapping down a huge, high dollar commitment on a player likely to be past his prime by the time we are competing again is a risk too big to take IMO. Adding in that it's going to cost us our number 1 forward prospect (who I very much admit comes with no guarantees himself) just takes it to another level.

 

[CharasLazyWrister]

I meant including him as part of a package.

Sure.

I just think there are better "packages" that will be offered by teams in a better place to win sooner, with Hertl still in his prime. Considering Hertl is going into UFA, he likely is in a spot where he wants the biggest offer from a team competing for the Cup in the very near future. Along with other teams simply having better packages, I can't see Hertl thinking this is the right situation for him at this moment even if the Bruins were to somehow swing a deal with the Sharks and agree to whatever extension Hertl got...which I don't think he will take because UFA is likely the best situation for him given his age and potential immediate impact.

 

[CharasLazyWrister]

This is a tough one

To me the answer isn't Lysell and Hertl in isolation

First - what other assets are traded to acquire Hertl

And - is DeBrusk part of a Hertl deal or does he go in a different deal to bring something back

And- do we solve the equally large ( if not larger ) gap on D

one player....and I think Hertl is very, very good...doesn't make the Bs a serious contender . Sweeney needs to engineer a series of multiple trades- and I don't know if he has either the appetite or the vision to get it accomplished

...or the ability given what he's got to work with.

Unless he guts the team as it is now (which they of course will not), I don't see how Sweeney or any GM takes the assets this franchise has and makes it a contender again in any sort of brief timeframe.

I feel kind of dumb saying all this because I'm always ripping on the "we're going to compete in 3-5 years for the Cup" cliche that always seems to be uttered by up and coming teams (which we are not yet). But just due to the sum of all parts, I can't at all envision competing soon.

 

[Dr Hook]

...or the ability given what he's got to work with.

Unless he guts the team as it is now (which they of course will not), I don't see how Sweeney or any GM takes the assets this franchise has and makes it a contender again in any sort of brief timeframe.

I feel kind of dumb saying all this because I'm always ripping on the "we're going to compete in 3-5 years for the Cup" cliche that always seems to be uttered by up and coming teams (which we are not yet). But just due to the sum of all parts, I can't at all envision competing soon.

A team with Marchand, Pasta, and Taylor Hall in your forward lines and McAvoy as your #1 is not competitive enough to build around? It's not like all the Bruins core players are aging out here. You bring a center like Hertl, a top 4 LD, and what giant holes are left that require a 3-4 year rebuild?

 

[The National]

Sure.

I just think there are better "packages" that will be offered by teams in a better place to win sooner, with Hertl still in his prime. Considering Hertl is going into UFA, he likely is in a spot where he wants the biggest offer from a team competing for the Cup in the very near future. Along with other teams simply having better packages, I can't see Hertl thinking this is the right situation for him at this moment even if the Bruins were to somehow swing a deal with the Sharks and agree to whatever extension Hertl got...which I don't think he will take because UFA is likely the best situation for him given his age and potential immediate impact.

Yeah not sure what the exact package would be but if it required Lysell to get him here I’d probably do it. No clue what Hertl wants or what attracts him to Boston, he’s friends with Pasta but I don’t know if that’s enough to attract him here. Last I saw he wanted to stay with the Sharks but money is usually pretty convincing and he’ll get the most on the open market.

 

[CharasLazyWrister]

A team with Marchand, Pasta, and Taylor Hall in your forward lines and McAvoy as your #1 is not competitive enough to build around? It's not like all the Bruins core players are aging out here. You bring a center like Hertl, a top 4 LD, and what giant holes are left that require a 3-4 year rebuild?

Bergeron is still playing very good hockey, but he's due for a comedown. Just due to age. And I'm not one who buys into the whole "but his game relies mostly on smarts which isn't as affected with age" adage, because it's the exact same line I was given for Loui Eriksson every time I expressed concern about his advancing age prior to him signing elsewhere. Not that the circumstances of those two players is nearly identical. But assuming a player even of Bergeron's reliability (aside from much earlier in his career) is going to maintain his production from one year to the next is an optimistic view in my mind and you can't count on it.

With that in mind, Brad of course is well on the other side of 30. Taylor Hall is a player I really like but isn't going to "get better" at this point. He's also not at the same level as Brad and Patrice. Add Hertl to the "not likely to continue getting better" pile given his age.

The best spot to be in for SC winning teams are having a balance of top 6 players on the upswing and guys at their peak. Along with obviously other intangibles. I don't see that happening based on this current roster construction.

Now of course there are actual players who I don't think see it my way at all. Example a. Taylor Hall. He signed here because he wanted to be in Boston and he seemed to genuinely feel this team could contend for the foreseeable future. I hope he's right. But I'm not counting on being Cup contenders any time in the very near future and I don't think we have the assets to pull off a quick fix one way or the other.

 

[Dr Hook]

Bergeron is still playing very good hockey, but he's due for a comedown. Just due to age. And I'm not one who buys into the whole "but his game relies mostly on smarts which isn't as affected with age" adage, because it's the exact same line I was given for Loui Eriksson every time I expressed concern about his advancing age prior to him signing elsewhere. Not that the circumstances of those two players is nearly identical. But assuming a player even of Bergeron's reliability (aside from much earlier in his career) is going to maintain his production from one year to the next is an optimistic view in my mind and you can't count on it.

With that in mind, Brad of course is well on the other side of 30. Taylor Hall is a player I really like but isn't going to "get better" at this point. He's also not at the same level as Brad and Patrice. Add Hertl to the "not likely to continue getting better" pile given his age.

The best spot to be in for SC winning teams are having a balance of top 6 players on the upswing and guys at their peak. Along with obviously other intangibles. I don't see that happening based on this current roster construction.

Now of course there are actual players who I don't think see it my way at all. Example a. Taylor Hall. He signed here because he wanted to be in Boston and he seemed to genuinely feel this team could contend for the foreseeable future. I hope he's right. But I'm not counting on being Cup contenders any time in the very near future and I don't think we have the assets to pull off a quick fix one way or the other.

Fair enough, and I appreciate the thoughtful response. I am more optimistic than you are, but of course that is all part of this community we have. I hope my optimism is right and you are wrong, but I fully acknowledge that you could end up being correct here.

 

[MarchysNoseKnows]

Bergeron is still playing very good hockey, but he's due for a comedown. Just due to age. And I'm not one who buys into the whole "but his game relies mostly on smarts which isn't as affected with age" adage, because it's the exact same line I was given for Loui Eriksson every time I expressed concern about his advancing age prior to him signing elsewhere. Not that the circumstances of those two players is nearly identical. But assuming a player even of Bergeron's reliability (aside from much earlier in his career) is going to maintain his production from one year to the next is an optimistic view in my mind and you can't count on it.

With that in mind, Brad of course is well on the other side of 30. Taylor Hall is a player I really like but isn't going to "get better" at this point. He's also not at the same level as Brad and Patrice. Add Hertl to the "not likely to continue getting better" pile given his age.

The best spot to be in for SC winning teams are having a balance of top 6 players on the upswing and guys at their peak. Along with obviously other intangibles. I don't see that happening based on this current roster construction.

Now of course there are actual players who I don't think see it my way at all. Example a. Taylor Hall. He signed here because he wanted to be in Boston and he seemed to genuinely feel this team could contend for the foreseeable future. I hope he's right. But I'm not counting on being Cup contenders any time in the very near future and I don't think we have the assets to pull off a quick fix one way or the other.

I think you’re certainly overly pessimistic about the Bruins roster for the next 3-5 years, but also probably overly optimistic that there are teams in better positions that don’t have a 1 or 2C and can afford to give Hertl $8M+ for 7 years. What teams, with their roster and cap situations, can do this who are more sure fire contenders?

 

[CharasLazyWrister]

I think you’re certainly overly pessimistic about the Bruins roster for the next 3-5 years, but also probably overly optimistic that there are teams in better positions that don’t have a 1 or 2C and can afford to give Hertl $8M+ for 7 years. What teams, with their roster and cap situations, can do this who are more sure fire contenders?

Well, for example, the Rangers could trade away someone like Lafreniere and/or whatever else to make a run now and use Hertl as a rental. That's the type of situation I see happening. Obviously that's a risk...but if you're going for a Cup this year....

I guess my biggest point is that I find a sign and trade to be a very unlikely scenario.

If the Bruins are going to get Hertl, I think it would be as a UFA. It wouldn't be in a trade. But I would still be hesitant about the term and money.

 

[MarchysNoseKnows]

Well, for example, the Rangers could trade away someone like Lafreniere and/or whatever else to make a run now and use Hertl as a rental. That's the type of situation I see happening. Obviously that's a risk...but if you're going for a Cup this year....

I guess my biggest point is that I find a sign and trade to be a very unlikely scenario.

For a rental sure - Wild could do that too. Hertl also can control exactly who he wants to go to as well (and that may not include the Bruins obviously). But going forward - there aren’t a lot of options for Hertl who are better than the Bruins and that should at least be a factor.

 

[GordonHowe]

Lysell isn't enough to get Miller on his own.

Nucks not trading JT.