F Nate Danielson - Brandon Wheat Kings, WHL (2023, 9th, DET)

[Bye Bye Blueston]

You've yet to explain which of those guys isn't panning out...

In Tampa his 1st round picks were connelly (6), nametsnikov (27), koekkoek (10), Drouin (3), deangelo (19), Bowden (27), and Foote (14). I’d rate 1 of those 7 a successful pick. Edit: vasilevski was great pick too. I missed him as he wasn’t their first first the year he was picked. So 2/8.

in Detroit he has made 7 1st round picks, 5 in the top 10. Seider and Raymond look to be hits but the jury is still out on the rest. I’m not saying they will all bust, but his record in Tampa doesn’t instill confidence that many of them will work out.

 

[TLEH]

In Tampa his 1st round picks were connelly (6), nametsnikov (27), koekkoek (10), Drouin (3), deangelo (19), Bowden (27), and Foote (14). I’d rate 1 of those 7 a successful pick.

in Detroit he has made 7 1st round picks, 5 in the top 10. Seider and Raymond look to be hits but the jury is still out on the rest. I’m not saying they will all bust, but his record in Tampa doesn’t instill confidence that many of them will work out.

Vasi?

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

In Tampa his 1st round picks were connelly (6), nametsnikov (27), koekkoek (10), Drouin (3), deangelo (19), Bowden (27), and Foote (14). I’d rate 1 of those 7 a successful pick.

in Detroit he has made 7 1st round picks, 5 in the top 10. Seider and Raymond look to be hits but the jury is still out on the rest. I’m not saying they will all bust, but his record in Tampa doesn’t instill confidence that many of them will work out.

The jury is still out on kids 20 and under?!

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

Vasi?

My bad. Edited post above.

The jury is still out on kids 20 and under?!

As it generally is.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

My bad. Edited post above.


As it generally is.

Cool. So what we've boiled this down to is that Yzerman's 2019 and 2020 picks were both hits, and that 2021 and beyond are too early to judge, but none have shown signs of bust potential, or even poor development, yet.

... I can definitely see your basis for criticism.

 

[ponder]

In Tampa his 1st round picks were connelly (6), nametsnikov (27), koekkoek (10), Drouin (3), deangelo (19), Bowden (27), and Foote (14). I’d rate 1 of those 7 a successful pick. Edit: vasilevski was great pick too. I missed him as he wasn’t their first first the year he was picked. So 2/8.

in Detroit he has made 7 1st round picks, 5 in the top 10. Seider and Raymond look to be hits but the jury is still out on the rest. I’m not saying they will all bust, but his record in Tampa doesn’t instill confidence that many of them will work out.

I agree his 1st round pick draft record with Tampa wasn't great, but focusing just on round 1 isn't a great way to evaluate the scouting of Stevie Y orgs - all rounds are relevant. The Lightning under Stevie Y made tonnes of GREAT picks. Kucherov in round 2, Point in round 3, Palat in round 7, Cirelli in round 3, Gudas in round 3, Colton in round 4, etc. The Lightning's drafting under Stevie Y built much of their core that went to the finals 4 times (winning 2 cups) over 8 years.

It is very early to evaluate his Red Wings picks - there's a lot of really promising ones, but only time will tell how they work out.

With all that being said, I'm not a big fan of the Danielson pick, I preferred Benson, Dvorsky and Sale at 9. But I don't really get criticizing his drafting in Tampa - everyone has plenty of misses, but he had a tonne of big hits, and his drafting overall was a huge part of turning Tampa into a borderline dynasty. Like, over the years he was GM of Tampa (2010-2018), how many teams drafted a better group than Kucherov, Vasi, Point, Palat, Cirelli, Gudas, Colton, Drouin, Namestnikov and DeAngelo? Very, very few teams matched that drafting, and he did that without overly high picks.

 

[Our Lady Peace]

In Tampa his 1st round picks were connelly (6), nametsnikov (27), koekkoek (10), Drouin (3), deangelo (19), Bowden (27), and Foote (14). I’d rate 1 of those 7 a successful pick. Edit: vasilevski was great pick too. I missed him as he wasn’t their first first the year he was picked. So 2/8.

in Detroit he has made 7 1st round picks, 5 in the top 10. Seider and Raymond look to be hits but the jury is still out on the rest. I’m not saying they will all bust, but his record in Tampa doesn’t instill confidence that many of them will work out.

For the record, Connolly in 2010 hardly counts as Yzerman joined the organization one month before the draft happened. He never had a chance to consult scouts throughout the year. To that point I don't count Gudas either.

What are the similarities between all those players above? They were all drafted out of the CHL. At some point, maybe they would hit on a non-CHLer if they took the chance?


His track record so far:

• Core of players through the draft (on cup winning roster): Kucherov, Vasilevskiy, Point, Cirelli, Palat, Joseph, Colton

• Acquired players through trade or signings (on cup winning roster): McDonagh, Gourde, Johnson

• GM of Team Canada for the 2007 IIHF World Championship, which they won.

• Appointed as executive director of Team Canada in October 2008 for the 2010 Winter Olympics. Team Canada won gold.

• Appointed as executive director of Team Canada in March 2012 for the 2014 Winter Olympics. Team Canada won another gold.

His track record speaks for itself and so far in Detroit the drafting has given damn good early returns post-draft considering only one pick has been in the top 5 (Raymond, 4th OA).

Everywhere he has had a hand in, they've won. He builds winning teams, irrespective of where players were drafted.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

In Tampa his 1st round picks were connelly (6), nametsnikov (27), koekkoek (10), Drouin (3), deangelo (19), Bowden (27), and Foote (14). I’d rate 1 of those 7 a successful pick. Edit: vasilevski was great pick too. I missed him as he wasn’t their first first the year he was picked. So 2/8.

in Detroit he has made 7 1st round picks, 5 in the top 10. Seider and Raymond look to be hits but the jury is still out on the rest. I’m not saying they will all bust, but his record in Tampa doesn’t instill confidence that many of them will work out.

So here is footage of four of Yzerman's and Draper's draft picks playing together at the tail end of the season...



Edvinsson and Kasper have been exceptional post draft. Wallinder is also a second rounder that has won post-season awards and looks very close. The other thing you will notice about most of these guys not named Raymond, is that they are big, fast and annoying to play against. Oh hey, look what Danielson has as a lot of his strengths, he very clearly fits with what they want to build which is important for some guys that fail. The best elements of his game seem to fit the personnel and system changes the Wings are building around.

 

[Mrfenn92]

He’s going to be a very good nhl player

 

[kcunac]

Danielson is definitely a tier above Dvorsky. I think he should’ve gone higher.

Not according to most/consolidated rankings.

Not saying Dvorsky is better, just saying he’s the comparable centre

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

That's fine, but if you are actually playing a game of checkers, trying to play chess may wind up making you lose.

Danielson isn't the worst pick ever or even in this draft, but I do think there were better picks. But what looks smart or dumb on draft day isn't always right.

Bedard said that Danielson was the toughest player he had to play against in the WHL.

In their 12 games head to head their records are 6 wins 6 losses.

Bedard had 21 points in 12 games.
Danielson had 16.

Who was the better pick than a 6’2” center with borderline elite speed, a great shot, great stick handling and a strong 2-way game?

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

the blind faith y'all have in yzerman always amazes me. he hits on 1 guy and everyone thinks he is infallible. smh..

We wings fans on this forum watch what he does closely and follow the team’s prospects very closely. The Wings prospect pool is arguably top 3 in the NHL, top 5 at worst. And he did that without a single lotto win.

 

[OgeeOgelthorpe]

In Tampa his 1st round picks were connelly (6), nametsnikov (27), koekkoek (10), Drouin (3), deangelo (19), Bowden (27), and Foote (14). I’d rate 1 of those 7 a successful pick. Edit: vasilevski was great pick too. I missed him as he wasn’t their first first the year he was picked. So 2/8.

in Detroit he has made 7 1st round picks, 5 in the top 10. Seider and Raymond look to be hits but the jury is still out on the rest. I’m not saying they will all bust, but his record in Tampa doesn’t instill confidence that many of them will work out.

Drouin isn’t a star but he’s not a miss.
DeAngelo is a douche but not a miss.
Namestnikov was a 27th overall pick and is a successful bottom 6 player. Not a miss.
Howden was a 27th overall who just won a cup. Not a star but not a miss.
Vasilevsky is a superstar.

So there’s…
Koekkoek who has dealt with injuries and mental health issues.
Connolly in Yzerman’s first ever draft. Injuries set him back. A ton.
Foote just wasn’t very good.

5/8 to me.

You talk about Yzerman like he’s the worst GM in the league and is Incapable of improving, which he clearly has over the years. You also ignore his late round wins like Palat, Cirelli, Point, Kucherov, FA signees like Johnson, Gourde. Winning deals for McDonagh (didn’t Howden and Namestnikov turn into McD AND Miller?). Druoin for Sergachev. Stealing Cernak from LA.

1/10 for how bad your trolling attempt is. Let’s get back to talking about Danielson.

 

[The Zetterberg Era]

We wings fans on this forum watch what he does closely and follow the team’s prospects very closely. The Wings prospect pool is arguably top 3 in the NHL, top 5 at worst. And he did that without a single lotto win.

I also think people aren't paying enough attention to how much of the organization he rolled over in general. Like you're saying that is really only to those following closely so I don't expect an out of market fan to necessarily know.

The holdovers in the organization player and prospect wise since 2019 are:

Dylan Larkin, Michael Rasmussen, Joe Veleno, Gustav Lindstrom, and long shot prospect Jared McIsaac. Seriously that is all Yzerman kept. He also massively rolled over the pro and area scouts, seems to have made decent choices by what we can see. This was going to be a tough build. I want them to be better, but the reality is it has been hard to argue massively against the decisions made. He preached patience and building through the draft while just getting incrementally better. We weren't gifted the lottery, this is Yzerman's best path forward. Call it blind faith, but when people dump on the job that Yzerman is doing with the Wings they don't offer a whole lot of solutions and point to situations where he should have done better. I have noticed that in most of those Yzerman is overrated posts.

I hope they progress forward, his seat isn't warm at all, I like the way he is layering depth at the NHL and prospect level. We need to get lucky and outkick some developmental curves with a couple of these guys, those are the option they are too good to put huge lottery odds on and we have had the worst luck in the NHL during the lottery era on top of that.

Getting Larkin, Kasper and Danielson down the middle seems like the big plan. Maybe you get lucky and Lombardi's absurd underlying offensive analytics does create a surprise center and you have the ability to play Danielson with Larkin or Kasper where they always take a dominant handed natural center draw. There is always talk about how safe the picks are, just like with Larkin. Being an elite skater through the middle of the ice is a pretty big thing, It makes it far easier to do controlled entries and back-check more effectively purely on skating ability.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

For the record, Connolly in 2010 hardly counts as Yzerman joined the organization one month before the draft happened. He never had a chance to consult scouts throughout the year. To that point I don't count Gudas either.

What are the similarities between all those players above? They were all drafted out of the CHL. At some point, maybe they would hit on a non-CHLer if they took the chance?


His track record so far:

• Core of players through the draft (on cup winning roster): Kucherov, Vasilevskiy, Point, Cirelli, Palat, Joseph, Colton

• Acquired players through trade or signings (on cup winning roster): McDonagh, Gourde, Johnson

• GM of Team Canada for the 2007 IIHF World Championship, which they won.

• Appointed as executive director of Team Canada in October 2008 for the 2010 Winter Olympics. Team Canada won gold.

• Appointed as executive director of Team Canada in March 2012 for the 2014 Winter Olympics. Team Canada won another gold.

His track record speaks for itself and so far in Detroit the drafting has given damn good early returns post-draft considering only one pick has been in the top 5 (Raymond, 4th OA).

Everywhere he has had a hand in, they've won. He builds winning teams, irrespective of where players were drafted.

FWIW, I dunno that you can fully absolve Yzerman of Connolly. I guess I'd have to research his involvement more.

It's hard to say, "He was only there for a month, he has no blame in Connolly's drafting", and then credit him for Seider. And he absolutely deserves some credit for Seider, as he flew out to watch him numerous times.

I think the fairest analysis of Yzerman's drafting is that he's shaped his current preferences based on the mistakes he made early in his career. It's pretty blatantly obviously that Yzerman likes well rounded players with good work ethic, good personality, and a high compete level... There's a good chance the issues with Drouin and Deangelo early in their careers shaped those preferences.

 

[Our Lady Peace]

FWIW, I dunno that you can fully absolve Yzerman of Connolly. I guess I'd have to research his involvement more.

It's hard to say, "He was only there for a month, he has no blame in Connolly's drafting", and then credit him for Seider. And he absolutely deserves some credit for Seider, as he flew out to watch him numerous times.

I think the fairest analysis of Yzerman's drafting is that he's shaped his current preferences based on the mistakes he made early in his career. It's pretty blatantly obviously that Yzerman likes well rounded players with good work ethic, good personality, and a high compete level... There's a good chance the issues with Drouin and Deangelo early in their careers shaped those preferences.

Yzerman was hired in September 2018, so he had the full year to scout Europe and see what Seider was about at the time. That's why I used the 2010 example.

 

[FriendlyGhost92]

Yzerman was hired in September 2018, so he had the full year to scout Europe and see what Seider was about at the time. That's why I used the 2010 example.

Yzerman was hired April 2019.

 

[deca guard]

the lottery should increase a teams odds of winning the more years that team has a bad record , but it doesnt so even though detroit had been bad for years we never got into top 3 . thusly yzerman never got a chance to draft a dream center . so he adjusted the yzerplan to the yzerfence and started drafting and signing two way centers capable of neutralizing opponants top centers , centers with wheels and big motors that patrol 200' = 200' OF HELL

 

[scoutman1]

In Tampa his 1st round picks were connelly (6), nametsnikov (27), koekkoek (10), Drouin (3), deangelo (19), Bowden (27), and Foote (14). I’d rate 1 of those 7 a successful pick. Edit: vasilevski was great pick too. I missed him as he wasn’t their first first the year he was picked. So 2/8.

in Detroit he has made 7 1st round picks, 5 in the top 10. Seider and Raymond look to be hits but the jury is still out on the rest. I’m not saying they will all bust, but his record in Tampa doesn’t instill confidence that many of them will work out.

Edvinsson is going to be right up with Seider...his pick of Cossa i thought was stupid as Wallstedt was there...i see nothing wrong with is Kasper pick...so who is the Jury out on beside Cossa...but still a long time yet for him to prove himself (i personally feel he was a bad pick) also that falls 80% on the head scout and scouts....Yzerman would put stock into his team im sure for scouting...so i would not put everything on him for the bad drafting in Tampa...he is final say but he wouldnt have the time to see the top guys in quantity like the scouts so he would put his trust in them.

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

I agree his 1st round pick draft record with Tampa wasn't great, but focusing just on round 1 isn't a great way to evaluate the scouting of Stevie Y orgs - all rounds are relevant. The Lightning under Stevie Y made tonnes of GREAT picks. Kucherov in round 2, Point in round 3, Palat in round 7, Cirelli in round 3, Gudas in round 3, Colton in round 4, etc. The Lightning's drafting under Stevie Y built much of their core that went to the finals 4 times (winning 2 cups) over 8 years.

It is very early to evaluate his Red Wings picks - there's a lot of really promising ones, but only time will tell how they work out.

With all that being said, I'm not a big fan of the Danielson pick, I preferred Benson, Dvorsky and Sale at 9. But I don't really get criticizing his drafting in Tampa - everyone has plenty of misses, but he had a tonne of big hits, and his drafting overall was a huge part of turning Tampa into a borderline dynasty. Like, over the years he was GM of Tampa (2010-2018), how many teams drafted a better group than Kucherov, Vasi, Point, Palat, Cirelli, Gudas, Colton, Drouin, Namestnikov and DeAngelo? Very, very few teams matched that drafting, and he did that without overly high picks.

Tampa was huge success in developing talent, certainly. But how much credit are you gonna give GM for drafting guy in mid-late rounds that he may have never seen?

 

[Bye Bye Blueston]

Drouin isn’t a star but he’s not a miss.
DeAngelo is a douche but not a miss.
Namestnikov was a 27th overall pick and is a successful bottom 6 player. Not a miss.
Howden was a 27th overall who just won a cup. Not a star but not a miss.
Vasilevsky is a superstar.

So there’s…
Koekkoek who has dealt with injuries and mental health issues.
Connolly in Yzerman’s first ever draft. Injuries set him back. A ton.
Foote just wasn’t very good.

5/8 to me.

You talk about Yzerman like he’s the worst GM in the league and is Incapable of improving, which he clearly has over the years. You also ignore his late round wins like Palat, Cirelli, Point, Kucherov, FA signees like Johnson, Gourde. Winning deals for McDonagh (didn’t Howden and Namestnikov turn into McD AND Miller?). Druoin for Sergachev. Stealing Cernak from LA.

1/10 for how bad your trolling attempt is. Let’s get back to talking about Danielson.

Drouin was huge miss where he was picked. Deangelo they gave away for little bc he was such a douche. Bowden is nice 4th liner, though, so if you think he is a hit explains why you are so excited about Danielson. I would want better than that from 9th pick this year but ymmv.

Edvinsson is going to be right up with Seider...his pick of Cossa i thought was stupid as Wallstedt was there...i see nothing wrong with is Kasper pick...so who is the Jury out on beside Cossa...but still a long time yet for him to prove himself (i personally feel he was a bad pick)

Edvinsson and kasper may end up as great picks. I don’t deny that. But you can’t seriously count them as great successes until they are successful nhl players.

 

[ricky0034]

Drouin was huge miss where he was picked. Deangelo they gave away for little bc he was such a douche. Bowden is nice 4th liner, though, so if you think he is a hit explains why you are so excited about Danielson. I would want better than that from 9th pick this year but ymmv.


Edvinsson and kasper may end up as great picks. I don’t deny that. But you can’t seriously count them as great successes until they are successful nhl players.

even though it mostly hasn't been in the NHL yet Edvinsson and Kasper's performance since being drafted is still a hell of a lot more compelling of an indicator of whether they'll be hits than whether or not some guys he drafted for another team last decade panned out

 

[raymond23]

Going after Yzerman's track record is quite the take

 

[raymond23]

the lottery should increase a teams odds of winning the more years that team has a bad record , but it doesnt so even though detroit had been bad for years we never got into top 3 . thusly yzerman never got a chance to draft a dream center . so he adjusted the yzerplan to the yzerfence and started drafting and signing two way centers capable of neutralizing opponants top centers , centers with wheels and big motors that patrol 200' = 200' OF HELL

Over the past 8 years we've been the second worst team in the league and we've gotten ONE pick in the top five during that time (Raymond at 4)

So many takes on the Red Wings organization recently and they consistently have very little knowledge on the topic. People do not realize how obscenely bad it was when Yzerman took over. And combine that with having league-worst lottery luck... good luck doing any better. Also - look at our division lol

Besides Seider and Raymond, this coming year will be the first that we really get to see picks drafted in the Yzerman-era on Detroit and Grand Rapids rosters. Take that for what its worth

 

[deca guard]

Over the past 8 years we've been the second worst team in the league and we've gotten ONE pick in the top five during that time (Raymond at 4)

So many takes on the Red Wings organization recently and they consistently have very little knowledge on the topic. People do not realize how obscenely bad it was when Yzerman took over. And combine that with having league-worst lottery luck... good luck doing any better. Also - look at our division lol

Besides Seider and Raymond, this coming year will be the first that we really get to see picks drafted in the Yzerman-era on Detroit and Grand Rapids rosters. Take that for what its worth

''Over the past 8 years we've been the second worst team in the league and we've gotten ONE pick in the top five during that time (Raymond at 4)''

exactly right there . that should not be and shows the farce of bettmans ''logic''

and yes people criticizing yzerman have no clue how empty this depth chart was when he took over