F Rodion Amirov (2020, 15th, TOR) - tragically passed away due to brain tumor 8/14/23

[Stephen]

If you took a hard look at the numbers, there’s way more misses when players come over too early. Lots of talented players have their development halted.

Also, a lot of Russian draft picks who stay home never make it either.

Think it just comes down to the individual, the NHL club that drafts them, the resources put into their skills development and cultural acclimatization and city these kids end up in. No real hard and fast rules.

 

[theslatcher]

If you took a hard look at the numbers, there’s way more misses when players come over too early. Lots of talented players have their development halted.

How can you quantify how much of that is actually due to the players coming over "too early", though? Of course there'll be less misses if players come over later in their careers, as they're more of a known quantity, and the ones who had their development not progress as wanted, won't be attractive to bring over.

 

[3 Minute Minor]

The AHL season just started and the KHL Playoffs are starting... Theoretically he could come over and play in the AHL now and it could give the Leafs an idea of where he'd be better suited for next year

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Not really. The history of a guy like Panarin or Kaprizov shows us that staying in Russia was the correct development path in those cases, but you could point to guys like Kucherov, Svechnikov who came over during the junior careers and that was fine too. Just a case by case situation as well as the ability of the player.

Svechnikov is the one outlier they always point to. Maybe Radulov, as well, but that was 15 years ago now. Kucherov as a NA product is hilarious. He played 50 games in NA before reaching the AHL. Two of his 3 prior seasons in MHL/VHL/KHL he totaled 50+ games.

 

[Stephen]

Svechnikov is the one outlier they always point to. Maybe Radulov, as well, but that was 15 years ago now. Kucherov as a NA product is hilarious. He played 50 games in NA before reaching the AHL. Two of his 3 prior seasons in MHL/VHL/KHL he totaled 50+ games.

Who said anything about being labeled an NA product?

Sergachev and Provorov are also a couple more high end Russians who came over to North America early and doesn’t seem to have ruined their NHL careers.

 

[FlyguyOX]

Who said anything about being labeled an NA product?

Sergachev and Provorov are also a couple more high end Russians who came over to North America early and doesn’t seem to have ruined their NHL careers.

Provorov doesn’t even have a Russian accent he’s been over in NA so long

 

[Kshahdoo]

Playing for $90k in the AHL or for $500k (or even more) in the KHL... hmm, tough choice.

 

[3 Minute Minor]

Playing for $90k in the AHL or for $500k (or even more) in the KHL... hmm, tough choice.

The classic KHL money exaggeration.

19 year old rookies aren't getting 500k in the KHL

 

[Kshahdoo]

The classic KHL money exaggeration.

19 year old rookies aren't getting 500k in the KHL

He'll get it for sure in his new conract.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Who said anything about being labeled an NA product?

Sergachev and Provorov are also a couple more high end Russians who came over to North America early and doesn’t seem to have ruined their NHL careers.

When you have to use a defenseman as an example for a forward, that should tell you there aren't many good examples.

 

[Stephen]

When you have to use a defenseman as an example for a forward, that should tell you there aren't many good examples.

The original comment was about the "history of Russian players" being ruined coming over to North America so it was never specific to forwards.

Now we have a good working list of young Russians who came over to North America at a young age and did very well in recent years: Kucherov, Svechnikov, Sergachev, Provorov.

Who are all the blue chips that came over at a young age and were "ruined"? Yakupov and Filatov?

 

[Namikaze Minato]

Bring him over after the KHL season ends, let him play the rest of this year in the AHL and him and his agent can make a decision on what they believe is best.

We get it, russian posters are desperate to have "their" players stay, it makes sense to me but each player is going to be different. Whats best for him will be decided by his management team and the Leafs management team.

 

[Kshahdoo]

Bring him over after the KHL season ends, let him play the rest of this year in the AHL and him and his agent can make a decision on what they believe is best.

We get it, russian posters are desperate to have "their" players stay, it makes sense to me but each player is going to be different. Whats best for him will be decided by his management team and the Leafs management team.

He won't be able to play in the AHL without signing a contract with Toronto. And as soon as he signs a contract, it's Toronto management, who will decide, what is good and what is bad for him, not he.

 

[3 Minute Minor]

He won't be able to play in the AHL without signing a contract with Toronto. And as soon as he signs a contract, it's Toronto management, who will decide, what is good and what is bad for him, not he.

I believe he can sign an ATO for the remainder of the season with the Marlies and hold off on his ELC. Oskar Lindbolm did something similar with Philly a few years back before returning to SHL for a season and signing his ELC at the end of that season

 

[Coaches Coroner]

Svechnikov is the one outlier they always point to. Maybe Radulov, as well, but that was 15 years ago now. Kucherov as a NA product is hilarious. He played 50 games in NA before reaching the AHL. Two of his 3 prior seasons in MHL/VHL/KHL he totaled 50+ games.

When you have to use a defenseman as an example for a forward, that should tell you there aren't many good examples.

When you didn't specify forward or defense and someone shows examples that refute you're statement and you move the goalposts. Seems to happen often lol

 

[4thline]

Svechnikov is the one outlier they always point to. Maybe Radulov, as well, but that was 15 years ago now. Kucherov as a NA product is hilarious. He played 50 games in NA before reaching the AHL. Two of his 3 prior seasons in MHL/VHL/KHL he totaled 50+ games.

Kucherov came over earlier than the guy who's name is on the thread could without a time machine.

We're talking about a player that is no longer WJC eligible coming over after their U20 season is over to play in a first class professional organization, not a 17 year old coming over to play junior in Red Deer.

 

[TheKrebsCycle]

I'm fine w Amirov staying in K another year so long as the minutes are there/doesn't get buried due to clear NHL aspirations.

 

[Stephen]

Kucherov came over earlier than the guy who's name is on the thread could without a time machine.

We're talking about a player that is no longer WJC eligible coming over after their U20 season is over to play in a first class professional organization, not a 17 year old coming over to play junior in Red Deer.

Agreed. Amirov wouldn’t even be coming over until his draft plus two season at the earliest if the Leafs were to expedite his move to North America as soon as next season, so we aren’t even talking about the CHL as a viable route other than to refute the idea that Russians who come over to North America somehow get ruined.

Again, it comes down to the NHL organization and the developmental resources and culture they can offer and it comes down to the athlete. We can cite Kucherov, Radulov, Filatov, Buchnevich, whomever you want but the development path and timeline should be determined by the Leafs and Amirov.

 

[The Assclown]

As a fan of the team who drafted him, it feels really weird not to tie the hopes of the future of this team to a prospect. He should take all the time he needs in the KHL.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

Kucherov came over earlier than the guy who's name is on the thread could without a time machine.

We're talking about a player that is no longer WJC eligible coming over after their U20 season is over to play in a first class professional organization, not a 17 year old coming over to play junior in Red Deer.

What about Kravtsov? Same age, first class organization, not a 17 year old coming over to play junior in Red Deer.

Didn't go so well. I think Dubas is smart enough to leave Amirov in the KHL for another two seasons.

Agreed. Amirov wouldn’t even be coming over until his draft plus two season at the earliest if the Leafs were to expedite his move to North America as soon as next season, so we aren’t even talking about the CHL as a viable route other than to refute the idea that Russians who come over to North America somehow get ruined.

Again, it comes down to the NHL organization and the developmental resources and culture they can offer and it comes down to the athlete. We can cite Kucherov, Radulov, Filatov, Buchnevich, whomever you want but the development path and timeline should be determined by the Leafs and Amirov.

Just so we are clear, Buchnevich was 100% a KHL product. Didn't play in NA before the NHL. Maybe I didn't understand your post correctly.

 

[Pavel Buchnevich]

As a fan of the team who drafted him, it feels really weird not to tie the hopes of the future of this team to a prospect. He should take all the time he needs in the KHL.

Thank you. This is exactly as it should be.

Let Vacouver be the example of what not to do. They are poorly run, they feel like they need Podkolzin, whose not NHL ready, to immediately help their NHL team because it's poorly run and he's the best recent prospect. They will likely run into significant problems there because of it.

 

[3 Minute Minor]

Thank you. This is exactly as it should be.

Let Vacouver be the example of what not to do. They are poorly run, they feel like they need Podkolzin, whose not NHL ready, to immediately help their NHL team because it's poorly run and he's the best recent prospect. They will likely run into significant problems there because of it.

But nobody is suggesting putting Amirov straight in the NHL. They're talking about following the same path as guys like Sandin and Liljegren (1 with no pro experience, the other with sporadic games in SHL) that stepped into the AHL in their draft+1 year and were immersed in the Leafs program immediately.

Another example is the guy involved in the trade to draft Amirov, Kasperi Kapanen. He's actually a fantastic blueprint because they're actually pretty comparable players. Mislabelled as ultra-offensive players early but showed real promise as skilled 200 foot complimentary wingers. Kapanen was brought in at 19 and groomed for 2.5 years before making the full-time jump to the Leafs and when he did, he was more than ready to step into a significant role from day 1.

 

[Stephen]

What about Kravtsov? Same age, first class organization, not a 17 year old coming over to play junior in Red Deer.

Didn't go so well. I think Dubas is smart enough to leave Amirov in the KHL for another two seasons.



Just so we are clear, Buchnevich was 100% a KHL product. Didn't play in NA before the NHL. Maybe I didn't understand your post correctly.

My point is various developmental streams have worked for different Russian players and there’s no value in getting caught up in little nitpicks and rules of thumb for what works for whom.

I’m sure both the KHL and AHL routes could help Amirov develop his game and it’s up to the organization and player to figure out what is the best fit.

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]

Thank you. This is exactly as it should be.

Let Vacouver be the example of what not to do. They are poorly run, they feel like they need Podkolzin, whose not NHL ready, to immediately help their NHL team because it's poorly run and he's the best recent prospect. They will likely run into significant problems there because of it.

Interestingly, there is at least one poster here that says Leafs are poorly run because they have too much forward depth and there is no room for guys like Amirov to make the NHL team.

 

[BoredBrandonPridham]