F Dmitri Rashevsky - Dynamo Moscow, KHL (2021, 146th, WPG)

[lanky]

Someone give me some perspective on how serious these numbers are. If he were to finish PPG over like 50 games where would that put him relative to others coming out of the KHL over the last little while?

That would be an interesting exercise - to see who the top 21 year old producers in recent KHL history have been. I expect Rashevsky is in elite company.

It's worth noting that one player is absolutely running away with the league point scoring title, and Rashevsky gets to play with him.

 

[MardyBum]

So far 21 points (13 goals) in 22 games. Turned 21 about 20 days ago.

Someone give me some perspective on how serious these numbers are. If he were to finish PPG over like 50 games where would that put him relative to others coming out of the KHL over the last little while?

EP is screwy at the moment so can't use that, but there's this at least :

Also 7th in the KHL in scoring at the moment.

 

[Atas2000]

That would be an interesting exercise - to see who the top 21 year old producers in recent KHL history have been. I expect Rashevsky is in elite company.

It's worth noting that one player is absolutely running away with the league point scoring title, and Rashevsky gets to play with him.

He doesn't get to play with him except on the PP.

 

[Atas2000]

EP is screwy at the moment so can't use that, but there's this at least :

View attachment 475372

Also 7th in the KHL in scoring at the moment.

There are problems with this as ususal with a standalone stat.

Kaprizov for example who I think is a good measuring stick as a goal scorer has had that stat line at 20 and 19 already. At 21 he was an established KHL top liner and the leagues top goal scorer. 30 goals in the KHL is pretty much the equivalent of 50 in the NHL. It's an elite number. Rashecskiy is pretty close to half of that by now and if he keeps it up till the end of the season he will deservingly get all the praise. But he has to get there first.

Same applies to Tarasenko. He was a PPG player at 20. A .5PPG player at 19.

Let's put it like that. That stat line of Rashevskiy is pretty impressive, but not unheard of. And for every Tarasenko and Kaprizov there is a Tkachev and a Nichushkin on that list. Rashevskiy still needs to prove consistency over more than a season. Also his playoffs performance will be interesting to observe.

 

[MardyBum]

There are problems with this as ususal with a standalone stat.

Kaprizov for example who I think is a good measuring stick as a goal scorer has had that stat line at 20 and 19 already. At 21 he was an established KHL top liner and the leagues top goal scorer. 30 goals in the KHL is pretty much the equivalent of 50 in the NHL. It's an elite number. Rashecskiy is pretty close to half of that by now and if he keeps it up till the end of the season he will deservingly get all the praise. But he has to get there first.

Same applies to Tarasenko. He was a PPG player at 20. A .5PPG player at 19.

Let's put it like that. That stat line of Rashecskiy is pretty impressive, but not unheard of/ And for every Tarasenko and Kaprizov there is a Tkachev and a Nichushkin on that list. Rashevskiy still needs to prove consistency over more than a season. Also his playoffs performance will be interesting to observe.

Yeah, I wanted to use Elite Prospects for U22 but there are site issues atm.

 

[Caser]

 

[GretzkytoLemieux]

What do people think is the value / NHL production/upside of a guy like Rashevskiy vs the younger Russians like Yurov and Miro or even Podkolzin/Svechkov?

 

[Atas2000]

What do people think is the value / NHL production/upside of a guy like Rashevskiy vs the younger Russians like Yurov and Miro or even Podkolzin/Svechkov?

Tough to compare him to younger guys. At their age Rashevskiy wasn't standing out much and they in turn have years to progress and overtake him.

Yurov, Chibrikov(it's funny you don't mention him. The guy is criminally underrated in NA. And that in a Rashevskiy thread while both are the same team's prospects) and maybe Svechkov are bigger talents just talent-wise. If they progress as planned they should overtake Rashevskiy.

To compare Rashevskiy I'd go with Podkolzin, Marchenko, Chinakhov, Denisenko.

Comparison to Denisenko is a good example of why Russians should develop in Russia.

Marchenko is not really progressing this year, but it might be a part of the team's struggles. Still, at this point Rashevskiy probably surpassed him.

Podkolzin is quite different in style. Rashevskiy is more of a finesse player. How that might translate to the NHL is the question. Podkolzin with his sheer strength and ability to play a 3rd liner role is doing okay, but he is not there yet.

Chinakhov might be the best comparison. Rashevskiy seems to have a higher hockey IQ. Chinakhov has a deadly shot. Otherwise they would be quite similar as assets for a coach. Offensive minded wingers with good to great goal scoring ability on paper.

How the real thing will look like depends on too many factors. When and where Rashevskiy might come in with the Jets, relationship with the coaching staff, how he adapts to NA and NA gme. He sure looks like he has the tools to at least give it a serious shot.

 

[GretzkytoLemieux]

Yeah I don’t get to watch much KHL as most of the games happen during morning/work hours where I live but I love watching Team Russia at the u18s and u20 levels.

It’s interesting what you say about Russian players developing in Russia as it seems there are many recent (and past) examples of players who stay until they become difference makers in the KHL having success in the NHL- almost more frequently then the highly touted prospects at draft time (which makes logical sense).

I loved watching the Miroshnichenko-Svechkov-Yurov line combo at the u18s. Yurov impressed me the most overall as a player of some genius, but I also loved Svechkov’s ability to do all the little things and make his teammates better and Miroshnichenko’s physicality and ability to get to the dangerous areas to fire shots. I could see any of them as potential high level NHLers or stars.

Chibrikov was great too but on a different role (now that I think back though he was quite a play driver and energy guy with the C in the u18s recently). You are saying Rashevskiy is as physical (in his own way) and dynamic like Chibrikov ?

As far as current NHLers (Rus or not) who would be good comparison(s) stylistically for Rashevskiy ?

 

[Atas2000]

Yeah I don’t get to watch much KHL as most of the games happen during morning/work hours where I live but I love watching Team Russia at the u18s and u20 levels.

It’s interesting what you say about Russian players developing in Russia as it seems there are many recent (and past) examples of players who stay until they become difference makers in the KHL having success in the NHL- almost more frequently then the highly touted prospects at draft time (which makes logical sense).

I loved watching the Miroshnichenko-Svechkov-Yurov line combo at the u18s. Yurov impressed me the most overall as a player of some genius, but I also loved Svechkov’s ability to do all the little things and make his teammates better and Miroshnichenko’s physicality and ability to get to the dangerous areas to fire shots. I could see any of them as potential high level NHLers or stars.

Chibrikov was great too but on a different role (now that I think back though he was quite a play driver and energy guy with the C in the u18s recently). You are saying Rashevskiy is as physical (in his own way) and dynamic like Chibrikov ?

As far as current NHLers (Rus or not) who would be good comparison(s) stylistically for Rashevskiy ?

Chibrikov and Rashevskiy are again very different in style. Rashevskiy is significantly taller, but an extreme lightweight with 165lbs(he might have gained a bit since then, but still I am also judging from watching him). Chibrikov is a heavier while being three inches shorter. That is where I see a possible problem for Rashevskiy. He needs to add muscle and keep his mobility and playing style to have any chances in the NHL. Right now he is not physical at all and relies heavily on his skating and stickhandling, but even in the recent NT games it was obvious he won't do much in a more physical environment. Chibrikov plays a bit above his height and weight. He is still that smallish, speedy winger, but he does throw himself into some battles and succeds. The problem for Chibrikov will be to play above high height on all upcoming levels otherwise height might become an issue. Nowadays those smallish guys have some success in the NHL, so it is not a deal breaker.

As for comparisons(and they tend to be to a quite flattering example) how about Kyle Connor? If Rashevskiy can reach that benchmark he'd probably be all that I'd wish him to be, but I see a lot of similarities. The goal scoring touch, the positional awareness to be in the right spot to score those goals, the quick hands. Even if it is a bit gutsy to compare Rashevskiy to a guy who finished 25th in scoring last season and is 4th in this one.

 

[Garl]

Yeah I don’t get to watch much KHL as most of the games happen during morning/work hours where I live but I love watching Team Russia at the u18s and u20 levels.

It’s interesting what you say about Russian players developing in Russia as it seems there are many recent (and past) examples of players who stay until they become difference makers in the KHL having success in the NHL- almost more frequently then the highly touted prospects at draft time (which makes logical sense).

I loved watching the Miroshnichenko-Svechkov-Yurov line combo at the u18s. Yurov impressed me the most overall as a player of some genius, but I also loved Svechkov’s ability to do all the little things and make his teammates better and Miroshnichenko’s physicality and ability to get to the dangerous areas to fire shots. I could see any of them as potential high level NHLers or stars.

Chibrikov was great too but on a different role (now that I think back though he was quite a play driver and energy guy with the C in the u18s recently). You are saying Rashevskiy is as physical (in his own way) and dynamic like Chibrikov ?

As far as current NHLers (Rus or not) who would be good comparison(s) stylistically for Rashevskiy ?

Who?

 

[GretzkytoLemieux]

Panarin, Kaprizov, Radulov, Dadonov, and I might be missing a couple more.. for recents.

 

[Garl]

Panarin, Kaprizov, Radulov, Dadonov, and I might be missing a couple more.. for recents.

Hmm, first of all, thats a big age difference, Rads is 1986, Kaprizov is 1997. Secondly, Radulov was developed in North America, and made an impact in NHL after playing in the Q. Then, he decided to move to KHL, but that's not where he developed, he came to the KHL as a star player and was a superstar in KHL for almost a decade.

 

[MaxV]

We are back to this discussion again?

Ideal development for Russian prospect is staying home AND getting significant playing time in KHL.

Unfortunately a huge percentage of Russian prospects get either one or the other (in CHL), rarely both.

If you look at pretty much all top Russian NHL players, you will see a trend in their past, significant KHL experience at early age with mid-to-bottom table teams:

Panarin - Vityaz
Tarasenko and Zaitsev - Sibir
Kaprizov, Sorokin, Bob and Orlov - Novokuznetsk
Buchnevich - Severstal
Kuznetsov and Nichushkin - Traktor
Zub - Amur
Dadonov - Traktor and Donetsk
Gusev - Amur and Yugra

BTW, isnt it wonderful that Novokuznetsk is no longer around? Just pure joy.

 

[SoundAndFury]

BTW, isnt it wonderful that Novokuznetsk is no longer around? Just pure joy.

They are in the VHL where they belong. Not like any of the guys you mentioned actually spent meaningful time in the KHL playing for them. Orlov was 19 when he left, Bob 21, Sorokin 19 and Kaprizov 19.

 

[Caser]

Primary assist here:

 

[Atas2000]

They are in the VHL where they belong. Not like any of the guys you mentioned actually spent meaningful time in the KHL playing for them. Orlov was 19 when he left, Bob 21, Sorokin 19 and Kaprizov 19.

They belong in the KHL.

 

[wings5]

We are back to this discussion again?

Ideal development for Russian prospect is staying home AND getting significant playing time in KHL.

Unfortunately a huge percentage of Russian prospects get either one or the other (in CHL), rarely both.

If you look at pretty much all top Russian NHL players, you will see a trend in their past, significant KHL experience at early age with mid-to-bottom table teams:

Panarin - Vityaz
Tarasenko and Zaitsev - Sibir
Kaprizov, Sorokin, Bob and Orlov - Novokuznetsk
Buchnevich - Severstal
Kuznetsov and Nichushkin - Traktor
Zub - Amur
Dadonov - Traktor and Donetsk
Gusev - Amur and Yugra

BTW, isnt it wonderful that Novokuznetsk is no longer around? Just pure joy.

This is a good point, interesting to see that the big clubs haven't developed players nearly as well.

 

[SoundAndFury]

They belong in the KHL.

Because you said so? They made the playoffs 0 times, never had a winning record, actually lost more than twice as many games as they won, not to mention the arena issues the last 3 seasons. Unless you are willing to fund them, no, they do not belong in the KHL. If anything, they are a perfect fit for the VHL, that's what it was created for.

This is a good point, interesting to see that the big clubs haven't developed players nearly as well.

Yes, they only developed guys like Shestyorkin, Gavrikov, Kucherov

In any case, almost everyone on the list ended up playing for SKA/CSKA eventually.

 

[wings5]

Because you said so? They made the playoffs 0 times, never had a winning record, actually lost more than twice as many games as they won, not to mention the arena issues the last 3 seasons. Unless you are willing to fund them, no, they do not belong in the KHL. If anything, they are a perfect fit for the VHL, that's what it was created for.

Yes, they only developed guys like Shestyorkin, Gavrikov, Kucherov

In any case, almost everyone on the list ended up playing for SKA/CSKA eventually.

No one said nobody was developed on the big clubs . It was just that previously , talented kids would stay within their childhood hockey schools and be given more KHL opportunities .There will be more players soon coming from bigger clubs now though because these days most of the best Russian prospects go to the bigger clubs even if the playing time situation at the KHL level isn’t ideal .

 

[MaxV]

Yes, they only developed guys like Shestyorkin, Gavrikov, Kucherov

Top KHL teams are veteran-driven teams, with limited patience for youngsters.

Young players need playing time at top level. They need to make mistakes and learn from them.

 

[SoundAndFury]

Top KHL teams are veteran-driven teams, with limited patience for youngsters.

Young players need playing time at top level. They need to make mistakes and learn from them.

I mean yes and no. If you look at CSKA in their recent peek, who were those veterans, from the top of your head? SKA never even really had some kind of outstanding "veteran core" as such. Loko would be another example, although I guess that depends if you consider them a top team these days. Ak Bars this season is built all-around their young guys. So there is definitely no reason to try some kind of all-fitting narrative here.

Some teams, like Ak Bars of the early KHL days, Dinamo Moscow or Magnitka - sure. But one of the things I hate the most about these boards, and NA - Europe hockey relationships in general, is how easily people who have very little first-hand information are led into believing these kinds of stereotypes or oversimplifications that are wrong half the time.

And the players listed just prove it. Panarin arrived to SKA when he was 21. Kaprizov to SYu when he was 19. And they had no problem establishing themselves. The same goes for the guy in whose thread we are actually posting now.

 

[Atas2000]

Because you said so? They made the playoffs 0 times, never had a winning record, actually lost more than twice as many games as they won, not to mention the arena issues the last 3 seasons. Unless you are willing to fund them, no, they do not belong in the KHL. If anything, they are a perfect fit for the VHL, that's what it was created for.

Because they, unlike many other teams have the hockey school. It don't care how many games they won. I only care about the development of russian hockey and for that they shuould be in and some other teams out.

 

[MaxV]

I mean yes and no. If you look at CSKA in their recent peek, who were those veterans, from the top of your head? SKA never even really had some kind of outstanding "veteran core" as such. Loko would be another example, although I guess that depends if you consider them a top team these days. Ak Bars this season is built all-around their young guys. So there is definitely no reason to try some kind of all-fitting narrative here.

Some teams, like Ak Bars of the early KHL days, Dinamo Moscow or Magnitka - sure. But one of the things I hate the most about these boards, and NA - Europe hockey relationships in general, is how easily people who have very little first-hand information are led into believing these kinds of stereotypes or oversimplifications that are wrong half the time.

And the players listed just prove it. Panarin arrived to SKA when he was 21. Kaprizov to SYu when he was 19. And they had no problem establishing themselves. The same goes for the guy in whose thread we are actually posting now.

Panarin is a bad example. He already had a near PPG season with Vityaz. He already proved his quality before SKA.

Look, there are exceptions, I admit, but generally I feel that mid-to-lower-table KHL teams offer a better opportunity for young players to develop. There is a bigger margin for error there, young players won't get relagated to 4th line or to the press box after a bad stretch of games. There isn't this huge pressure to always be perfect.

To this day I maintain, and I know that some of you guys will disagree, the worst decision Maxim Chudinov ever made was leave Severstal for SKA. Look at the year he had in 11-12. 35 points in 52 games. Was he too aggressive? Yes. Was he making mistakes? Yes. But, he was learning and developing. He goes to SKA and they put shackles on him, make him into a conservative defensive guy. And thats what he became, a conservative defensive KHL defender.

 

[Caser]